Well, I ended up buying the 1974 Compact II that was listed here:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/index.php?showtopic=23249

I paid $3000 which may seem a bit steep in retrospect, but I'm sure you all would know better than I (I'd love to know what you think though). But my wife, 4-week old baby girl and I are starting to think longingly of our first camping trip. Plus the thing fits into my little garage in San Francisco, which is great!

I have a question for you all and am hoping to get some conceptual help here. The trailer is rigged with 2 12v lights but there is no battery (though the wiring still exists). What I would like to do is be able to have power when we are away from campgrounds. I plan on using the 12v for a short spans of light in the evening, night-light for our daughter, perhaps setting up an inverter for a laptop, and then buying an electic water pump. I am also thinking of buying a 5-watt solar panel to charge on-the-go as well.

Conceptually however, I am a little weak. I am basically looking for assistance in understanding, once I have the components, how the system will be set up. I have found this website:
http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm

It provides some help. Apparently I will be installing a fuse panel and running the pump, inverter and lighting through that. The solar panel will, I imagine, hook up directly to the battery. As for the battery itself, I will put it in a battery box that ventilates outside... Unfortunately my father-less upbringing and training as an academic (professor) have left me ill-equipped to move beyond this. If anyone can provide help (in words, pictures, or deeds if you are in the area) I would be much obliged.

Also, if you must provide the infamous advice that I struggle to hear, "Have a professional do it!", please let me know what I can expect to pay. After $3k for the trailer, $200 or so for parts, and an academics' salary, I am hard-pressed to find much more cash lying around.

thanks in advance!

David

p.s. If anyone needs advice on postmodern theory and its applications in a post-industrial consumer society, I am more than glad to help!

Hi David

I personally like the location of the Scamp battery box. It's located on the trailer tongue and outside the trailer. Batteries tend to leak some and generate hydrogen gas when charging. I think most will require a marine/RV battery (I assume the marine service aspect is due to the bouncing around the battery gets during towing... thick plates in the cells and deep cycle capability for charge-discharge capability). The Scamp website may have an electrical diagram if it's of any help. You could probably make due with a inexpensive "smart charger" to keep the battery charged up.

Good luck with the new camper!

Thx for the reply. When there was a battery, it was indeed located on the tongue and I am not totally adverse to doing that again. I also bought a smart charger on ebay (2/10/50 Amp) but was thinking that the solar thing would be good on the road.
As for the Scamp I'm not sure how it helps exactly but I did find this:
http://scamptrailers.com/wiring.html
The battery I am thinking of getting is this:
http://www.exide.com/products/marine_rv/or...deep_cycle.html

I have a Compact 2, and it's factory battery location is under the right side dinette seat. Personally I agree with John & Sandy, the hitch mount would make me feel a little better due to the possibility of leakage, or gas coming off the battery. I'm just not motivated enough to change the battery location, have to run new cables, stuff like that.
I DEFINITELY think you're on the right track, with your making plans for not just a battery, but also a solar supply system and all. Although I don't have any solar myself, I can really appreciate the wisdom of it, free energy and all. I THINK there might be a need for some kind of charger controller though, so that you don't get an overcharge effect from the solar supply. I would think it would be wise also to add an onboard electric charger, for when you're plugged in at a campground, or even in your garage, so that your battery is always fully charged and ready to go. My Compact did not have one when I got it, and I added one (Bought at Walmart for less than $20!).
Also, I can relate to the wonder of being able to park the unit in your garage. Mine fit in the garage at my old condo very nicely, just barely clearing the doorsill by an inch or so! hehe But once I had it in the garage, I was able to easily roll it around by hand, pop the top up, and have it plugged in to 'shore power' for charging up, lights, cooling down the fridge before a trip, or whatever! I think, in this day and age of such limited parking all over the place, or unsafe street parking, having RVs like our little fiberglass units that you can fit in such small places/parking spaces is REALLY GREAT! hehe

Congrats on the new purchase David!

First off, a 5 watt solar panel is not going to help you much at all. 5 watts will keep a charged battery charged, but thats about it. It will not actually bring up the level of the battery if you are using the battery. You would need a minimum of 15 watts just for nitely lights. Forget the water pump or invertor. 5 Watts is a slow trickle charger at best.

I run off 60 watts and still need to be careful at times.

What you want to do is not difficult to understand. Try not to let it intimidate you. It's not much more complicated than wiring your home stereo. BUT, it isn't as forgiving if you make a mistake. For safety reasons, it needs to be done right.

