Hi all, I'm currently a full time teacher with plans to be a full time Scamper. I can make $600 per month tutoring on line or even substitute teaching (if I was desperate). There are other money making options as well, but that isn't really the intent of this post. Could I realistically live on $600? I have no debts or need for health insurance.

What does it take you fulltimers to live on per month? What are your major expenses? What unknown expenses seem to crop up every month?

Thanks,

Al

Like other parts of life, it depends more on your needs and what you are willing to tolerate. For example, if you are willing to wander from WalMart to WalMart, your CG $ will be zero, but your fuel will be high. Conversely, if you insist on five-star RV parks with full hookups, your CG $ will be high.

The right schools might find you a place to camp and double as night watchman. If you are going to tutor on line, you will need internet access and perhaps a cell phone.

Camp hosting will save a bunch, but you will be tied down and most places only have seasonal stuf.

I met a guy fulltiming on a bicycle in Nevada, camping in the desert. Fuel and camp fees were zero.

Of course you are correct on all counts. I guess I'm looking to hear what others experiences are in full timing. Especially your experiences since we are both minimalists and I'll be using the same sort of trailer.

I'll probably split my time between boondocking in National Forests during the summer and living in parks the rest of the year. I'd like to stay between New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, most of the year, staying at each park for one month to save on fuel and take advantage of low monthly rates. The first year I plan to take a much needed break, do some writing, and examine what life is all about. Don't plan on working the initial year (maybe volunteering or canoe guiding for fun)

Just thinking out loud.

It seems like $600 per month would be very tight. As a point of reference here are some numbers.

Monthly fees for an RV park at $11/day = $330 ±
Food at $13.50 per day (my costs - breakfast, lunch, dinner) = $405 ±
Mileage at 12,000 per year = 1,000 per month @ $.50 per mile (gas, oil, insurance, etc.) = $500 ±
That is $1,235 and does not include Clothes, computer, toll-roads, oil changes, etc. etc.

Thanks Mike, $600 does seem low. Of course I'd cut the food and mileage in half easily, but the ect's can pile up.

I remembered an earlier discussion... that had links that led to links... that I followed and did quite a bit of reading. I will save a lot of intermediate searching; this talks some about budgeting and trying to live really cheaply:

Cheap RV Living

Consider Medical Insurance
Medicare permiums run about $400 per month (part B hospital, F supplemental, D persciptions) plus additional that is NOT paid for by Medicare or the co-pay.

Do you have something else that fills that need?

Health insurance is invaluable. You can get sick or be in a accident real fast.

Yeah, That is an excellent site. This guy knows how to live cheaply. Unlike him, I might not boondock fulltime, but who knows?

Appreciate the link, it's good to know the experiences of others in order to tie them into my own plan.

As far as medical insurance goes? I've had it for years, never helped me at all if fact: Doctors charged me more per visit then If I claimed no insurance. It is a scam.

But if stuff really hits the fan I'd wish I had it... I'm willing to take that chance...

Medical insurance isn't for piddling stuf like doctor visits; it's for big stuf like cancer -- A tumor on my tongue wound up costing more than $45K, with the surgery and radiation... I'm waaay ahead of my historical insurance costs.

Dunno how old you are, but if you are 62 or have disabilities, you may qualify for one of the Federal passes that will generally get you a 50% discount at Natl Park/Forest campgrounds. BTW, many of the campgrounds and the forests have stay limits, so that's got to be researched.

Maybe I can get some less expensive catastrophic insurance plan for the big things.

No not old enough to qualify for the discount. The National Forest up here in Utah charge nothing for boondocking but limit you to 14 days stay limits. Most boondockers drive 10 miles up the road then camp for another 14 days. BLM land is even more generous.

It varies from place to place - Here's a sign from San Juan NF:

Click to view attachment in CO.

Note that those are AIR miles, not road miles, so it is difficult to find another place in the SJNF. Similar restrictions are also found in the other nearby NF and BLM, however, with planning and avoiding weekend movement, it is possible to move between the three without problem.

I noticed that Colorado was particularly restrictive compared to some places, so there is likely some state influence going on. For example, the Natl Rec Area at Lake Meade NV allows 60 or 90 days in one year in the entire rec area, (but the year starts when you leave, so you can't spend the same three months every year...

