These are the CCFL lights I had in my Compact II trailer at Cambria Rally this year. Very low amps to run. Long bulb life, unlimited on/off cycles and no heat output are some of the advantages. Check them out at All Electronics. Mine are the 2 lamp CAT# FL-122WH

CCFL lamps

Hey Mike,

What a co-inky-dink! Based on what I saw in YOUR trailer, I order a pair of 12" ones with invertor off eBay just the other day. They should be here any minute!

I got white ones, and intend to mount them in the case where my flourescants are right now, using the lighting gels in the fixture lens to diffuse. It will be very easy to do. Disconnect the flourescant fixture electronics and stow the wiring. Remove bulb. Stick Cold Cathod lamp on the fixture base. Take the 12v feed to the first one, put in the invertor, then use the existing 12v lines (Which will have been cut and deactivated) to run the invertor output across the trailer to the second fixture.

The invertor output is 680v tho. Be careful if you try this!

*ZAP*

I'm not sure if I would want to extend the output leads on the inverter to lamps. Here's a FAQ on CCFL lamps.
Cold Cathode FAQ'S

Q. Can the wire length from the cold cathode (ccfl) to the inverter be extended?
A. Generally speaking, no. The inverters have a pre-determined output when the length of the wire is extended it will change the load and significantly reduce the light output. Wire length is normally maximized at about 7-8 inches.

Q. Can the input power leads be extended?
A. Absolutely, the power leads can be extended to any desirable length using a minimum of a 22 guage wire.

Q. Can the polarity be reversed?
A. No. the power inverters are not protected from reverse polarity. If the positive and negative power leads are connected reverse, the inverter will sustain damage and most likely will be instantly destroyed.

Q. Can the cold cathodes be strobbed, dimmed or switched?
A. Yes, by interupting the power supply any of the above may be accomplished. Make certain that no changes are introduced between the inverter and the cold cathode as this will damage the invereter.

Q. Can a single inverter power more than one cold cathode?
A. Yes, there are both single and dual output inverters available. They can not be modified to accomodate additional bulbs.

Q. Can cold cathodes be run from an a/c source?
A. Although the inverters for cold cathodes all require 12 volts DC for power, through the use of an a/c adapter they can be powered directly from a standard wall outlet.

Q. How durable are cold cathodes?
A. Cold cathodes are extremely durable. Thay are basically shock and vibration resistant. While the bulbs are very thin and made of glass they are generally protected by an acrylic or poly-carbonate tubing. They are durable enough to be used in automotive applications for under car and accent lighting.

Q. What is the expected life span of a cold cathode?
A. Cold cathodes can be expected to last approximately 20,000 hours.

Q. What is the brightness output level of cold cathodes?
A. The bulbs sold on our site are very high output, high intensity output. With our standard inverter and bulb combination the output will be about 32,000 cd/m2, much higher than those normally found on the market.

Q. Can the brightness level be incresed?
A. Yes, we have came up with two methods. 1. The use of our special high out put inverter along with our high intensity bulbs, can increase the brightness level to 45,000 cd/m2. 2. The bulb can also be equipped with a reflective tape that will basically redirect all of the light from 360 degrees to 180 degrees, thus doubleing the amount of light in one direction.

Q. What is the best method to mount cold cathodes?
A. Our bulbs come with a double sided tape attached to them. This is adequate for some applications, however zip ties or our auto ccfl clips are recommended for secure automotive applications.

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the info.. it's good info to know! Glad I found out before doing it.

I can just get a second set, or install these on the opposite end as my LED domes. Either on it's own produces plenty of light for any function.

I read by my Leds the other nite.

BTW..

THEY ARE HERE THEY ARE HERE..
I think.

I had a note in my PO Box saying there is a package waiting tonite when I checked.

It's either that or the boring unexciting (But possibly life saving) propane detector I ordered the day before.

Ack.. more wires to futz with.

I just had a 12 volt, 18", 2-tube flourescent fixture attached underneath the cupboards that are over the stove and sink in my 13' Scamp trailer. I gives very good light when I am not able to plug into an electrical outlet to be able to use the electric flourescent fixture already installed. Good work on the forum, thanks for all the info. Marg

I add them three weeks after picking up our new StarPad and they work real good.