Consider driving down to THIS rally in a couple weeks, and I will help you with it (Thats the purpose of the rally!)

Also, to add..

You would do a lot better with the solar if you switched to low current draw lighting such as LEDs and cold cathodes.

These are also not rocket science to install, but you will have to buy them.

A charge controller would not be necessary with anything under 15 watts for solar, but, as mentioned before 15 watts is a minimum.

The beauty of solar is you don't have to get it all at once. You can start small and add more panels as your finances let you.

HERE are my experiences with boondocking with solar and how I used alternative methods to the traditional RV systems to make it work very comfily.

Currently (Excuse the pun) I have what seems like a cruise ship in comparison to that trailer, but I am converting all the systems I can to duplicate the old one.

Thanks Joseph and Gina! Most of our trips will probably be between 3-4 days, so perhaps a solar panel isn't necessary at this point? If a battery could do what we need, then I would just as well upgrade at a later date to solar when my bank account recovers a bit.

Gina- that rally looks to be the perfect thing for a beginner like me. If we feel like the rhythm that we are starting to establish with little Lucie (our baby girl) continues to take hold, then perhaps we truly can make it.

As of this point I will start gathering the parts I need, namely the deep cycle battery, smart charger (should arrive soon), electric water pump and possibly an inverter (any idea how powerful this needs to be for a laptop?- I have read here in other forums that it should be as low as possible)...

okay posts will get shorter now- i was just handed our baby and am 1-handed now!

David, yes, your invertor needs to be just enough to do the job.

I personally use a 100 watt one, and I use it to charge only.. use the computer off the internal bettery, deplete it, then recharge with the comp off. That way you are not trying to light the screen, turn hard drives etc and it takes MUCH less energy.

Running 3-4 days without a charge is probably unrealistic. 2 at the most, being conservative with incandescants etc. With a baby, you will no doubt be running a heater too. THAT will take it out of the battery quickly.

You can get a 15 watt panel off ebay for around 85 bucks.

The heater in there doesn't have a fan, i think so it should require nothing more than propane... right?
So 15 watts should do the trick, huh? And no 7amp charge controller? Ugh... back to online banking!

15 watts will keep the lights going if you are careful. It's a toss up on the controller. 15 watts is the recommended start point.

I would feel comfortable without one if I was able to monitor the battery frequently. I wouldn't go any higher with one however, especially if you were going to leave it (Battery) sitting for days without use.

If you just use the solar "When you are out" you shouldn't need a controller for 15 watts.

One thing I personally wouldn't do is add an electric water pump unless you need it for a shower (in fact, I was getting ready to replace mine with a manual pump on my Jayco 16' when I traded it in on my 91Scamp13) and here's why:

1. Manual pump uses absolutely no electricity, just some arm excercise.

2. You are far less likely to waste water with a manual pump.

3. You are far less likely to accumulate gray water with a manual pump.

If the person who removed the original (I presume it existed) converter also removed the fuse panel (may have been integral with the converter), you can get replacement fuse panels at some auto parts stores or a wider selection at marine parts stores like West Marine.

David,

PLEASE be careful with your heater! I am assuming you have a cat heater (please tell me it's not a Mr. Buddy.. they are NOT catalytic heaters!)

If so, leave a window open on ALL sides of the trailer. Cat heaters deplete oxygen like crazy, and babies lungs.. well, you don't need the story from me.

I had a Wave 3 from Olympian in my 13, and it worked VERY well for what you are doing electrical wise, but I never slept with it on, and was always careful with it while awake.

What Pete Says about the water pump is true. However, I can see needing one so two hands are available to hold a baby.

On my Compact Jr i just used a motorcycle battery for the 2 small lights.That all i needed.

Joseph-I have convection type heaters in my Love Bug and my (sorry) pop-up camper. Both heaters have vents that put all exhaust from the furnace outside and they also use outside air for the combustion chamber. If they are not rusted through, they are perfectly safe. I would HIGHLY recommend purchasing a carbon monoxide detector. Battery operated ones can usually be purchased for under $25. I would have a CO detector in my camper no matter what type of furnace you have. Alot of people get confused when you tell them that your heater uses no electricity, they assume that you are using something without an outside vent.

I have obtained an extra heater for the eventuality of one of mine wearing out because they are very difficult to find. The best part about these ehaters is that I never hook up to any power and I always have heat.

You can PM or e-mail me if you want more information.

Bob Cupp

A few things-

I think I'm sold on the manual pump. That's actually what i was gonna replace anyways.

