Reflectix is an flexible plastic insulation product. It looks like bubble wrap with a layer of silver mylar attached. Sunshades for car windshields are made of the same material. It's sold in rolls by Home Depot and Lowe's. Some pop-up and hybrid owners use it to insulate their bunk ends and vinyl areas. So I copied their idea to help make my trailer more comfortable. I cut 4 pieces of Reflectix to cover the inside of the vinyl that connects the two parts of the roof of my trailer. The two longer pieces are 100" X 14" and the other two are 48" X 14". They are held in place by friction. When not in use they are rolled up and stored under the benches. I think most Compact Jr, Compact II, and Trails West Campster owners could benefit from the same mod. I find it helps a great deal with keeping in heat in the winter and ac in the hot months. I also plan to cut pieces to match the windows of my trailer. These would be held in place with Velcro at the corners. Would be less for insulation and more for privacy and keeping out sunlight.

I've posted this mod before and am redoing it to help rebuild the archives.
Tom Trostel

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/ViewPhoto?...0373&p=70829465

The stuff is used in the Scamp and, I think, the Casita. According to the Scamp literature the double layer is R15 (beats me how they arived at that) but...it works very well in our Scamp preventing solar heat build-up in the summer. Little experience in the cold tho.

There is no sign of it's use by the factory on my 2000 Casita.
A very similar product (if not the same) is available from auto parts stores. It is meant for sound reduction and used under the hood, on firewalls, between the door skin and upholstered panel, and under the trunk lid too name just a few. I used it to line the aluminum diamond-plate enclosure for the generator on Nuestra Casita's tongue. 3M General Trim Adhesive (Part No. 08088) could be used to glue it to foam panels to make even more efficient insulation. For window use, it could be simply tucked behind the blinds (our blinds have velcro strips which prevent them swinging while underway).
For our purpose, we used 3M Super Trim Adhesive yellow (Part No. 08090) because of it's heat resistance.
[/U]Kurt[U] & Ann K.

I slid this stuff as far up between the walls of my Burro as I could, and lined the closets and cabinets and floor bins with it.
It seems a little warmer so far, but too soon to tell. It's quieter anyway.
My Burro had no insulation.

I believe Casita relies on the foam backing on the carpet as additional insulation, rather than Reflectix.

Scamp is apparently less than forthcoming about the R15 value of Reflectix -- At some time in the past, I was reading some Reflectix literature and it said something like "can bring a standard house wall up to R15" or words to that general effect -- I doubt that the Reflectix alone is more than R3-5.

That said, however, I can attest that if one leaves one's Scamp parked in the sun all day, it will hld the heat inside for a looong time at nite before it cools down, which is why I always try to park in shade or where I can put a tarp over a line between a couple of trees.

Found a Link and on a masonry basement wall with a 1" space it has R-3.30 and with a 2" space it is R-4.24. In an attic, as a reflective barrier, they make this statement:

"What about R-values? Reflectix® performs as a radiant barrier in this use rather than as an insulation. Therefore, we make no R-value claims for this application."

In a past life, I was hired to evaluate the claims made by Reflectix by a building supply retailer. In the process, I found that most of what they claim is a gross extrapolation from very favorable test conditions. While it's true that reflective air film(s) (the basic effect behind the product) can procuce good effective R-values, the average real world application of the product won't. The State of California has a very technically competent Energy Commission that has denied Reflectix's claims in virtually every area, to the point that, as far as I know, it isn't certified for any application in new or remodel construction. And that includes the assemblies listed in the Reflectix brochure that Pete has listed the link to.

Of course, this doesn't preclude them from continuing to claim almost anything in their Point of Sale displays or brochures.

As Pete points out, above, because it takes an air space adjacent to Reflectix to achieve any useful R-value, it's use in our trailers may not deliver as much as we would hope. On the other hand, there is some benefit to the product. In an otherwise uninsulated trailer, applying something with an R-3 or so R-value to an R-2 wall might make a noticeable difference. While the reduction in heat loss may be modest, the reduction or elimination of condensation, for example, might make it all worth it.

