Is it safe to place the battery where my refrigerator used to be (assuming I can get it out tonight) ?

It would now be in a very well ventilated area but not technically sealed off since since the cabinet doors are not air tight.

Thoughts?

Dan

I know there are some strong opinions on this issue due to the fact that when the battery is being charged there is a small amount of hydrogen gas and oxygen gas produced, and these mixed together can be quite explosive.

But consider your car, battery in the engine compartment with sparks flying all around during dry weather. And many of the older cars and pickups had the batteries under the seat. The only problem I've ever heard was when a fellow pulled the caps off his battery while it was on a high rate charger and peered down the holes to check the water level with a cigarette in his mouth. I don't even know if the story was true -- probably someone just thought it up to scare little children.

So I am a little cavalier about such things. Of course, I managed to survive my infanthood and childhood just fine without a seat belt and haven't yet figured out how work my daughter's cell phone or digital camera.

But if you are concerned, you can get a regulation battery box at a marine supply.

We`ve had 8D diesel batteries blow up from a spark while under charge where I used to work.....also batteries can blow when boosting cars from the arcing of the booster cables when the batteries are connected with the wrong polarity or in the wrong sequence or at the wrong point.....stuff like this happens.......Benny

Dan,

You asked for thoughts...

Do I have a philosophical objection to sealing it off? Is it physically impossible to find a location due to space considerations? Do I travel alone with no one else I care about in the trailer? Battery explosions are relatively rare. Will I be comforted that it was a one-in-a-million chance that my beloved pet weasel went up in the explosion? I can't eliminate all risk so where do I draw the line? What is reasonable due diligence?

Dan, as long as the battery is in a plastic battery box with lid so it can't leak acid into the trailer, and the fridge compartment is still vented to the atmosphere, I think it's almost an ideal location. I don't see a problem at all.

Roger

What's the main concern here? Is it the fumes (regardless if it blows or not?) or the spill factor?

I assume by placing it in a plasstic battery box and strapping it down I'm OK.

Dan

Dan, I think it's both spill containment and venting hydrogen. I also think that by putting it in a box and strapping it down in a well ventilated compartment, you're fine.

Roger

I must be dense. If the danger is the creation of explosive gases during charging, wouldn't placing battery inside a covered little plastic box make accumulating said gasses more probable?

Now that aside, I take it the ideal location would be on the tongue? Or would the rear bumper be better? Or, does it matter, so long as the battery is kept outside?

When I got my Burro, judging from the wires and a metal tray on the curbside rear bumper, that's where the battery was kept. But I don't want to put my new battery there. I like keeping the bumper clear. I also don't want the battery where it can be seen and becomes a temptation.

There's no room for it on the tongue, so I was planning to place it under the sink, where my original fridge was, but I have sealed up those fridge vents. By placing it in a plastic box have I reduced to negligible the probabilities of placing my weasels at risk, or not? Or, if I buy a sealed battery which has no openings, does the entire safety question become moot?

I'm not certain, but I think you can buy replacement battery caps that have a fitting to attach a vent hose. This would be an ideal way to vent a battery.

-- Dan Meyer

So you would drill a hole in the wall or floor for the hose to expell what its venting? Gosh I don't think I would do that.

I don't see why not... Your trailer already has a few holes in the floor. Get a drill, cut the hole(s), and if you are fussy paint the unfinished surface inside the hole.

-- Dan Meyer

No, because there are no completely sealed batteries. Gel and AGM batteries normally do not vent, but still have a safety overpressure vent, which is why they can be mounted any way except upside-down. I think an AGM battery would significantly reduce the risk (which may be low anyway), but indications from AGM manufacturers on their web sites are that venting the compartment is still required for safety.

Are you aware that every Cadilac de Ville has a battery under the rear seat. It is a sealed lead acid battery. I don't think they would put one there if it was unsafe.

The only danger is if under heavy charging the hydrogen generated would leak out and be ignited somehow. There is a very minute probability that this would happen.