Mine don't work. DED.

(Yes, I wired them up correctly. DED... sigh)

Gina,
When that happens you just feel like
Shucks...I've been following the lighting saga with interest. I'd like to replace several of the stock ceiling lights with those if they pann out. Please continue to keep us posted on your progress with them.
Kurt & Ann K.

Well, I just ordered 2 of the 2-lamp, 12" per tube CCFL lights Mike referenced above, thanks for the heads-up! Only $15 per 2-lamp set, not too bad. I'll install 2 of them over the table and the other two over the sink and countertop. There are already incandescent fixtures there that I can tap into for power.

I have been wanting cold-cathode fluorescents for some time, but have not bought any for a couple of reasons:

• most readily available units are sold for decorative purposes, and I have not been able to find meaningful information about actual light output
• cheap sources are usually U.S.-based web stores, which means shipping hassles for me

Mike and now Pat and Arleen have proven that this particular model from All Electronics is usefully bright, so I'm taking plunge and ordering -- if Internet Explorer will stop causing problems. For Canadian customers, it is relevant that they told me by e-mail that they ship only by USPS (US Postal Service), which should mean no customs brokerage hassle or fees (which is very unlike courier shipping).

I plan to measure the actual current draw of this setup if I ever get it. I'll also compare this light to my ThinLite 15W fluorescent, Home Depot el cheap 8" fluorescent, and the original two-bulb 1141 fixture, all over the dining table. I'll report what I find if people are interested.

For those interested in this type of light, here's a recent discussion which includes them: LED Bulb Replacement. I'd be interested to hear from Rob S. how his worked out - I don't know if they're the same brand.

Gina,

Sorry about your lights.

Let us know how All Electronics responds.

Brian,

Download the Opera browser and never look back!

http://www.opera.com/index.dml

I did not get mine from there, I got them off eBay for a whole 3.95. You get what you pay for sometimes. At that price, it's not worth the bother to argue with the seller. I will try All Electronics next.

someone wanted a picture of my LED Domes. I did this last nite.

Yes, everything in the trailer matches my dogs. They told me I could

These are 24 LED domes and one fixture (12v, in the center) that uses 924 (?) bulbs. I got the LED version from eBay (But these worked LOL!)

Here is a direct link to the domes. Thier website leaves a lot to be desired tho.

Autolumination..ctlumination is thier eBay ID.

I will get another set for the other end of the trailer. But I still want the cold cathodes for over the kitchen.

My CCFL lights came in yesterday. I cut the computer power plug off and hooked the wires up to a spare 12v power supply I use to charge my handheld ham radio batteries. I've got them running now instead of the lamp I usually use near my computer. They are reasonably bright! Should be good for my intended use in the camper.

So far, I'd give them two big thumbs up! Now I need to figure out how best to mount and wire them.

I have a wooden shelf over my dinette - I think I'll drill some small holes through it and use wire ties to secure the lamps to the bottom of the shelf and the power supply to the top of the shelf, where it will be hidden by the lip on the edge and will get good air circulation.

I haven't mocked them up in the trailer yet, but I'm guessing if a polished reflector was used to focus the light in one general direction, it would definitely help. They are pretty bright to the eyeballs to look at directly.

The lamps come with a on/off switch already wired, but it is mounted in a metal plate that you're supposed to install in place of one of the blank covers over an expansion slot on the back of a desktop computer. I still haven't decided how to turn them on and off. I could just use the existing switch in the existing incandescent light fixture and tap into the switched side for power, but that means you'd have to remove the incandescent bulb if you didn't want that on, too. I was also thinking of tapping into the unswitched power and mounting a pullchain or some other type of switch, but the challenge would be in putting it somewhere that would look good without wires sticking out everywhere.

Going to have to think on this one.

When I got my 2 pairs of 12 inch lights I used my existing light fitures to power them and hide the power supplies. One was a round incadesent light fixtue above the sink. I took the old bulb out and it left room to mount power supply inside and use the existing on/off switch to power it. Bulbs were mounted both vertical along wall and horizontal above the sink using double stick tape. That gave a pretty good spread of light in the cooking area and eliminated shadowing. The other pair I gutted out my old Thinlite flouresant fixture and mounted the power supply in it and mounted the bulbs in same location as the old bulbs and used the original switch also. One added bonus, the old flouresant light used to tear up my shortwave/ham radio with noise and these are pretty quiet on the radios.