I agree with Bill that the application in our trailers is unlike the intended application, and is unlikely to be very effective as general wall insulation. Aside from the reflective properties, the material is bunch of bubbles, and thus must be somewhat effective as insulation to limit heat loss by conduction. I do not see how it could possibly be as effective as a foam intended for insulation, and those materials typically achieve no more than R5 per inch, so I doubt that a couple layers of Reflectix would be as good as even R3, but I'm only guessing.

I think this material is used on molded trailer walls primarily because it is a somewhat flexible sheet, while other insulation materials are either too rigid to fit to the curved trailer walls (such as polystyrene foam), or not capable of holding together as a surface covering (such as fiberglass batting). The mechanical properties also make it workable for the window shade and removable panel applications that Tom described.

I have not yet had the opportunity to see the internal construction of a Bigfoot trailer, but as I understand their literature, they use expanded polystyrene foam board, with an insulation value of R8:

Since Bigfoot seems to be the only current molded fiberglass trailer maker which claims any suitability for winter operation, their choice seems particularly relevant.

While it is a motorhome - not a trailer - the EarthRoamer body construction is molded fiberglass and it, like the Bigfoot , uses foam for insulation and is intended for cold-weather use. By the way, I think one of their bodies on a suitable frame would make a very interesting molded fiberglass travel trailer.

Again, mechanical properties are important, and ability to be rolled up makes it particularly suitable for Tom's application, where the stiff foam insulation would not work.

Brian,
Haven't been inside the walls yet, but you can see inside the roof here, just scroll down.

Brian - See my posts under mods - Begin the Begin - where I used the polypropylene - rated at R12 in this application.

Bill, off the insulation topic, but below is a photo of Nevin Lescher's door holder solution -- the strut stays attached -- when the door is closed, the strut keeps it closed and when open, it stays that way. I've lost the narrative that Nevin had with it as he had to do some critical measurements to match an exactly correct strut for both the open and closed positions.

Thanks for the pointer, Jackie - I had not yet had a chance to look at your very interesting and well illustrated posts.

The Microfoil looks like a potentially good alternative to both Ensolite and Reflectix, depending on specific application requirements. Just like Reflectix, the Microfoil will have much lower effective insulation value without the air gap, so I certainly wouldn't expect it to work as R12, but I would guess it would be better than the same thickness of Reflectix.

Jackie, was your R12 value intended to refer to Tom's application, or the wall lining application of your Ensolite replacement?

The following is from the Microfoil website. I hope it answers your question, as I understand it.

"The microfoil insulation has a stand alone r-value of 14.4. When you start
to incorporate a trapped airspace with the material, you can really increase
your r-value. On the average 1" of trapped air space has about a r-4 value,
for each additional inch added to the trapped airspace the r-value increases
4 fold, from 1 to 6 inches of trapped air, after 6" you will get diminishing
returns. For instance 14.4 + (6" of trapped air x 4) your r-value would be
38.4 (roof downward). In a horizontal wall application the r-value would
equate to 10.2 + ( 3" of trapped air x4) your r-value will be r-22.2. You
have to under stand the insulation is a directional material. In different
applications you have a directional r-value. Plus you have to count the
trapped airspace to get a over all total. "

That's the description which I read from the Microfoil site, but I am suspicious of the "stand alone" value: I think they are assuming it is not in contact with other materials on both the warm and cold sides, but has at least some space on the foil side, for the reflective effect to take place. I can't image any 1/4" thick foam has a resistance to thermal conduction of R14.4; for that thickness R1 to R2 is believeable. If this material were really that effective, it would be R57.6 per inch, and it could just be used in two to four 1/4" layers to handle any wall or attic requirement instead of arranging for air spaces.

The material does look promising for both of the applications we are discussing; I just don't think either one matches the base conditions that led to the manufacturer's "stand alone" insulation value claim.

Folks,

I suppose this might fall under the heading of "don't believe everything you see on the Internet". The Microfoil site, for instance, would have us believe that air ("R-4 per inch") has a better R-value than fiberglass insulation (R-3.5 or so per inch). This just ain't so.