The heater is indeed fully vented to the outside and even the pilot light is sealed behind a thick glass plate. however, I have already gone onto ebay and gotten a CO detector- great advice!

As for the solar panels, I'm still going back and forth on this one... I'll let you know!

Btw, this community rocks!

My battery in my 1973 Compact II is in the original location under the right dinette seat. I'm using a sealed AGM battery for no maintenance and no gassing. The fuse panel should be located under the same seat on the wall side. I have 3 15 watt solar panels for 45 watts of solar power and a 7amp charge controller. By having 3 small panels there is more options on where to locate them on the roof. All the wires enter the trailer under the seam between the popup canvas and the fiberglass lower section. I have camped a week at a time with no hookups. Like Gina says get some low wattage led or cold cathode flouresents for lighting. A small 12 volt pump like the one I bought from JC Whitney complete with faucet and switch doesn't take much power to run. If you've ever tried to wash your hands while hand pumping you'll apreciate a 12 volt pump. Mike

Thanks for pointing out the convection heaters. I forgot about them because they ARE so rare.

I will not have nitemares about bad things happening to baby now

I have an atwood furnace with a fan, and have actually found it isn't as hard on the battery as I thought it would be. I set it very low (60) at nite and only hear it kick on once or twice. I have gotten used to sleeping with out heat, so it is actually a step up.

David, if you read the site I linked to about solar charging and conservation, you will find many "tips" that will apply to your situation. Many are just common sense things, but sometimes its good to read real world experience with stuff.

Even tho I have all the bells and whistles in my new trailer, I still practice MOST of these methods. A little more room and convinience does not mean I will limit myself to having an electrical cord nearby.

I am going out for 4 days next weekend without hook ups, and expect no issues. I ran for 3 days last weekend just on the solar, including using my shower every day, using my computer and using the TV. I had no power wants.

Actually my wife and I ran the camper from the battery for five days without problem BUT you must minimize draw on the battery by using the old fashioned kerosene lamp for exterior light, LED's for interior, the propane heater was used only to get the chill off in the morning and the frige running on propane. The portable PC was charged in the tug and our LCD TV viewing limited to less than an hour (news/weather) per day.

Hello David,

Congratulations on your keen purchase!

Please keep in mind your tongue weight and your Toyota Corolla tow vehicle. Battery location under the right side bench is likely still your best choice.

It is fantastic;
-that you found a trailer that suits your needs, especially fitting in a San Fransisco garage (If only there was a current day "San Francisco-Egg" model).
-that you found it almost local and had an adventurous one day trip.
-that you and I had fun rigging it to the Corolla. I hope in the future our families will meet at camping events!!

Sincerely,
-Flint

David,

Welcome to the world of FGC (FiberGlass Camping). It is not too difficult to calculate and get a rough idea of your electrical needs and what batteries and solar can provide. This is what you said above:

-2 - lights (guessing they are 18 watts each) = 36 watts x 2 hours per day = 72 watt hours

-1 - nightlight (guessing 8 watts) x 10 hours = 80 whrs

-1 - electrical water pump, 45 watts x .5 hours = 23 whrs

-1 - laptop (guessing 30 watts) / .8 (efficency of inverter) x 3 hours = 114 whrs

Total = 289 watt hours per day

Now we convert to amp-hours so we can look at battery capacity so divide by 12.6 volts = 23 amp hours. So that is what you are using each day.

Looking at the Exide battery you said you were interested in, it is rated at 100 minutes at 25 amps so that figures out at 25 x 100 / 60 minutes = 42 amp hours. Now you can only use about 50% of that so you don't damage the battery. That gives you 21 amp hours which you can see is about the amount of electricity you want to use each day. So you would only get one day out of the battery before needing to charge it.

Looking at a group 24 battery (comes standard on many trailers, but is lead acid so it needs to be vented to the outside or mounted outside), they are 85 amp hours / 2 = 43 amp hours available.

Going to the slightly larger group 27 battery - 105 amp hours / 2 = 53 amp hours. With those batteries you will get closer to two days per charge.

Now turning to solar, remember you need 289 watt hours per day. A rough approximation is that you can get 6 hours of sunlight per day (4 hours at full charge + 4 hours at half charge = 6 hours at full charge). Dividing 289 watt hours /6 hours = 48 watts. So you need to provide about 50 watts of solar to provide for your needs. You will also need to buy a solar controller so you don't cook your battery.