I'm interested in mounting two of these above my side dinette and using them for reading.

Will that work? Enough light for reading?

Mine have plenty of light for reading. They are located on ceiling just above my table.

Thanks, Mike. That's what I needed to know. I just ordered two pairs from All.

Did you retain the diffuser for the flourescent?

Yes I still use the diffuser. It can be used without it as it just snaps on.

I received my two pairs of CCFT lamps fro All Electronics yesterday.

I hooked one pair up to a 12 volt battery this morning and measured the voltage and current.

12.8 VDC
0.73 amps

That means they consume 9.344 watts. If my memory is correct, the incandescent lamps in the fixtures Casita uses draw 1.5 amps. One pair of these CCFTs use half the current and the light appears to be at least twice as bright (I have no way of measuring the light output).

I'll try the CCFTs in the Casita when it cools down some here (it got up to 100.6º yesterday). I'll try them first just mounted to the fibeglass bottom of the overhead cabinet and see if they provide lighting comfortable for reading. I wish I had old 12" flourescent fixtures like Mike used, the diffuser would help and the installation would look better.

Thanks to all of you for the information I used to buy these. They look like winners for an old boondocker who likes to get up early to read and work crosswords.

Question.

Can you hear any electronic noise in the radio or TV when the lights are on?

Morgan, it is my understanding that they are very good for doing the dishes under too.

I ordered 15" ones. They have not gotten here yet.. but as mentioned earlir, they will go under my diffusers in my florescants.

When I do dishes, I just fold the plates and stuff them in the trash.

Are you sure 15" ones will fit in your flourescent fixtures (most 12 volt flourescents use 12" tubes)?

They are very quiet on am/fm and tv frequencies. There is some noise on some shortwave frequencies but nothing like the thinlite flouresant fixture it replaced. Bulbs are cool to the touch after long use. Mike

Thanks Mike,

Sounds like the ticket. I may have to wait ’til father’s day (next year) to get them. I went over budget on electronic toys for this year already.

Michael,

Maybe you can see mine in September.

Morgan, the cold cathode tubes are all tube and no hardware, so the existing fixture should be fine. The fixture has to fit in the 12" tube from the florescant, the mechanics on either side to hold it and the mechanical part of the fixture has extra space on the side of that as well.

The Cold cathod tubes should fit in there with even a 16th of an inch on either side to spare.

You'll see when yours arrive. The only "extra" on the tube itself is the little clear ends and the wire. Truely Low Profile.

Gina,
Do all the CCFT bulbs of the same length emit the same amount of light? Not all LED's are the same, so I'm curious. Like Morgan, I'd like to use them for reading above the side dinette.
Kurt & Ann K.

Jurt,

I have no true scientific way to measure lumenz of these things. I only have my eyebones to judgewith..

Compared to LEDS.. they are 6-7 times brighter when you are across the trailer from them. They have a larger coverage area.

Leds are great for pinpoint lighting, but once you step away a couple feet from them, there is no light at all! Black hole effect! In my 13, if your back is to the LEDs, you absolutely cannot see whats on the wall you are facing, even tho facing them everything is well lit.

The CCFls work very similar to flourescants as far as the coverage, but they are not as harsh. They give off a more appealing light, brighter, but not as soft and warm as LEDs.

You could easily read with them, yes, tho I actually think they would disturb the spousal unit if used above the bed.

The LED set up I have is great for reading as well, just not for working. I plan to use the LEDS as my ambient light and the CCFLs for when I am doing tasks.

Hello Folks,

I've been lurking on this subject since getting a 78 trillium last month and looking to improve the 12v lighting in the dinette area. Based on alll of your inputs, I ordered a 12" pair from all electronics and it arived today. A dumb question, but serious one , since a post from Mike indicated that mixing the polarity would fry the unit, is: which lead coming out of the inverter is positive and which is negative? I know in automotive aps, black is negative and red is positive, but I've heard that RV standards are different. Orange=? // Black =? Thanks very much .