And, unfortunately, air space diminishing returns begin at far less thicknesses than 6". The bugaboo here is thermal convection. When you have a thermal gradient across an air space, the warm/cold difference causes convection, effectively moving heat from the warm side to the cold side. This drastically reduces the effective R-value of the space. The effect actually begins at under an inch, which is why dual pane windows seldom have glass separations over 3/4". This is the reason why super high efficiency insulated glass is triple glazed..

As I mentioned before, some insulation is certainly better than nothing. And doubtless, some forms of insulation are more appropriate for a given application than others. But whether you're getting what you pay for, that is the question.

Can you source sheet polypropelene material? All I can find is electrical insulation. Thanks!

Umm, maybe too many "e"s and not enuf "y"s ??? :76 Try also "visqueen" which is what the construction trades call sheet poly.

In the British Visqueen product list (all I found readily in Google), all of the products appear to be thin membranes, rather insulating foams of any thickness. They are also probably all polyethylene, rather than polypropylene. who knows, maybe there's whole different product line in the U.S.

By the way, I had never heard of "visqueen" before today - it's just called "poly" around here are far as I know.

Pete's just showing his ... maturity, there. Years ago, poly film, especially in the construction trades, was likely made by Visqueen. As more manufacturers got into the act, it was less likely to be, actually, "Visqueen", but the name stuck, like we call pull-up tissues "Kleenex". Not so much any more. More on Visqueen here.

Sometime you just gotta be old to know stuff.

In a former life I evaluated various insulated packaging for the shipment of drugs to hospitals and distribution warehouses (yes... I did drugs for many years!). Polystyrene (the stuff in inexpensive foam coolers etc.) foam has a R value of around 3 per inch and polyurethane foam about R7 (the stuff in high quality coolers and better refrigerators). The insulating quality of the polyurethane foam is due to the size of the bubbles in the foam and due to the use of freon in it's production. I found by thermocouple measurement of temp. changes in a hot box (this was aroung 55C as I recall). Urethane foam with aluminized mylar bonded to both sides performed 3-4 times better than the polysytrene foam as a packaging insulator.

As for usage in a fiberglass trailer? Probably could be done but would be expensive and difficult to use

Lots of good information!

The "stuff in inexpensive foam coolers" is polystyrene foam, usually molded from beads, but better polystyrene insulation such as Styrofoam® is extruded. The extruded foams have better structure, and thus higher R-values; for instance, most Styrofoam® products are R-5 per inch. And no, this isn't an ad for Dow products...

Looking for background information for this discussion, I found that there is a Insulation.org web site. Obvious, in hindsight...

Here is some info on R values.

It's interesting how, when we discuss Reflectix in the context of other materials, we keep coming up against this credibility thing.

BTW, I've always tended to think in terms of U-factor, the reciprical of R-value. The units of R-value is square foot * deg (dt) * hour/ Btu. So just what is that mean ? U-factor seems much more intuitive. Mike's R-8.85, above, would become

0.116 Btu/hour per square foot per deg(difference across the assembly) To use this, if you had 100 square feet of that R-value and it was 70 deg inside and 30 deg outside you'd have

0.116 x 100 x 40 = 464 Btu/hr loss through the surface(s).

Windows, doors, surfaces with higher or lower R-values need to be area weighed, but this is the general idea.

Now, isn't that easier?

The following is a government site for insulatiing materials... government insulation facts The highest for the urethane foam is R9/inch which is accomplished using a reflective foil in addition to the insulation. Performing a internet search on the topic gave me quite a few references to sprayed on urethane insulation products which could certainly have application to RV insulation. The part that is confusing is the reflection of radient (infra-red radiation) and conduction (transfer of molecular energy). The bubble foil works great reflecting radient energy like heat from the sun but doesn't work worth a flip preventing the transfer of energy from one molecule to another (it could if thre were a vacuum in the bubble... I actually evaluated a packaging constructed like this and it works great BUT you don't want to know the price$$$

Alright, lets see if I can make practical sense of all this reflectix data.

1. It is over-rated as an insulator but better than nothing.
2. It's greatest value is as protection against condensation.
3. It's cheap, and it works as a placebo.