If you had a small case of some type, preferably plastic, with the side against the fridge vent open and possibly a gasketed access door from the cupboards I don`t think you`d have a problem....your fridge was sealed off from the trailer interior if it had gas capability.....I was under the impression that the battery would just be placed in the fridge space and open to the cupboards which would cause a possible high accumulation of gas...also like Brian said...the cars that had batteries in the passenger compartments, i.e. Corvettes, had a fairly tight access hatch from the passenger cabin to the battery compartment with venting thru the case bottom.......Benny

The battery in located in a vented box. The Cadillac manual warns about making sure the vent hose is attached and about open flame in the vicinity of the battery, particularly during charging. I don't consider this a remote possiblity in what is a small room with gas cooking appliances.

But, to each his own.

Here is a "reasonable" price in a vented battery box that I have found:

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-conv...oxes-vented.htm

Click to view attachment

Here's an even better "deal" - though I do not know how they are to deal with:

http://www.marinersdirect.com/shorts/detai...hp?ITEM=5720159

Click to view attachment

All of the millions of VW Beatles had the battery under the rear seat. I never heard of a safety problem with that. BUT, anyone who has messed around with old VW's knows that the floor under the battery is often eaten away from battery acid. To protect other things that might be stored on the floor in your battery storage area, it would be really cheap insurance to spend the 30 bucks on a vented container such as the one ttmatson referenced.

Bob

I watched a neighbors VW burn. He drove home went into the house and boom, the battery blew up. One crispy VW. This was a buss not a bug.
I think I'll keep my battery out on the tongue.

Most of the VW fires were from rubber fuel lines that broke and leaked onto hot manifolds. I had a buddy who had a microbus go up in smoke too, only his was on the freeway.

The issue with batteries when they charge isn't the release of hydrogen, it's the hydrogen gas concentration build-up. As with any fuel, (wheat or soybean dust included) it has to reach a specific concentration in the surrounding air for it to oxidize (burn or explode). The most critical place for that concentration is at the battery caps in the top of the battery's cells when it's charging. After that, if the battery is in a small confined space without being adequately vented to atmosphere, eventually the air-to-hydrogen ratio can build up to an explosive level.

I remind you that you can extinguish a lit match in liquid gasoline. You are probably much more at risk of explosion from gasoline vapor spilling from the fill spout every time you fill your car's gas tank, or when you get gas and a truck is filling the station's tanks; and few of us have ever seen either of those occur.

While a hydrogen explosion can happen with batteries, as a practical matter, I just don't think that a battery encased in a strapped-down, vented standard RV-style plastic box in a compartment vented with refrigerator vent-sized holes is going to be a problem, even with a cooking stove above it. There is just too much free air exchange from the refrigerator vents for hydrogen to build up or be a problem. Lots of RVs (including my Airstream) have vented battery compartments inside the body. They have just a wooden box with a battery tray in them, and a small vent in the door. I have yet to hear of or personally have a problem with them.

Roger

Just adding my two cents worth. There are two issues.

One, is that a discharged battery will generate significant hydrogen during recharge, or boosting. That is why the final connection during boosting should ALWAYS be done at the charging vehicle. In fact, in the good old days of all metal vehicles, I had a 30 foot positive cable and a 4 foot negative cable, making the final connection bumper-to-bumper. Any spark or open flame around a charging battery risks fire or explosion.

The second issue is one of battery acid. this eats everything, and I would never have a battery outside a plastic box.

Combining the two, a number of years ago, a colleague of mine was boosting his car. He made the right initial connection, but once his car started, he disconnected that battery first. The subsequent explosion scarred him for life, and he lost some vision in one eye.

Thiss is definitely nothing to fool around with.

Victor

you guys are on the right track! vent the battery to the outside, and make sure its in a spill proof container, and then make sure it stays away from heat! I dont think I would mount it next to the heater. It would give off gas the same way as in charging!

And for the Volkswagon incedent, I know three costomers that had battery fires in there bugs! All were from the bottom of the back seat touching the terminal posts and setting the horse hair on fire! two of the three had the wrong battery, and the last ong had a great big guy sitting back there. Man did he get a hot seat!