As an aside, I recieved an e-mail from all electronics that they have free shipping through July 6th on orders above $25. It stated put "freeshipping" in the coupon/offer code slot.
Worth $7 anyhow if you are considering getting these lamps.

George

Hi George and welcome.

These actually comply with Computer, auto and other small electronics circuit standards.. they were never really intended for specific RV use, tho it is a great side benefit!.

That being said, red is +, black is -

Gina,

What you said is true of the input to the inverter (12VDC), but George asked about the leads coming out of the inverter.

On mine which came from All Electroncis, the wire pair that comes out of the inverter are both white with polarized connectors. The inverter output is 660 volts AC.

George,

Don't try putting longer wires for the output of the inverter to the lamps. I'd recommend just using the existing wires and plugs, that way you can be sure of the correct wire length. Because it's AC, the polarity shouldn't matter.

Since he was refering to the red and black, I am assuming he was actually talking about the DC input.

The connectors to the lamp side are in a molex type keyed connector, the wires are white. You "In therory" can't hook it up wrong.

I have only seen a few sets of these, and all the wires to the tube from the invertor are white.

But morgan is correct if you REALLY are talking about the output.

Gina and Morgan,

Thank you both for your answers. I should have engaged the brain in my phrasing"out of "before my fingers typed. I did indeed mean the red and white leads. Thanks for the caution about lengthening the output leads Morgan, I think Mike posted info on that from the company, but I had forgotten, and I do need to extend some wires to get to where I want to place a switch.

Again a separate issue: the company info mentions boosting the light output. The amount seems adequate for my purposes, but I'm wondering if anyone has tried this and whether there is a downside to it as in shorter bulb life, more inverter heat, etc. Also I wonder if anyone has tried the yellow lamps to balance out the very whiteness of the white bulbs to give a warmer light. It's hard to tell from the catalog what kind of light they would throw, and I'd just as soon not buy it and be dissatisfied after clipping wires.

Thanks, George

George,

As usual, Gina was right, dang.

You have to remember the market for these is electronics nerds. The only way to increase the light output is to increase the voltage out of the inverter. That would require you to modify the circuitry in the inverter or get a different inverter. Now, an electronic nerd would see that as a challenge and start snipping and soldering and running and measuring.

I can't help with the light color.

I got another set from another source and am using them right now. (Yeah .. camping eith the comp again... and no camera )

I actually got 2 individual sets, so I have 2 power supplies, but the supplies accept 2 tubes, so I mounted them on either side of the kitchen cabinets, underneath. After attaching #2 to the supply, it decreased in intensity by, a knats hair, but even then, they are quite bright and I don't even feel the need for the flourescants anymore.

I think I will leave them where they are, they do great in the kitchen and give off enough to cover reading on the goucho OR the bed.

They are not as obnoxious as the flourescants either! Still not quite "warm" but they do just great for working.

I have a second set of those LED domes coming. I think I am done with worrying about light or power for awhile!

I ordered my two pairs of 12" units from All Electronics on June 3, my order was processed on June 13 (no idea why the 10-day delay), and I received them here in Canada via the post offices of two countries on June 22. So far so good.

I briefly hooked up a set using a "12 VDC" power supply to see if they work and get first impressions. My supply provided 12.59 V with no load and came down to 12.52 volts with the CCFL unit connected; at that voltage the dual-tube unit drew 0.70 A, consistent with Morgan's results. The tubes lit instantly on the first and each subsequent test. I will try to arrange a test in a refrigerator, to anticipate the cold ambient conditions which cause difficulty for my Thin-Lite (which otherwise is very well behaved).

With no reflector or other fixture, the useful light output is substantially less than that of my ceiling-mounted single-tube Thin-Lite 15W (as it should be, if only based on power consumption), and not even quite as good as a single-bulb incandescent fixture (1141 bulb). It is noticeably better than my Home Depot 8" unit, but that one was only run on batteries for this test and it may not be a fair comparision; that 8" light was deemed clearly inadequate for general dinette use (e.g. dinner) on our last camping trip. My current feeling is that a reflector will help a lot, and I am still optimistic that this can be a replacement for even the two-bulb incandescent fixtures over the dinette table and sink.