Do I have it right?

=============================================
Alright, lets see if I can make practical sense of all this reflectix data.

1. It is over-rated as an insulator but better than nothing.
2. It's greatest value is as protection against condensation.
3. It's cheap, and it works as a placebo.

Do I have it right?
=============================================
I think I would add a #4. works great as far as reflecting radient energy which is extremely important in the summer to prevent solar heating inside the trailer (for us this is probably more important than it's use as an insulator since we live in the SE).

From a practical standpoint the trailer is slow to warm up in the sun during the summer and the walls are noticably cool/cold when temperatures get down into the 20's in the winter.

so with all of this great information, what is a good insulator for the trailer?
mine has no insulation, and i'd like to add something to the walls to make those cold nights a bit nicer. it would be nice if the insulation had a nice look to it as well.
is there anything out there that is affordable, looks nice, and actually works?

Erik -- I saw this thread several months ago. It seemed, and still does, like the real-life issue is circled, circled and circled, but no one went in for the kill.

We had a Compact Jr many moons ago, with no insulation. It was a pain with all the condensate dripping. The only way to help that situation was to pop the top up and leave all the screen covers open. Worked fair in fair weather, but when it was cold that was another story.

Moved up to a 1960 Streamline. All aluminum construction with spun fiberglass house type insulation between inner and outer skins. The ribs also had some thick rubber tape to squelch the cold bleed-through.

Next a 1970 Avion, similar to the Streamline, but the insulation is poured in foam.

Now a 1984 Scamp with the ensolite stuff.

From practical experience, the Streamline was best, followed by Avion, followed by Scamp with Compact getting a zero. I expected the Avion to be better than the Streamline, but it apparently didn't have the rubber tape on the ribs, because it drips profusely at the ribs. It also seems to be quite a bit harder to heat.

Interestingly I consider the Scamp to be just marginally below the Avion. The ensolite does a pretty good job. The real problem with it is it's crinkly surface. In our neck of the woods, western Washington, the mildew gets into those crinkles and it is a real problem cleaning it up. Clorox does a good job, but does me in, in the process. A smooth surface that you could just wipe down would be great.

I would be very aprehensive about the 'rat fur'. I don't know how you would clean the stuff. To put this in context, my beautiful wife was born and raised in Viet Nam. She insists on cooking three square meals a day, complete with saute'd vege slices and meats in fish sauce and all the rest of the culinary delights from that country. Without a doubt this contributes overwhelmingly to the growing of mildew and other baddies in our Scamp.

So what might not work out for us would be fine for another.

Check out the blue camper foam sold at Wal-Mart and others. It is flexible, fairly inexpensive and sold in sheets 2ft X 6ft. I remember a roll being priced about $7. I would expect the blue could be changed to something else with a good latex paint. If you wanted more shine, perhaps enamel could be applied over the latex. You'd just have to try it. If it works out good, let us know. If it doesn't work out, let us know.

We are a knowing goup on this forum. We just don't know it all, but would like to know more.

You may also want to check out these websites from our Helpful-Links page:
Ensolite

This is not from personal experience, but maybe someday it will be. I hope.

BIGFOOT rated for 30 below camping. Now you're talking.

http://www.bigfootrv.com/traveltrailers/index.html

I pushed the relectex up as far as I could in between my Burro walls,closet and upper and lower cabinets. Camped last fall for a week. It got fairly cold and with the ceramic heater felt ok. The rear windows radiated cold though so I cut some refectex to wrap around the sides and back. Excellent! very cozy, but I couldn't see out.
My guess is that would do for us down to about 20-25 degrees, any lower than that I couldn't pay the wife to camp.

We have camped in Yellowstone in July with night temps down to 32 without insulation and it was fine with just the ceramic heater. I guess that wind has a lot to do with it too.

Hmmm!!! Wonder what that means. People camp all the time in cold weather. Proper clothing and a good sleeping bag are the important things. A good snow cave will maintain about 40°F. Therefore I would guess that at -30° the inside of the Bigfoot will be close to 40°
Now I'll go hide.