Ok, I did a little home work on the hydogen from the battery. And for the most part, If you charge the battery at its max c rating, roughly 20 amps, you could fill the egg with enough hydrogen to make a flash of fire in 3 weeks! Its not thet big a deal apparently the only people that really blow up from battery charging hydrogen, are people that exceed the c rating for extended amounts of time! and for hydrogen to make a flash of fire, you need 4% hydrogen with your standard air supply.


This eazes my mind, cause Im going to put a group 31 in my trailer under the front bunk. Im going to hook up to the vent, and run its natural vent out side, and leave the battery exposed to dissapate any hydrogen that gets by the cap. Im only going to charge at a max of 10 amps(5 c) so for me to get 4% hydrogen in my trailer, I would have to srink wrap it air tite, then come back in a year.

4% is the unstable mark for hydrogen, at 15% it would blow windows out of your trailer. At 4% you might loose an eye browe! anyone feel better about this?

welllllllllllllll, my little trailer came with NO battery and there is no place to put in on the front outside, so I too am looking into installing it inside and have been going over the "enclosed, vented outside OR a regular battery box" . . . I still haven't decided, tho I tend to fall into the camp that there just won't be enuff gas to cause a problem EXCEPT for one little problem - I have a very hard time "trusting" mechanical things - thus while I "know" I can set the charger, what is to say that the charger will NOT malfunction? (possibly OVERcharging causing a "gassy" situation). Therein lies the rub - I intend to have a "small solar" charger setup as well as landline charger - - - anything mechanical is just like anything "human" prone to a failure - - - so I'm still on the fence as to which way to go decisions decisions decisions

Re: "homework on hydrogen"

Not me. You sold me, Ryan. I love it when you guys with the academic skills to analyze and produce cold, logical, numerical answers volunteer their conclusions to help us "intuitively artistic" types get comfortable with our little hunches. Thanks.

Thank you Myron for your kind words. But Im more the spacial, mechanical type like yourself! I just happen to love electric model planes. So It seems that Im allways charging a battery or 2.

As for TT, You are very right! If you over charge your battery, you will produce double the amount of hydrogen gas. this is why Im going to use the factory vent that came on the battery. If by chance you boil your battery95% of the gas produced will go out the vent to the out side. That small percent that slips by the cap, wont be enough to make a mixture of 4% of the trailer.And thats the reason Im not putting mine in a plastic box. the plastic box now becomes an atmosphere. you can raise that atmosphere to 10% really easy in an over charge situation. Still an eazy fix, would be to vent the top of the plastic box. Hydrogen goes up!

Ryan,
Thanks for the insight
So I think I'll go with a regular Battery Box (in case of leakage, etc., it will be contained) and install a tube to vent through the floor of the trailer - seems like the "easiest" and best compromise for my situation.

Seems that with a bit of discussion things tend to solve themselves - I love these forums with so many helpful opinions, ideas, and YES even logic

Not sure that a vent on the floor will do you much good. Hydrogen probably goes UP not down. Thus as the gas fills the area; the hydrogen will go UP and push the oxegen down out the floor vent, leaving a pocket fuel ready hydrogen at the top. That's probably why in the one pictured above; the vent is at the end of a tube that rises above the box.

Nowwww when the trailer is flying down the road, that's different cause the air flow under the trailer may cause a pressure differencial that will suck out what ever gases are in their but that is only speculation on my part. Still though the trailer sits more than it gets pulled down the road.

Without question the "gas" will rise (go UP) - But having had Motorcycles in the past, those batteries have the "vent" nipple with a hose going downward (thus I assume the full size battery will also have just a "vent" nipple to attach a hose to as well) - anyways - I "assume" the gas will go through the "vent" down the hose (thus outside) since it will be the path of least resistance - the battery I intend to purchase is a sealed one (yes I know you can pry the panel away on top and add distilled water).
OR
Am I missing something here?

