It has begun. There is no turning back. After seeing Nancy and Mike's Scamp 5th Wheel Standard, which they've redone so the bed runs from front to back instead of side to side, we decided we wanted something similar.

I did the demo work and started fabricating new pieces today . . . shredded the fiberglass gaucho . . . There is no turning back . . .

The last photo is of the old rib support, my cardboard template for a new support (the odd shape at the top will be the new overhead cabinet end), and one of the two new rib supports.

We have gaucho foam pads with like-new fabric if anyone wants them, by the way.

--Peter

Click to view attachment Before
Click to view attachment Foam Out
Click to view attachment Gaucho Out
Click to view attachment See the white rib?
Click to view attachment White rib gone! (So's the one on the other side.)
Click to view attachment Oh, there they are!
Click to view attachment Fabricating new plywood ribs using the old rib as a guide for making a cardboard template.

Hi: ing GOOD!!! Love the pix...I gotta get me a Digi. Cam. too!!! One question though...Whats the green stuff all over your yard Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

Good for you Peter I love Nancy and Mike's 5th Wheel, the idea of getting your head away from the windows and having drawers, extra cupboards AND stairs is stellar. The best part of the side bath 5th wheel is how open and airy it appears. When Reace was gathering information to build the Escape 5th wheel, he spent time talking with Nancy and Mike about how their mods were done. Hence the front-to-back sleeping in the Escape. You should send your patterns to Scamp. The side-to-side sleeping in the 5th wheel is one of the few complaints I hear about from people. The idea of having to crawl over someone to get out of bed has never appealed to me. Ya'd think Scamp would offer this as an option, if in nothing else than the side bath Deluxe model.

Looking forward to seeing your finished pics too


On Edit: Do you have any idea how much this change may be adding to the tongue weight?

Bye again

Looks really good. The Standard Model opened up with Cabinets Like Nancy and Mikes is really cool. Easier to heat and Cool being open compared to the deluxe. That Green stuff could Moss and Mold I am 60 miles to the nw of Peter Alf Here in Soggy Bottom Oregon

We had snow earlier. Just inches of the stuff, Alf. It was awful!

We get that now and again here in the pacific northwest. Of course it all melted away and now all that's left is moss. Soggy moss. With a few blades of anemic grass sticling up through it. I''ll be putting down moss killer & fertilizer soon so some nice healthy weeds can take hold for the rest of the year.

--P

Not really sure, but that's one of the advantages of a 5th wheel setup. Since the "tounge" weight is centered over the back wheels of the tow vehicle we don't have to be quite so concerned about the weight on the hitch.

Guessing at it, I'll be using about thirty pounds of wood, centered 2/3 of the way from the axle to the hitch. That'd be about 20 pounds construction weight. The memory foam matress will weigh more.

--Peter

Our 5er was also converted to front to back sleeping. Slab doors on 12" high legs were placed so a center isle was between the beds. This allows for extra storage under the beds.
We used some tupperware containers for the storage.

On top of the doors are high density foam mattresses (4" thick) with twin bed memory foam on top of those. It's really comfortable.

Last year we had to crawl over each other to sleep and use the head during the night, now we don't have to.

Since we are also in Portland, your welcome to stop over and check it out if you want

Paul

The substructure for the loft area is starting to take shape.

Click to view attachment
1x2 hemlock lumber -- light and strong -- form the beginnings of the loft platform. The 3/8 prefinished maple plywood piece is the left-hand side of the chest-of-drawers structure that'll hold two 11" tall x 19" wide x 18" deep drawers and two 5" tall x 19" wide x 18" deep drawers.

Click to view attachment
Looking forward.

--Peter

I'd enjoy looking, bt I think it'll wait until one of the gatherings. I pretty much have my battle plans drawn and the construction underway now!

--P

Envy...envy...envy...that is looking great. Would you mind posting your plans when you get it all done so others of us could use them? I'd love to eventually do this mod. My wife and I fell in love with Mike and Nancy's mod when we saw it and put in a "hard-wood" floor after seeing theirs.

You don't happen to have the posts and hardware for your bunk bed still? The previous owners of our 19' had removed the couch and put storage cabinets there. I removed them and put it back to normal as it is easier with our kids, but they didn't have the hardware.