The light looks like a nice "daylight" white to me, much higher colour temperature (more daylight or less reddish) than the incandescents, and roughly similar to my Thin-Lite. Without an additional diffuser, or setting the various light fixtures up over a test surface, the sheer intensity of the very think CCFL tube makes the comparison difficult.

For those concerned with mounting, I noted the following dimensions:

• the 3 mm quoted diameter is of the actual glass fluorescent tube
• the fluorescent tube is contained within a plastic tube, which is 11 mm (7/16") in outside diameter, with alternating frosted and clear stripes
• each plastic tube is anchored in end blocks which are basically 15 mm (19/32") cubes, although they taper slightly down to 14 mm square on the ends
• including the end blocks, each tube assembly is 314 mm (12.4" or 12-3/8") long overall
• the high voltage wires from the power supply "brick" to the tubes are each 28 cm (11") long
• the red and black 12VDC supply leads for the brick are about 50 cm (20") long, if they were cut out of the supplied harness

I expect to report more objective comparison results when I get these tubes running in a custom-built fixture with a reflector and less haywired power arrangement.

(Somehow I missed the overall length in my dimensional notes, so I added it today, June 27)

My Burro has natural reflectors. Those refridgerator white walls come in handy sometimes!

I am pleased as punch with mine. I do not intend to modify anything accept the 12v leads need to be lengthened to reach the most close and convinient power source, the useless incandecant dome light on the side of my upper kitchen cabinet.

I am also wary of the velcro mounts, tho the stuff they supply you with is pretty danged aggressive. I will have to think of a better way. Maybe a long white wire tie run thru the bottom of the cabinet.

They run so cold I am not worried about heat issues.

Gina,
Velcro works better than one might think. I put an LED light inside the closet. One of those round things with 3 LEDs and sticky on the back. It didn't stay put, so I stuck some velcro on it and on the inside of the closet. I went about 10 miles one way on a washboard, gravel road this past week-end. It stayed put. You saw the clock week day clock in my trailer, that's held in place with velcro. The "industrial" strength works great.

I just ordered some from that wicked ebay. A set of 12" white, a set of 4" white and some 12" blue ones just because they are purty. After I ordered them hubby told me I should have ordered some other colors too......to make a disco boler.

But Byron, then I don't get to play with my power tools!

Here is the Evil eBay source.

I swear these guys shipped them before I even bid on them! Did a BIN on Sunday, had the lights on Tuesday.. and they came cross country.

My lights arrived this morning. Like Gina said they ship fast!

My electrical consultant has gone fishing for the holiday "weekend". If I can figure out the wiring I might attempt to hook them up. Electrical is not my strong suit and I don't want to fry anything!

There is a black and a yellow wire to the power connector, black wire runs to the inverter, yellow wire runs to switch...... and a red wire between the switch and inverter. I feel so blonde.

Liz, I will take a pic of mine tonite. It is a temporary instal and all the wiring is exposed.. A "picker" is better than instructions of you are not sure.

Picker ARE good! I'm excited about these lights, they look really neat!

Here R a picker.

Click to view attachment

I already splained the switch config to you.

I originally had these one over sink, one over stove, but found I liked the two paired over the stove best. Plenty of light there.. you can see the wash.

My leds are now installed on the goucho end. With everything on, my batterry yawns and says "Did someone say something?"

Thanks Gina! That looks pretty bright to me. I hooked up mine to the computer to make sure they work, I'm impressed with the light.

I finally got around to installing a set. I am very impressed with them. I'm thinking of replacing the rest of my RV style lights with them. If I'd have know then what I know now....

The light sets.
The existing puck lights output.
The CC light output.
The installation location (picture taken without flash).

Cool, huh?

I found a pair of CCF lights at Fry's electronics for $15, then gutted the 110V flourescent in my Scamp. I cut the power leads from the CCF's switch and used the existing switch in the old fixture. Afterwards, I mounted the new tubes with double stick tape and plastic tie wraps. I also had to disconnect the old power wires from the 110V breaker and extend the pos. wire to the 12V supply and the neg. wire to the ground bus bar.

It looks great (although the light temperature is a little cool), and now I have use of a formerly useless fixture since I rarely have hook-ups at my campsites.