Posted by Mike Sanders, Webguy

I have been working on low watt lighting.

(posted image lost)

Morgan,

What do you think about using say 10 LEDs to light the inside of the trailer?

Posted by Morgan, Member


I think it's a great idea, Michael. You might need more than 10 LEDs to replace each incandescent lamp, though. If you need a beta tester, send it over here.

When you put it on the market, I'll be the first customer if I can afford it.

Posted by Mike Sanders, Webguy
Morgan,

What I was thinking about was to space the LEDs around the edge of the upper cabinets. Neatly poking out through the fiberglass, invisible until turned on. If each one is spaced about 2 feet apart, wouldn't that give you enough lighting for soft “house” lights? One standard 12v lamp is 3 watts. I believe each LED is .02 watts. So 10 LEDs would be about .2 watts. (150 LEDs = 1 12v lamp)

To read by, I think you're right, you would need a cluster of 7 to 10 LEDs. At the retail level, LEDs cost $4.99 each. My friend is paying much less then that.

Posted by pjanits, Member
Michael,
There are high intensity LED's but they're not cheap.
Its the same ones they use for those really cool super bright school bus stoplights.

There are also those rope lights they sell for vans, they would give a nice glow in the trailer.

We tend to use those jar candles with two wicks in them. Nice light, cheap, and the bugs do not seem to "see" it.

Posted by Morgan, Member



Michael,

You're comparing power consumption in watts. The bright white LEDs have a much higher light output per watt of input than incandescent. It's the same with flourescents; more light output per watt of input. The light output is measured in lumens.

LEDs also have a narrow beam, so a diffuser of some sort would be required.

I'd like to have LED lamps to replace the two over the side dinette. Those two are used most. Much of it is for reading, though, so the light output needs to be at least equal to the incandescents. I use them for reading (Lee reads tapes).

I've tried to find replacement flourescents for those two.

Posted by Morgan, Member

Why don't you build up a test lamp with sockets, a prototype, for about 20 LEDs. Put on a diffuser and use your light meter to compare the light output at table top level to the light output of the incandescents.

You can change the number of LEDs easily with the sockets.

You should be able to get 20 LEDs cheap if your friend has a commercial account.

If you're after mood lighting, Pete's idea of the rope lights is the way to go.

Posted by Pete Dumbleton, Member

I browsed a Boater's World store today and came away with an 8watt fixture (says 0.5A) for about $13. I'd like some LEDs, but I couldn't pass that one up.

Pete and Rats

Michael, are you thinking of running these off the 12 volt?

I'm not sure that it matters, since when we are boondocking, we use a separate, D-cell powered lantern for ambient light (and use the kitchen lights when-and-only-when we need them, to conserve power).

The rope lights are 120VAC, though... at least all I have seen are. It would be nice to have an alternative that were DC. (The ropes could be modified?)

Either way, I agree, at least in the Casita, you turn on a bunch of the lights we have now, and it's glaring.

I'm definitely interested in what you come up with...

Sad to say, I tried my new flourescent light last nite, and its light output is too low for bed reading compared with a #93 bulb in factor fixture (8W f draws approx 0.5 A, #93 draws approx 1.0 A).

OTOH, it makes a fine area light.

Pete, still looking for an inexpensive right-angle LED bulb for the Bargman light fixture, and RatLadies who get along fine in the dark

Check out JC Whitney online- look up interior lights.

Rope lights!!! 12v
Also many choices of sexy mood lights.......you could get arrested tho.....

I've seen the 12 volt rope lights in Wal-Mart, Auto Zone, And I believe in JC Whitney. :) I've also seen decorative LED lights at Meijers.
Steve

Thanks Pete and Steve! :wub

I'm actually also interested in the 12 volt rope lights for decorating our gazebo in the back yard. (It's far enough from the house that we have it set up with a little 12v system - tunes, ceiling fan, little xmas lights that I got a few years ago from that California outfit, Reals Goods, a.k.a. Real Expensive. We use our solar panel to charge the batt'ry, when we're not boondocking with the Casita. And the Real Expensive lights will need to be replaced one day - even though they are hanging away from direct sunlight, they won't last forever, outside!)

But, I'd still like to know, Michael, if you're planning to power your LEDs off the AC or the DC?

Ah man, Steve, how long are you going to keep that duck all taped up like that?

Should I call the Animal Protection group?

Man, talk about mean!:) :) :) :)

Michael, I agree with Pete ... if you want to make a mint ... come up with a "cheap" plug-n-play, right angle LED bulb for the Bargman fixtures we (and most other RV's) have inside our trailers.