I think that we are getting a "cluster" of 19' Scamps here in the PNW.

-Isaac

When your all done come up to WA and do mine pleeze!! LOL

I'm not sure if the word "plans" quite apply at this point. Usually I have a plan drawn up before I start a project, but with the Scamp there are almost no pre-existing straight lines, which has made drawing plans more of a challenge. But I'll save my rib template and draw up a rough set when I'm done.

Yes, I have all the hardware for turning the gaucho into a bunk; I'll set it aside and we can hand it off sometime.

--Peter

Yes...there are no "one template fits more than one Scamp".

Are you going to the Oregon Gathering?

Looking very nice tough to convert our deluxe with front bath. Keep up the great work and keep us posted

what does this 'mystery rib" do?

Roof support? Talk to Adam? Kepp your feet from escaping?

If the answer is NOT #1, leave it out.. looks very open without it!

Yes. We're in space A7 or A9. I think. Something like that. Nice to be totally clear on the subject . . .

--P

I called Scamp about the original ribs, which were 10"x3" wide at the inboard base feathered out to match the forward curve of the trailer over the gaucho. They are structural, and having taken them out I think I see what they do: stiffen the flexible fiberglass sides of the long run between the kitchen and the front of the trailer to help support the roof. After seeing this modified my rib design to include a foot that's 2x8" wide instead of 3/8x3-1/2".

I'm making the best of the rib, though. It'll integrate into the longer overhead cabinets I'm going to make, supporting them and acting as the end-cap on the curb side, and I'll add another, informal support just forward of the curb and street side windows to create a box/valance kind of thing around the windows for a blackout blind, curtains and pockets at the bottom for magazines and other goodies.

The roof will also be supported by a street-side 13" wide half length hang space closet at the foot of the bed that'll run from the bed deck to the ceiling.

Click to view attachment

--Peter

I think the rib, is the reason Nancy and Mike had these cabinets built:
Nancy's and Mike's Scamp Trailer Page

They likely serve the same function, rib-wise. Design-wise Lynne and I decided extending the upper cabinets on each side and leaving the rest of the space as open as possible would be nice. If we decide storage is more important at some later date we can always add the cabinets in later.

We're also installing a "european" or " RV" queen bed, 60x75 inches instead of a "standard" 60x78 inch queen and building two steps instead of Nancy & Mike's three so we can make a larger bottom step that can also serve as a sitting spot for dressing & pulling shoes on and off.

--P

In every reference I have seen to real (not RV) bed sizes, a Queen is 60"x80" (e.g. size tables from the first Google hit for "queen bed dimensions"). Some RV makers are pretty loose about their terminology; I think businesses which are selling a product which doesn't match a real standard size should just list the dimensions for clarity.

Whatever the name, 60" x 75" should be a nice bed.

A bed length of 75" might not work for taller folks. We're both 5'8" so this shorter length will work well for us. We played around with a tape measure in our own traditional queen-sized bed to make sure the shorter length would be comfortable for both of us (this sounds more, ahem, "interesting" than it really was).


See above post about what space we're in at the Oregon Gathering. Some people are numerically challenged Thanks goodness Peter believes in measure twice, write it down, check it again and THEN cut.

--Lynne

And the update continues. Last week and weekend I finished the loft deck substructure, put in the steps, the dog kennel floor, the laundry hamper sides & bottom, cut the deck, and ordered a memory foam mattress.

Click to view attachment The dog kennel substructure. I've installed wiring under the bathroom for 12v & 120v plugs and for a wireless LAN antenna.
Click to view attachment The floor of the kennel has storage underneath. There's a strut under the removable temperboard floor panel so it doesn't sag under our 60+ pound poodle.
Click to view attachment And with the floor down.
Click to view attachment Steps up are in. Drawers will go under the deck and middle step. A tool and setup stuff chest will live under the bottom step with room at the front to kick off your shoes.
Click to view attachment "Big" chest of drawers area with laundry hamper off to one side.
Click to view attachment The laundry hamper (and all of the dividers) are pegboard
Click to view attachment And here's what it looks like now.

wow.. looking good! makes me jealous! LOL did you say you would do mine too?