I think it is time for a trip to the parts place and get a battery
and start this project

Any more suggestions OR ideas are welcomed

Murphy`s law...if something can go wrong, it surely will....have a great evening...Benny

So "apt"

Went to the parts store AND the battery I have selected does not have a side vent
The "regular" style battery box has a vent on TOP of each pole

So now what

Wellllllllllllllllllll after much discussion in the aisle at the battery display, we decided that we would go with this because:
1) It will be under the seat;
2) Chances are there will be enough ventilation not to "matter";
3) "IF" I don't do something, I will keep "second guessing it" and camping season will be over OR so She Who Must Be Obeyed sez

So sometime this week (after the solar panel arrives) the installation process will begin

I know this topic is getting out of hand! The group 31 I have selected has 3/16 holes on each cap. a plastic vacume connector will push right into it! now you have a place to put vacume line! next week, I'll get the gas leak detector out and set up a battery in this configuration. and we will know for sure if this works!

and just for TT, I'll take lots of pics for future reference!

Great
Good idea - will be looking forward to the report

Yes - this is getting a bit long - but it IS helping and being informative - I guess I owe an
apology to Dan for "hijacking" the thread

As She Who Must Be Obeyed would say - "Bad Toad"

So I bought a vented battery box, came today, and it looks exactly like the picture shown earlier and seen below. What you don't see here is underneath where there's a 2 inch diameter hole extending out 1 inch deep from the bottom tray. A second vent for a second hose? What's that all about??

From the original link:
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-conv...oxes-vented.htm

""Battery boxes that are vented include a kit (wall connector, outside vent and 9" hose) for inside installations. This battery box that is vented also has a hole at the bottom to help with air circulation. This product meets the RVIA Code.""

Hope this helps

Click to view attachment

Does anyone else see a certain family resemblance here?

Click to view attachment

Ok, sorry... going to my room now...

Roger

My 17' Bigfoot used to have two 12 volt batteries under the front bench seat. They were in a custom wooden box with a gasketed lid that screwed down. The box was vented outside of the trailer via clean plastic tubing - seemed to work well

I have a 1982 Fiber Stream with a steel interior battery box. It is unsupported as descrribed by Frederick Simpson in another thread, plus taking the battery in and out is a real pain!

I was lucky to purchase a used vented battery box of this description plus hose yesterday. The real problem solver was that a standard 1.5" crumb cup (PlumbShop PS2256) is a friction fit into the 2' vent nozzles on the tank. This is also a standard drain stop for many RV sinks. I plan to install two, with metal window mesh to prevent insects getting in.

I plan to install the box as follows.

1. Site the box location on the trailer floor.
2. Nail in 1"x2" support strips on the floor to frame the battery box and keep it positioned.
3. Mark the floor drain hole.
4. Drill the floor hole to allow the hose to pass.
5. Plush the first crumb cup in the bottom section vent with the window mesh, from inside the box (then it won't fall out).
6. Glue a short section (2" to 3") of hose to this vent. This will ensure anything leaking from the box (like battery acid) will exit below the trailer floor.
7. Place bottom section in between the 1"x2" framing supports.
8. Insert the battery, and connect cables, using wiring grommets to seal the box at the cable entry points.
9. Run a small width, thin foam weatherstrip arond the bottom sealing surface.
10. Place the top half of the box onto the bottom half.
11. Screw fiber straps with buckles to the 1'x2" side supports, and strap in the battery box
12. Push the second crumb cup in the top section vent with the window mesh, from outside the box (then it won't fall into the box).
13. Install a manual water filler unit upside down (so that rain water coming in won't run to the battery box) on the side of the trailer, plugging the 3/8" vent line.
14. Grind angled vent slots in the manual water filler cap with a Dremel tool, and permanently glue in place.
15. Connect one end of the vent hose to the battery box top vent.
16. Connect the other end of the vent hose to the modified manual water unit.

Voila!

I'll provide phtos as this comes together.

Victor

Wow, Victor, pix of that I gotta see. I especially want to see that crumb cup.

We have just had a battery installed and it is located underneath the seat in the bed area. It is in a sealed battery box with a hose to a vent on the side of the trailer. It's exactly the same setup as we had in our old camper van which vented out of the side of the van. We never had a problem with it if we remembered to check its fluids. The only time we had a problem with fumes was when we forgot to check the fluids and it dried up. Otherwise, never had any fumes or obviously no explosions!
Louise