I hope that gives you a better idea about electricity. You can adjust the numbers above to more closely match your needs. Also, as others have pointed out, switching to LED lights etc can cut your usage down. Allow for cloudy days, being parked under a tree (if you mount a panel on the roof), or higher usages.

Good luck!

John

All of these replies are so helpful- you have no idea!

Gina, thanks for the concern you've shown- my little baby thanks you.

John and Sandy- I am thinking of all kinds of ways to minimize. If I do go the route of a cold cathode/ led light for a night light, do i have to install the wiring and if so, would it go directly to a fuse block running from the 12v?

Mike- thanks for advice on how to run the wires from the solar panels. I am thinking of starting with 15 watts and seeing how that does.

Flint- good to see you chime in here! Your advice and help has been priceless.

John- Thanks for breaking this down mathematically. I'm in the social sciences and all these conversions had hitherto been a bit fuzzy for me. So as I figure, I can charge my laptop and electronic devices (camera battery, etc.) in my car while driving... mostly. That leaves me with around 150 whrs per day if I am careful (150/12.6= 12 amp hours). Now, if I leave home with my battery fully charged that is 42 amp hours, around half of which I should consider usable (for the sake of the longevity of my battery). Let's say by the end of Day 1 I run it down to 30 amp hours. Thanks to a 15-watt solar panel, I could conservatively get 15watts X 5 hours full charge (it will be mounted on my roof so I won't be providing the perfect angle all the time) = 75 watt hours I will be returning to the batter (75/12.6 = 6 amp hours returned per day). That brings my 30 back to 36. So it would look like this:

Evening 1: Begin at 42 amp hours End at 30 amp hours
Evening 2: Begin at 36 amp hours End at 24 amp hours
Evening 3: Begin at 30 amp hours End at 18 amp hours
Evening 4: Begin at 24 amp hours Fourth night I could maybe run the night light

So as I figure, if I'm careful I could get 5 days, 4 nights with a 15-watt panel at approximately 150 whrs per day... I think

That was fun!

David,

When I was in college many years ago, my friends majoring in the social sciences were surprised at how much math they had to take. Your calculations look pretty good. The only issue is that you may have damaged your battery on evening 3 when you went below 21 amp hours (1/2 of 42) to 18. So you need to lower your usage and/or increase the size of your battery or solar. When I do my calculations, I divide by two right off. So I would start with 21 amp hours:

-Evening 1 - 21 amp hours - 12 = 9 amp hours
-Day 2 - 9 + 6 = 15 amp hours
-Evening 2 - 15 - 12 = 3 amp hours
-Day 3 - 3 + 6 = 9 amp hours
-Evening 3 - 9 -12 = power runs out in the middle of the night (or you damage battery)

There are several options you might consider:

-get a little led light that is battery operated and use rechargeable batteries to use as a night light. That would save a bunch of energy. Or you could get one of those solar-powered garden lights and leave it outside during the day or in a place that gets sun if you are driving.

-Get a little larger battery or a spare one.

-Get one of the "jump-start" battery sets for a backup. Some of them also have inverters which you could use to recharge your laptop etc on non travel days. The one I bought also has an air compressor built-in, which is handy out in the boondocks.

-Make your solar panel portable instead of mounting it on the trailer. That way you will have options of placement. Otherwise you know the best camping areas will all shade your trailer and solar panel. Make up an extension cord to connect it. Use a big gauge wire (the smaller the number, the bigger the gauge) to avoid voltage loss. If it was me, I would use 12 gauge wire. My new solar (2-85 watt panels) uses 8 gauge.

-Someday, if power is really important, you can add in one of the little 1000 watt Honda generators... pretty light and quiet (but not cheap).

Have fun with it!

John

David, I ran for a year on just 15 watts. I did so using nothing electric but lights. Everything else was battery or hand powered. I built up to my 60 watts as I could afford to.

LEDs and Cold Cathodes are very simple to install. If you get the right leds, they will work directly off of 12v, so you can just tap off any 12v line you have running from your fuse box. They draw little current, so it is safe to operate them in parallel with any other item that might be on the same circuit.

You will need to wire in a power switch, also very simple OR you can simply add a 12v ciggy lighter type plug onto the end of the line to the leds and plug it into a 12v outlet. The switch looks a tad nicer.

The cold cathods are just as easy, however, they have a small invertor they need to operate. High voltage, low low current capability. Most come with a power switch.

So I can't just put led lights into the existing 1141 sockets that are wired to the 12v system in the trailer?