Pup Pup gets his/her own room???? How cool is that?!!!!!

Back off Christi, he has to build my rottens a room first.

You ARE bringing your tools to Bandon, right, Peter?

I was thinking I'd bring a vacuform jig . . .

--P

GINA...

PHFTTTTTTTTT!!


LOL!!!

Not a lot of progress on the loft remodel this week. My 81-year-old-dad was having chest pains and wound up in surgery for a quadruple bypass surgery. He is doing well (thank you), but I've spent a lot of time with him and my mom the last week.

I did make four drawers (but not the drawer fronts) and the new memory-foam mattress arrived in the mail.

Click to view attachment

These drawers are made differently from most drawers. I used thin (4mm) plywood for the sides, back and bottom so that the drawers lightweight but still be strong. Bits of wood in the corners support glue seams for the panels and will (eventually) provide a glue surface to attach the fronts too.

The bottom panel is glued flush across the bottom of the drawer. Usually they're inset in a groove 3/8" up on the drawer sides, but that would allow stuff in the drawer below to shift while the trailer is moving and wedge itself under the drawer above. The flush-bottom will (hopefully) prevent that. (And, for the drawer makers out there, because the sides and bottom are the same material, they'll all expand and contract at the same rate, so the bottom doesn't have to be free-floating.

And the mattress arrived It's sitting up in the loft so the foam can expand. Tomorrow or Friday I'll cut it with an electric turkey carver knife so it conforms to the curve at the front of the trailer and to match the planned 75" RV-Queen form factor.

--Peter

Family issues and school have kept me from doing as much as I would have liked on our Scamp 5er, but there has been progress. The loft platform is installed and glued into place with (some) of its trim, the loft ribs have been installed, and I've made the drawer fronts and added a coat-rack-bar over the laundry hamper. I'm hoping to get the carpet onto the steps and in Lex's dog kennel/bed area before tomorrow's Oregon Spring Gathering . . .

Click to view attachment Here's what the loft area looked like with the drawers made but not the drawer fronts.

Click to view attachment The new drawer fronts are 1/4" Poplar guled on an "O" shaped piece of masonite/hardboard with a punched aluminum mesh (From Lowes) center panel. The little black rectangle below the drawer fronts is one end of a plastic belt buckle where the web "belt" that holds the drawers shut while in motion snaps into place.

Click to view attachment The poly strap tucks under the bed matress when we're set up. And you can see the three-hook coat rack and one of the new loft ribs, too.

--Peter

Very nice job, especially the drawer fronts and the innovative strap system.

I'm finally getting back to working the mods in my loft. This week I took the old overhead cabinet in the loft out, added a hang-space closet at the foot of the bed, and got the new overhead cabinet started.

Click to view attachment The "before everything" pic.
Click to view attachment The new hang-space closet and shelf for the overhead cabinet (which will have a facing and both will have doors.

--Peter

I would like to see how the dogs room turned out.

This is the "dog's room" with our 60lb standard poodle Lex inside. The floor of the kennel is at the same level as the bottom step up to the loft, so not only can we can sit on the bottom step and scritch his chin, we can also store longer-term items in the space under the flip up floor panel. The kennel is 28" deep from the edge of the step back about 30" wide at its widest point at the front, bigger than his kennel at home. The second step leaves a roughly 10" gap to the bathroom wall that Lex has no problems navigating.

Click to view attachment

--Peter

Thanks! That is so cool!

My dogs are not allowed near your trailer.

They will want their own room too!

Peter was incredibly busy last week, finishing up multiple projects to get the Scamp ready for camping this weekend. Peter and son now away at the Arlington air show, so I am posting this update. Peter can post the rest of the update pictures when he gets back.

Here is a side-by-side comparison of the old and the new upper cabinet in our Scamp 5th wheel loft:

--------------OLD-------------------------- NEW --------------
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

The new upper cabinet is beautiful! Plus we have extra storage since Peter extended the cabinet all the way back to the new mini-closet next to the bathroom (not shown in this picture).

I finally got a chance to work on my Scamp project as well. Last week I got busy too and finished sewing a new set of curtains.

--Lynne

I agree, Lynne - they ARE beautiful. He did a terrific job!