Foam insulation between the walls ( looks like about 1 1/2 inches or so), tanks are in heated insulated area, thermopane windows and 30000 BtU heater.

Might be more like 70 degrees.

Granted they are much heavier than a regular egg ( and pricier) .
Casita people seem to be happy , I remember Charles was comfortable and he's a big winter camping buff.

I don't recall any Scamp owners talking about it.

It doesn't really matter though, the wife would never go in that weather.

According to both Bigfoot and various owner reports, the insulation is 1.5" expanded polystyrene foam bead board. The Bigfoot specs claim R8, presumably for the complete wall or ceiling structure, since 1.5" bead board will be something less than R7.5.

I have slept in a tent trailer with overnight temperatures just hitting freezing, with no heat source (we had one, just didn't bother starting it...), so I agree that usable and warm are not the same thing.

Our Boler B1700 has the typical insulating lining for that model, which is a lighter (and probably much less effective) foam than the classic Ensolite. A 1500 W heater did not need full power to keep it warm enough at just below freezing, but the temperature was quite uneven and I would certainly prefer much more insulation (plus better windows like those current Bigfeet).

I just ran across your posting on insulation.

I have a '87 Casita and Christmas of '04 my brother-in-law moved to Muleshoe, TX. I took a week vacation to go and wire his new 60x80' aluminum fabrication and paint shop. The weather turned COLD! , 6 to 10 degrees daytime. He did not have a house yet, so I stayed in my Casita. The cold would flow through the walls and drift across the bed like the windows were open. I had a electric heater going and the gas range burner on low ( carbon monoxide detector installed ) to add some heat to the interior. The cold would still flow across the bed, so I had to run a fan mounted near the ceiling to mix the cold and warm air. This stopped the cold drifting across the bed.

My brother-in-law was so appreciative he offered to do a make over on my Casita. So, Christmas of '05 we stripped the upper cabinets and lower cabinets out, except for the refg section and sink/range section. We took all the old foam backed carpet out and installed the foil double bubble insulation on the walls and them covered it with auto upholstery carpet and a outside paint job. It looks like a new rig again and I'm exceted to see how much difference the foil double bubble is going to make. I will test it in the hot summer heat , I hate COLD and hope to never be in those low tempts again.

Just had to share,

don

Welcome, Don!

There's only one thing we like better than to hear about modifications and fix-ups and that's SEEING them. Do you have any pictures? Why don't you start your own thread HERE. Simply click "New Topic" on the upper right hand side and tell and show us what you've done to your '87.

I have not taken pictures. But, I will get some in the near future and post them.

Thanks for your reply,
don

In about Oct 2004 we stopped to visit friends over night in a place called East Barriere Lake about an hour from Kamlops,B.C. Where they live is fairly high above the river valley and and the temp. dropped to almost -20F (-8C) and it frozze the water hose and our sink drain etc. Most of the night I kept a small cube ceramic heater going and we were quit comfortable.
Our Boler is lined with Ensolite and I was impressed with the fact that it kept the inside reasonable. Also there was not a great amount of condensation other than some frost at the bottom of the windows. Desipte what some people may think about Ensolite, I think it does a pretty fair job of insulating.

Con,

I have been reading about the insulation of the Boler and I'm very impressed with the construction and the insulation of this maker. I wish the Casita was constructed as well. As I said in my post I froze in mine at 6C degrees, I had ice on the inside window seals. Hopefully the new foil double bubble will help, but I know it is not as good as a foam board insulation.

I live in the Texas Hill Country for a reason.

don

Don,
I have yet to see a Casita up here in British Coliumbia so I can not make a constructive comment on the good or bad points of them. Before we bought our Boler we borrowed a friends TRIPLE E ( looks almost identical to the Trillium) It was lined with Ensolite the same as the Bolers. If I was going to replace the lining I would certainly redo it with Ensolte as it is allready textured, colored and acts a sound proofing and insulation. I don't know the actual R value of it but it sure would not be fun in the cold without it. All that been said, anything that is light weight and acts a air barrier and sound proofing is better then next to nothing.
There has been some suppliers of the Ensolite added to the "Helpful Links" pages if you want to pursue that type of liner. I seem to remember a thread before the site was hacked about a few people who replaced thier Ensolite liners.
Donna might be some help there, Where are you Donna?
I was lucky, Our Ensolite is almost mint condition and the people we bought the Boler from had found some replacement "T" mouldings for the joints.
Keep us posted on how yours works out and what problems you run into.