On another note, if I do end up going solar, what do you think of this 60 Watt solar kit from Costco:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?...ec=&topnav=

It seems to have everything, including the 7 amp controller, an inverter, and even a crank light... all for $300 sounds pretty good!

okay, 4am and the little one is drifiting back to sleep!

David, yes, you can get drop ins. I get mine from Autolumination. They have just about everything under the sun (Excuse the pun)

I have seperate LED fixtures that are swithed so I can leave the incandescants intact and don't have to swap out bulbs. I rarely use the incandescants, even with shore power available, but I want them to be available just in case anyway.

The Costco kit looks great, tho I have heard tales of woe about the wire harness that comes with it. A couple members here bought one and had to redo the pigtail.

Those are the same panels I have, they work great. Mine was a 45 watt kit that came with a frame and it plugged right togther.

When I bought my 13 Scamp in Feb it only had 2 12V dome lights and an empty battery box much like yours David.

I picked up a group 27 Deep cycle marine battery at Wally for $59 and 2 year full replacement. Pretty good ratings on it and seemed to be the best deal out there. If you need it replaced certainly should be a Wally not too far from wherever ur at.

Got the LED's from Gina's recommended place and they are awesome. 2-LED Domes were $10 ea. Ordering LED replacement bulbs for my 4 individual $10 JC Whitney bullet reading lights and good to go. As Gina said they have just about every replacement LED and a chart to match it up.

Put in wiring blocks from Home Depot for about $3 to split my 12V into separate circuits.
Wally has in-line auto fuse blocks that are about $1 which make it really simple to put fuses between each circuit for next to nothing.

I've run the lights for over six hours while working and the battery doesn't even drop.
I am adding the shurflo water pump about $90 bucks for the system, and will probably pick up the solar soon.

I agree with Gina, even plugged in I would use the LED's. I really like the lighting.

Thanks Greg.

I was at Wally today and I think I bought that exact same battery (115 amp hours!). Shocking as it may be, the closest to me is about 20 miles away but I bit the bullet since the batteries are so cheap (and I needed some other stuff).

I am pretty lost now, though excited to learn. So I have the battery and am apparently ready to do the wiring. I just would love to understand fully the next step. I am conceptually "with it" and understand that the battery will supply the source to a fuse box (though I have NO idea what kind) and from there I can run wires to my existing 12v system as well as things like inverters (and a pump if I want it later). While there's a Home Depot closer than the Walmart, I'm just not sure how the whole system should look, what kind of wire will leave the battery to the box, what kind of box to get, what kinds of fuses I'll need, etc. God this sounds like a post from a 15-year old. What did Socrates say about being smart is equivalent to knowing nothing? God, I feel like a genius.

thanks for bearing with me everyone... This reminds me of when I moved to Germany and, though I had good intentions, I simply couldn't speak the language.

David,

Here are the dome led's:

http://autolumination.com/fixtures.htm

Here are the reading bullets:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product...0007211/c-10107

LED bulbs to replace #1003 in the reading bullets

http://autolumination.com/otherleds.htm

I put this 4 switch in at the dinette end wired all the new 12V lighting through it and can control the lighting in the entire egg from bed: (4 and 6 year old in the bunks at other end)

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ItemBro...ID:100000221218

Wally in the RV aisle at ours:

Bussman ATC Blade Fuseholder They are wired with a #12 wire already to connect right in and plug in a 1-30amp Buss ATC fuse Whatever size Buss ATC fuses you need. I'm mostly using 10Amp.

30 amp Junction box at home depot in the wiring/computer aisle. They have various sizes but I'm using two four post one at front and one at the back to junction and split my circuits.

Couple of boxes of #10 Spade Terminals to hook up wires to the junction box.

Bunch of 14 ga wire -- Home Depot. I'm staying with Black and White which matches what already came in from the battery.

Couple of boxes of splice connectors- home depot

Bunch of wire nuts and electrical tape--home depot

Screw the Junction boxes to the plywood floor in convenient easy access locations, then wire one side completely hot from the battery White/Black White/Black. On the other side of the junction box pull your circuits in that end of the trailer and wire in a Buss ATC fuse holder on the black wire going to each set of equipment. IE to refrigerator White/Black with Buss fuse holder wired on the Black line.

If you print this out and go over to Home Depot they could probably work you through how to do it and different options. This is just how I am handling it and there are some really creative folks here in this forum that do some pretty incredible solutions. Of course, you can get creative as well, like my switch at the bed controlling the entire egg, etc.

Hope this helps give you some ideas. Sounds like you found the same battery at Wally.

Thanks a ton Greg. I will print this out and get to work!