WOW!!! An incredible job! The cabinet is a perfect combination of elegance and function, and your new curtains look great. Excellent work!

Jeanne

Love your new cabinets and interior. Wonderful job.

Question, what is the insert material in the cabinets. It looks great.

The insert material is a punched aluminum sheet from Lowe's; the idea was to create a lightweight drawer fronts & cabinet drawers that provide ventilation during the Pacific Northwet's damp season when it's a good idea to allow for air circulation so the dehumidifier can do it's thing in all the corners.

Click to view attachment

Here's a pic of the stairs up to the loft with the 4-drawer chest-of-drawers to the right, a two-door cabinet under the middle step, and a 20" wide x 7" high x 12"-14" deep (it's deeper at the bottom than it is at the top) drawer under the top step. The bottom cubby (where the wood is now) is slated to have a setup tools chest/stool at the back and act as a shoe cubby up the front. Lex's open kennel space is to the left of the bottom step; the kennel floor is level with the bottom step and has a removable floor panel to access more storage.

Click to view attachment

This is a closer view of the punched aluminum panel in the drawerfront and of the embossed trim, which is stained and has black Sharpie marker detailing in the embossing.

Not technically part of the loft, but it follows the stylistic elements of the cabinetry I've been making for the loft.

Monday I installed a new microwave. Ordered this Sanyo on the Web from Walmart & picked it up at the store for just over $100; bought this one because it is almost the exact maximum size that'll fit in our microwave cubby above our 'fridge and it has a grill/browning element.

Click to view attachment

Things the picture doesn't show or doesn't show well: There are 2" vent holes drilled through the fiberglass cabinet side walls on either side of the microwave, one toward the bottom of the microwave cabinet on the sink side, which is where the microwave's air intake is, and one diagonally opposite, near where the micro exhaust is. Both holes are covered by little round roof soffit vent covers (from Home Depot) spray painted with white appliance paint. The front lower edge under the micro also has ventilation in the form of the same punched aluminum sheet I use for my drawer and cabinet fronts, and the inside of the cabinet is covered with Reflectix insulation.

--Peter

Peter: Will you have any drawings available of your modification? This type of conversion may be what I need for the wife. She wasn't able to sleep with comfort in the side to side bed of our previous Scamp 5th wheel.

Sam

Peter, I just got caught up on your latest updates and all I can say is WOW! Chris and I were already impressed when we saw your 5th wheel at the April NOG, but now we are looking forward to seeing all your latest improvements at the October gathering. That's IF we get our "new" Bigfoot fixed up enough to camp in by then! Chris has been spending all his spare time building our new garage. Now the garage is all but finished and our Bigfoot is finally nicely parked inside, so he's just about ready to start working on it. It's such a fixer-upper that it's a bit daunting. Chris is handy but unfortunately I'm not at all, so we'll see how it goes. Anyway, great job on all your neat modifications!

Maureen

First, thanks for the kind words about my project. The loft conversion is down to a handful of undone items, things like valances for the curtains and (planned) pull down shades, loft lighting, a closet door, and a pull out tool chest and shoe cubby that fits underneath the bottom step. When it's done I will take a bunch of new pictures and work out some sort of conversion guide for those who want to re-trace my steps. Hopefully I'll have this information online by December, which is when I'll start working on a "U" shaped dinette conversion and matching overhead cabinets.

Several people have asked for loft conversion plans, but I can't really provide an exact plan set or cutting guide. Why?

BECAUSE NO ^&*()^ TWO MEASUREMENTS ON THIS BEAST ARE THE SAME!

We always knew our eggs were unique to the owner, but only recently have I discovered just how far this uniqueness goes. Take the gusset support ribs. The one on the curb side of my trailer is 1/4" longer than the one on the street side. And, when I installed the deck support using the little shelf support the old gaucho seat back/top bunk was connected to, I found one side was 1/2" lower than the other. And, when I made a cardboard template for the street-side half of the new deck area for the loft and flipped it over, expecting the contour where the other side of the gaucho used to sit to match, it didn't.

So, yes, I can and will provide a guide with general instructions, construction layouts and tips for people wishing to make future conversions, but please don't expect an exacting set of plans.