I really don't want to drill holes, string wires, etc. As you know, I like my trailers "stock" .... factory-mint-fresh.

If I start making improvements and alterations, Pam will come up with a honey do list that will take me months to crawl out from under.

Nope, like Pete says, come up with an LED bulb for the standard fixture.

I plan to use 12v. which will work either way - plugged in or not. LEDs only require 3.6 volts so you need to step it down anyway.

I'm hoping to set up two systems.
     1.  LED room lights for just sitting around playing games.
     2.  Very bright white light for reading.

The advantage of LED is that they use so little electricity, that when you are boondocking you don't run down your battery. LEDs will last for 100,000 hours. They can take bouncing around. They are techy, OK I like that one the most.

I want to be able to go any way I want. Full RV power or 12 volt solar. Just part of my way of wanting to do it all. I like combat camping in the right situation and I like 4 wheel drive desert boon docking and everything in the middle.

When I was a Scout Master, my troop went back packing, sailing squared rig ships through the channel islands, conoeing 50 miles down the Kalamath river, tail gate mountain man camping with Tipis, straight up “Boy Scout” little tents, sand dune camping, ultra Lite camping - tracking coyotes (everything you need for a weekend in a 5 lb pack) just to name a few.

LEDs are not for everyone. They are pricey.

Michael-Consider using blue LEDs. As we age, apparently our eyes respond better to blue tint than pure white esp for reading, which is prolly why those darned blue headlights are so blinding despite claims that they are not measurably brighter than the white one...

Pete and Rats

Interesting. I think blue is cheaper too.

Michael:

Here's one for ya:

http://www.theledlight.com/led-fixtures.html

and after considering candlepower, lumens, watts etc.:

'White' or 'blue'??.......... for a good reading light look into the color temperature or 'kelvin' rating (if available). Mabe this is getting too picky, but it makes a difference to folks with 'marginal' eyesight.

Me, I can't read, just look at the pictures anyway.:wave

White LEDs are 5000k.

I've been to that website Don. That is a good site. More money then I want to spend though.

The #1141 bulbs in the Casita fixtures can be switched out for lower wattage bulbs. I don't have any numbers handy, but was looking em over at wal-mart yesterday. A bulb with the same base thats marked 'dome light' or 'license light' will fit, not so glaring. :spin

I seem to use duct tape alot on everything (notice door window on trailer). I even have the furnace hole duct tape shut. I keep a roll of duct tape in my truck because you never know what might need to be secured.:o
The duck was teasing the children (dogs) and needed to be punished plus bath time is quickly approaching.:wub
Rubber duckey your the one.....

Steve:

If you've heard about duck-tape on PBS (Garrison Keilors Prairie Home Companion), you probably have a kuart of ketchup in the fridge also :) ?!

:wave Hi Michael
a website: www.ledmarketplace.com ... go to "business directory" for a list of suppliers.
see you Saturday? cheers

Hi All,
Just got back from Fla., 2 weeks in the sun. Very nice!
I didn't take the Burro but stayed at the mother-in-laws place.
After the first two days I wish I had brought the Burro down!!!!
Next time I will for sure.

Anyway, while cruising there and back I noticed that a lot of trailers and cars now have LED tail/stop lights. Also most cars/vans now have LED center stoplights.
Soooo, I'm thinking a junkyard would be the place to look for some of these. Just cut the pc boards they are mounted on and shape it anyway you want, solder up some wires to reconnect and you have
High intensity LED lights.

Here's a courtesy light for $17 with 4 white LEDs. I don't know if it's bright enough to read by, but at the price I'm inclined to try one.

Courtesy light at westmarine.com

They also carry, but I can't seem to find a link at the moment, a 6 or 7 led "bulb" that plugs into an 1141 single bayonet socket. It's about $44! That's a little over my "piddle away" budget so I'm
wondering if anyone has tried it?

From what I've read, LEDs tend to be more focused, that is, most of it's light comes out the top of the LED rather than being omnidirectional like an incandescent bulb. The bayonet socket LED has it's LEDs more or less pointed axially so I'm curious if enough light gets reflected into the living area.

Pete J ... welcome back! We missed you!

Steve ... thanks for the tip on the West Marine Lights. LED's are more directional than conventional bulbs. Replacement LED bulbs for ceiling or under cabinet fixtures would have to have right-angle-mounted LEDs ... such a set-up is hard to find!

Webmaster Mikey ... how are you coming on your invention?

Morgan, still waiting for you to make me something (out of LEDs)

Petey D ... if you asked Pam's opinion ... she beg all of you to make me "grow up."

Ah, suffer the children.