I look around on the net concerning the construction of the Boler and I don't think it is the one I'm think about. I saw a cut throught section of one of the trailers, it had fiberglass top / 1/2" plywood / thick white foam insulation / plywood / fiberglass construction. This one sure looked solid. The person could walk on top of this trailer.

How quick I forget. It was some where in this link.

That's a current-style Bigfoot, not Boler. The insulation is the 1.5" expanded polystyrene foam board which is referred to in the Bigfoot specs.

The post with the cross-section photo may have been lost in the hacking; although I thought it was newer than that, I couldn't find it in a quick search.

It's on my site, Bigfoot Mods (below), under Odds & Ends.

Here's the link from the Helpful-Links page to Ensolite

Sorry, can't help with anything from the pre-hack, although there MAY be something in the Legacy Posts...anyone looking will just have to do a bit of searching.

Do you think there would be an added benefit if a boler owner were to double-up on the layer of ensolite? Alec

While I am not convinced that Reflectix would double in effectiveness with double layers, I am confident that foam insulation such as Ensolite would. There would be an additional advantage if the seams were not aligned of better covering imperfect spots.

One concern would be finishing around windows: in my Boler, the inner window flanges clamp onto the trailer wall through the insulation, so adding a layer would mean a double layer of foam to clamp onto (maybe just longer screws?), and possibly an awkward fit, or some other trim method. In my B1700, the low-density soft foam with very soft "pebbled" surface is used, rather than the much denser and stiffer (foam rubber?) Ensolite, so the bulging around windows would be significant.

The other area of detail concern would be behind cabinets... the second layer would need to stop at cabinet mountings (another trim issue), or require refitting of the cabinets.

About the Bigfoot photo - yes, Bill, it was your site to which I was referring. I still can't find the topic in which you first mentioned this photo, so perhaps we lost it. Thanks for an excellent site.

The fiberglass shell is the largest surface area and it appears you already have some insulation there. I'd consider the two other areas of heat loss. The first being the windows. Perhaps heavier insulated window coverings are in order. The second is the floor. If your trailer has the wood-exposed-to-the-pavement-floor, add insulation there. Someone (pre-hac) had glued blue styrofoam (or was it pink?) to the entire floor area (on the bottom outside) with success in insulating that area.

This is a great idea, with some caveats.

If your insulated blinds aren't fitted air tight, interior air will convect down across the window. Since the insulation allows the window to cool more than before, you can end up with a little condensation factory, worse off than before.

The solution is to put those air-tight insulated covers on all but two windows. These you would crack open for ventilation, say at opposite ends or sides of the trailer. Allow as much inside air to contact these windows as possible. This warms the glass and frame, and with the ventilation, reduces condensation to as low as it's going to get in that particular trailer.

Exactly right. That airspace under the trailer, with any breeze at all, can cool the floor to near-ambient temperature. Brrrrr, wear socks.

Hello

I have been considering installing an insulating cacoon on my Compact II. I found a product called PRODEX which looks promising. Instead of air for insulation it uses foam with reflective film on each side. The product is 1/4 inch thick but the company rates it at 14.5 r value which is equivelant to 6 inches of fiberglass insulation. I was considering reflectex but this product seems to be a better choice. I will check it out and keep you updated or you can check it out at http://www.barnworld.com.

Thank you
Darrel

Looks like a good product. However to take it a step further, how and what kind of bonding agent would you consider that would not give off toxic fumes later or not keep it stuck to the shell: and what would you cover the reflective surface with on the inside and waht bonding agent would be needed???

is there a problem using the run of the mill spray adhesive fouind at home depot? given enough time to dry and air out, i dont see it as a hazard. do you?