--Peter

Adding to my last reply and fresh back from the Oregon Gathering, I'd like to mention that my Scamp 5th Wheel Conversion was sitting right next to Ian and Paddy's Escape 5th Wheel, so we had a fun time comparing our two trailers.

I have to say that, after all my custom-to-my-wants-and-needs modifications, I like my 5er better. That would be true of any trailer I put this much work and planning into. That effort aside, here's my take on the general similarities and differences between my Scamp 5th Wheel conversion and the Escape 5th Wheel.

Loft Area: Both the Escape and my Scamp have a similarly-sized, slightly-smaller than a standard Queen sized bed (with Escape's bed being slightly larger) with overhead cabinets on either side. The Scamp, however, has more headroom. You can comfortably sit up with your back to the "headboard" wall of my Scamp and read, even stretch your arms upward a little, but the Escape's low, sloping roofing profile and angled forward wall don't leave room for anyone to sit up and read -- or engage in other activities requiring vertical space -- in bed. The advantage here goes to the Scamp.

Dinette Area: The Escape 5th Wheel has a "U-shaped" dinette layout that is hands-down nicer than anything I could do with my Scamp. This is partly because the Escape is slightly wider and partly because Escape has square corners that allow them to make much better use of the interior space in the main body of their trailer. I might try to steal some ideas from the Escape dinette for my remodel project, but given the limitations of the Scamp shell, the back of my trailer will never be as nice as the Escape 5th Wheel.

Storage: Both my trailer conversion and the Escape have a pretty fair amount of storage space for a small trailer. Both have a closet with hang-space for clothes, my trailer has a big chest-of-drawers (the Escape doesn't), but the Escape has many exterior hatches that make their many of their storage spaces more accessible. My take on storage is my Scamp conversion and the Escape 5er are on fairly equal footing.

General Construction: Hands down, the Escape wins. Every Escape trailer I have looked at has excellent fit and finish. Sure, If I look hard I can find a flaw or two, but I didn't have to look very hard at my 2005 Scamp to find examples of cut corners and lower-quality workmanship. With time and energy I can fix most of my Scamp's issues, but many of these fixes should never have been necessary in the first place. Advantage to the Escape.

Bathrooms: My converted "standard" layout has a privacy room with a toilet and shower you can use when seated. It's fine as a toilet enclosure, but kinda cramped as a shower. The Escape has a larger bathroom with toilet, standing shower, and sink. Our bathroom works just fine for our toilet needs, and is OK compromise on the rare occasion when I feel the need to shower in our trailer. If you have full hookups most of the time (because you'll run out of fresh water or gray water holding capacity if you don't) and like taking showers in your trailer, the Escape is much nicer.

My conversion aside, the standard Scamp 5er layouts do have a few advantages not offered by the Escape 5er. While the "Standard" layout loft is smaller, roughly 60" deep by 72" side-to-side, standard layout has a convertible gaucho sofa/bunk that you can put two kids in, bringing the sleeping capacity of the standard layout to six. (Two in the loft, two in the dinette, and two in the gaucho.) The "Deluxe" layout has the same small loft mattress, but replaces the gaucho with a larger bathroom (toilet, sink, and standing shower) that creates an isolated loft room that might be just the thing for couples with different sleeping hours or a need for privacy from activities in the rest of the trailer. So, as long as you can sleep comfortably in the six-foot loft bed (as many people do), there are some powerful reasons to choose a Scamp.

In summary, if you want a longer bed or want a bed that's arranged so you don't have to crawl over your bunkmate to get in or out of the loft, your choices are converting a Scamp or buying an Escape 5er. If you have the money and aren't worried about the reduced headroom of the Escape loft, that should be your first choice. If you want that extra headroom, your only option is converting a Scamp 5th wheel "standard" layout or finding someone who is willing to sell theirs.

Just be aware that converting the loft is a long, involved process that requires design and woodworking skills, some understanding of how to work with and repair fiberglass, and a lot of time and patience.
If you don't need the loft space

There are reasons -- primarily the roomier loft space -- why you might prefer a Scamp 5er conversion to the Escape, but getting that Scamp conversion means either waiting for one of the rare loft conversions to come available or being a handy guy or gal with woodworking and other skills and the time to do the conversion. If you don't need that headroom in the loft the Escape 5th wheel is, in my opinion, a much nicer unit.