How can I help you "grow up" if I can't seem to do it (or even *want* to do it) myownself? I am 59 1/2, going on 12...

The LEDs are indeed quite focused, and most of the brake and lamp fixtures have the bulb pointing the wrong way. I bought some red 1157 LED replacement bulbs at a Canadian WallyMart (about $13 CDN) and tried them in both my truck and trailer tail light fixtures, but they weren't bright enuf.

Pete and Rats

Charles, I just got back for my two week vacation as you know. While I was gone, Morgan and I got together and compared notes on several issues. We both bought a 9 LED courtesy lamp. I was bitterly dissapointed and Morgan liked it less.

I took mine apart and over clocked it to see how much light I could get out of it. I figured, who needs 100,000 hours. If I ramp it way up maybe I’ll only get 20,000 hours (but good hours). So I sucked the solder off the circuit board and replaced the resisters with lower resistance. I got about twice as much light and still don’t like it.

I have a 7 LED flash light that blows your socks off. I had hoped the 9 LED courtesy lamp would be equal.

I have another project that is in testing now that will have the light output and be within the right price range. We are importing Super Bright White LEDs directly from China. More to come on this. I should have a prototype later this month. I gave Morgan a 12 volt Halogen version. The nice thing about LEDs is you can dim them down or dial them up to full brightness. Romantic - Reading; Reading - Romantic.

>>Romantic - Reading; Reading - Romantic

Well, I'd like that feature ... although mine will probably be set on the romantic setting most nights.

Not that I don't read much .... just that I .... well, hope springs eternal!

... 7 led flashlight

Streamlight? Sure Fire Huh, huh? What brand you got?

I have the Streamlight 4AA. I like it alot. After I bought mine, I found it for 1/3 less at a truck stop on sale. Lori said I don’t need two.

>>Streamlight 4AA

I like that one too! Save up all your other "dead" AA's from other devices ... you'll get hours of free light from the Streamlight.

>>don't need two

Well, what if, in the dark, you go one way ... and Lori goes another?

You'd need two then, wouldn't you? Be prepared

What truck stop??

Flying J?

It is our local Truck Parts house on Hwy 46 in Paso Robles, CA. The sale was in December last year. :o

I got Lori the little Brinkman Halogen that Walmart was closing out last year that you told me about. She loves it. (If fact I bought several on their closeout sale.)

I would suggest a small 12 vdc converter that puts out 120 v a/c. I used a 15 watt florescent light that was plenty for our scamp. That was a few years ago but we are looking at another small trailer to start over again.

I just ordered some led bulbs- they fit in an mr16 socket( the little two pin projector style) look just like halogen, but are 12 led supossedly in white. when they come in I'll let you know how they work- I plan on putting in an aimable fixture to direct the light where I want it. the price was right - 8.95 each:lol
I found them at this sight:

www.superbrightleds.com

Let us know how they work!

I got my bulbs!!!!!:cblob
exactly as described, and for the quoted price.
They use an mr16 base- thats the one for low voltage halogen lights





They wouldn't be bright enough for room lighting, by themselves, but for reading at night- perfect.:sunny I tried them in my basement, and one bulb has close to the brightness of a 10-15 watt bulb, but more focused.
I bought the narrow beam, because I wanted it for reading.

I compared it to the current draw of other bulbs, with my multi-meter and these are the readings I got:
1156 bulb- 2.0 amps
1141 bulb- 1.4 amps
12led bulb- .07 amps

now I just have to pick out my fixtures, and get busy mounting them

I've been on the SuperBrightLED web site before and I don't know how I missed the bulbs you pointed out in an earlier post. I was pretty excited about this and I ordered a couple each of the spot, area and festoon bulb lights.

I agree with your assessment. The spot is bright enough to easily read by but it's still a little tightly focused and the drop off in brightness is fairly sharp. I'm imagining this light over the dinette table.



This lamp is about $30 US at West Marine. I'd like to find a double headed lamp to put two of the bulbs into in order to broaden the lit area some.

I was thinking of something like this one, from home depot.

runs about 50.00 us



I thought about just removing the heads from that huge base, and mounting two on one smaller base with a switch each.Then putting the third one in a different spot

That is a standard commercial/residential fixture made almost anywhere, and by many manufacturers. Most of them are the same quality - so shop around. 50.00 US for the triple head seems a tad high. (I used to work for an electrical distributor)

You can buy the single head units and each comes with it's own base/finishing plate.

And one other thing - throw away the lamps that come with it (i.e. offshore lamps) as they do not last, especially in areas with vibration such as TT's. Pay a buck more for each lamp and get name brand such as Philips, GE, Sylvania, Iwasaki, etc.


Cheap MR16 lamps do not last.

Joe,
I hadn't thought to look for 120v lamps because I thought the MR16 bulb was a 12v only bulb. Good idea. Is there a 120v version of the MR16, or does MR16 only refer to the socket style?

Rick,
We're looking at a LED replacement for the typical halogen MR16. I'm just looking for the fixture and the socket. My sense is that since LEDs don't depend on a filament, they tend to be very robust. And long lasting.

I have a Surefire flashlight with the LED conversion head. I'd like to see a replacement bulb made up with a a few of THOSE LEDs. That sucker would toast bread!

I was under the impression that an mr16 bulb meant 12 volt, But I have seen quite a few fixtures that look like 120v listed for mr16 bulbs, and at work we use 24v mr16 for foglights on heavy equipment, so maybe they are available in all voltages.

now all I need to do is find a socket adapter to go to a regular base, and I can use one of the dozen or so desk lamps I could never get rid of at my yard sales.

http://llc2000.no-ip.biz/catalog/

Liteline is available at Home Depot (among other places like electrical distributors).

MR16's are also available in line voltage (120volt). Funny I don't remember this fact at all, I'm guessing it's a new thing. 15 years of selling lamps and MR16's were always 12 volt to me. Times change.

P.S. Joe - you can check out LIST (note: CDN Funds) prices for fixtures here also.

http://llc2000.no-ip.biz/catalog/page11.html

Guess what I found on the net today?????:cblob

I found adapters to convert standard fixtures to 12 volt sockets

bayonet base, wedge base, and mr16 base








all available through this site:

http://www.marksnyderelectric.com/catalog/...htadapters.html

I think I'll order the mr16 adapters and just buy some much cheaper standard fixtures

Cool!

Joe, having you on the board is costing me money!

Aw, who am I kidding. I'd be piddling it away on something anyway.

My lights are in, My lights are in!!!!, I'll supply pics as soon as I can get some taken. They work great for reading; we tested them on our spring shakedown cruise last weekend

Here are the pics of my new lights:



All you see is the fixture !!!


From

below looking up




with light on




see the end of the track and the cable for power feed




Light off




Light on

These last two were taken just at dusk, they're better once it's really dark.

I had the track leftover from another project, just cut it to fit.
Soldered the cable onto the ends of the track after cutting it
Bought the two fixtures at a yard sale for 5 bucks and took out the step down transformer and added the switch to turn them on and off.
Then tied into existing wiring

I took delivery of a couple wide angle, 12 LED, white, 1157 bulb replacements. I installed in one of the fixtures over the side dinette. There was room to slightly angle the bulb down. I have the solar candle Charles uses and I like it, but if you're looking for general lighting, this approach beats the socks off it. It draws 0.04 amps. $6 each.

Not enough to properly read by, but bright enough that you won't accidentally grab the diet pop from the fridge instead of the proper adult beverage.



http://www.superbrightleds.com/1157.htm

Meanwhile....

I was wandering around at lunch, having escaped my keepers, when I saw a clip on goose neck lamp in target. The lamp area is large enough that I think I can gut it and install both a wide focus angle and a narrow focus angle MR16 LED that Joe's demonstrating. I plan to cut the 120v plug off, install a 12v plug and a socket somewhere in the seat structure by the converter. With two bulbs I should pull about 0.2 amps.

Joe's installation is pretty slick, but I like the thought of being able to move it from the dinette to the room divider to outside to even as a trouble light for the Explorer.

>> I plan to cut the 120v plug off, install a 12v plug

Thanks, Steve for mentioning that. I was wondering how that could be done.

I want to convert a lamp or two, but was wondering if the same wiring would work or would I totally have to rewire it? Shouldn't be hard either way.

With the adapter that Joe posted, it would be pretty easy if I could just replace the plug.

I must admit, the LED thing has me intrigued too.

it is just as easy as changing the plug, most automotive/hardware stores, and places like radio shack sell replacement plugs for 12v accessories.
Open it up, attatch two wires and put it back together.
The original switch can stay as long as it's not a touch dimmer.
the beauty of led bulbs like mine is you can just pull them out and
turn them 180 degrees if you get the wires backwards. the other types you have to reconnect the wires.
I am looking for a desk style lamp next which I will fix up with the same bulb as my other ones, then I'll put on a 12v plug and add some 12v outlets so I can use it where I want. My existing lights can be moved the distance of the track(window length) and can easily be unplugged from one track and put on another, I just haven't got around to putting track up at the other end of the trailer yet