--Peter

Thanks Maureen. I sure hope you two make it to the fall NOG. It'd be nice to see you and to see what Chris is planning for your new-to-you Bigfoor 5er project.

--Peter

I have seen his mod first hand, and I must say, it is one of the nicest jobs I have ever seen in an egg.

It is quite aesthetically appealing, incredibly practicle, and for those of us who have the need, the dogs room is an outstanding idea and implemented VERY well. (A standard poodle lives in there!)

Nicely done Peter, and thanks so much for showing me!

<blush> Thanks for the compliment, Gina. Glad you liked it.

--P

Added a sconce light to the loft cabinetry.

Click to view attachment

It's made from a Home Depot/Hampton Bay track light like this one, but with a brushed nickel-steel finish.

Click to view attachment

To make the Home Depot light work I discarded the track-light attachment, swapped and re-wired the "GU10" lamp base to a standard auto/RV bayonet bulb base, spray painted a 3/8" fender washer to blend with the cabinetry. The lamp is attached to the cabinet using a 3/8" "T-Nut" that I re-tapped (used a tool to create bolt threads) to match the metric M10x1 thread that used to attach the fixture to its track mount.

If this works out well I'll convert four more and use them as reading lights in the corners over the loft bed and dinette.

--Peter

Finally go the new hang-space closet door in

Click to view attachment Door closed
Click to view attachment Door open
Click to view attachment And the view from the loft

I'm experimenting with a new door closure: Neodymium Magnets from K&J Magnetics. K&J sells sell these little 1/2" diameter by 1/8" thick magnets that have an amazing 13 pounds of pull force each; the magnets have a tapered hole inset for a wood screw, so you can attach them to a cabinet. I put one in the top and bottom corner of the door and epoxied one of those "L" shaped shelf supports into the door frame at the top and bottom to serve as a strike plate.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

It works really well. The door closes very securely and requires a small tug to get it open, but not so much that you feel like you have to work at it.

Next task: The bathroom door's gotta change!
Click to view attachment == to this ==> Click to view attachment

--Peter

Hi, Peter.

Nice work on the loft mod! I hope to see it in person some day.

I converted my S19 last year too. In addition to length-wise sleeping in the loft I converted the rear dinette to a wraparound couch, plus a few other tweaks. You can check out pix on the Yahoo Scampers Mods+ group.
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Sca...tos/browse/2b9f

Cheers
KB

PS- Isn't it fun trying to do custom cabinetry in such a beast!!

Yes, I've seen both your Scamp 19 photos, old and new trailers, and have to say they look great. You do such cool stuff! I'd love to see your trailer, too . . . I've even stolen a few ideas from you . . . more on that later.

The loft conversion has been quite the project. It's not actually done yet: I have yet to add in some detail boards that "box" in the windows, creating a valance and additional former that will help support the front end of the loft cabinets, more loft lights, and build a tool chest that sets under the bottom step up to the loft.

Those projects will come later. Right now I'm working backward through the trailer, working on projects like the bathroom door and such that give the rest of the trailer the same kind of look and finish as the loft. Bit-by-bit the trailer is shaping up nicely. Currently I'm replacing all the cabinet doors in the galley/kitchen area. The upper doors are installed now and all the lumber for the lower ones cut and either in the process of being glued together and sanded or waiting for stain and urethane finish. They'll all be done and installed by mid may. (Except for a new, tilt-out sponge and odds-n-ends panel that will go in later, when I do fiberglass cutting to replace our sink with a double bowl unit.) You'll like one of the doors I'm working on . . . its a removable tilt-out garbage can that makes better use of the under-sink space where the wheel well and water heater are located.

The next project I'm tackling is a "U" shaped dinette conversion. That's where stealing ideas from you comes in . . . The idea of freeing up some externally accessible storage by creating a rear bench seat/water tank with gauge window is genius! So I think that mod as will show up in our trailer in time for the Oregon gathering at Bandon this summer. After that I'll change out the upper cabinets over the dinette for something that both matches the woodwork elsewhere in the trailer and better meets our storage needs.

--Peter