I believe that all restrictions of this kind are National Forest Federal Regulations. Many NFS regulations are written in such a manner that the individual Forest Supervisor can invoke the regulations or not as he/she sees fit. These are part of the same regulations that allow for National Forest closure when there's a fire. Most of these types of regulations are not invoked unless there's a perceived need.

at age 43, I had a lung removed.. it ain't just "Seniors" that need it.

Just the hospital stay alone, without follow ups or surgeons fees was... 1/2 million. Fortunately, I was insured and my out of pocket thus far has been less than 1000 even after 5 years of diagnostics, expensive scans and tests and follow ups.

A year ago, my company changed insurers. I was given a choice of Kaiser or another provider. The "other" provider had a million dollar lifetime cap. I asked the rep how much chemo would take up should I recur. She hung her head low and mumbled "All of it".

Anything can happen at any time. The insurance is the biggest hold back for me going full time right now. I am grandfathered in and covered.. if I leave my current plan, it will be absolutely impossible to be insured privately for any recurrences. The 5 year cure is medically valid, unfortunately, insurance can deny covering your condition for recurrances anyway when buying privately. (They can't in an HMO.. but that requires you are in a group, usually meaning a "Job".)

Bottom line, I am screwed. When I go fulltime, I will have to be under a government programmed insurer in a state risk pool, at a very high premium. Get the insurance now and don't worry about the pennies. It's the mass dollars you should be very scared of.

Thanks for the good advice Gina, I hope you never have a need to use that insurance again. I hope you are cured permanently.

Cheers,

Al

well here is my 2 cents worth..

You might be able to get by on $600 especially if you find places you can stay for periods of time and taking a few side jobs occassionally as you mentioned.. have you thought of going south of the border as in Mexico..there are beaches there within a days drive and you could definately get by there swinging in your hammock..working online.. eating tacos and such.. also if you buy your own food and cook in your egg you will save alot as you know.. I think your biggest expense will be gas...

After you start your journey you will begin to find similiar minded folks that will tell you where to go to camp for free and perhaps people could give you a place to park on their land in exchange for some work of some sort..

There are many many possibilities out there!!! What can it hurt to try!!! Before you know it we will be reading your posting of how you travelled the country on $600 a month in style!!! I wish you the best of luck!! Dee

Thanks Dee, Lots of food for thought. The Mexico idea would be fun for sure. I know gas prices would curtail the movement, however; my tow vehicle was getting around 21 miles per gallon pulling a 2000 pound trailer this past summer. As far as food goes? Rice and lentils can go far, throw in the occasional fish..No problem. Using a bicycle for running errands, going to gargage sales for books. It can be done for sure.

My suggestion is sorta "try before you buy." Try to live on $600 a month now. If you have a mortgage or rent payment, don't count that into the figure (or any of the utility expenses related to the home) ... but do set aside whatever amount you think you'd need of the $600 to pay for any campground "fees." Then start in, no fair touching anything but that $600. Food, gas, insurance, oil changes, etc. And see how it goes. It's not a definitive answer, but if you find you're up around $750, then at least you may have a better idea if this is doable.

My experience is that the regs are NOT federal in nature, but written by whoever administers that particular gummint facility (although there are some general regulations), esp when it comes to stay limits. Yes, however, it's up to that administration to enforce (or not enforce) them. My feelings, from traveling around in the Western Colorado area, was that there was a decided tendency to restrict the stay limits.

That said, I did waaay overstay the limit in one camp ground; I was friendly with the camp hosts, occasionally made myself useful, certainly wasn't a problem, didn't hog the best sites and hardly ever made a campfire (one of the contract host's jobs was to clean EVERY firepit EVERY day, due to fire danger status). I also camped over the limit at a dispersed site in the same area. BUT, one can't count on being able to do that.

BTW, here's a list of the federal agencies that have CGs on some of their land, and not all are under the same federal regs as the natl forests, even to the point of charging or not charging admission fees:

Natl Parks and Monuments and Seashores and Lakeshores
Nat Recreation Areas
Natl Forest
Bureau of Land Management
Bureau of Reclaimation
Corps of Engineers
Tennessee Valley Authority
Natl Wildlife Service

Enforcement or not enforcement is not always the case. Sometimes it's choosing to implement then choosing to enforce or not enforce. Posting the signs indicates implementation, kicking you out or fines is then enforcement. Subtle difference, but still different.

Each agency listed above have different regulations and manage the lands differently for different purposes. National Parks, Monuments, Seashores, Lakeshores, BLM, Bureau of Reclamation, and National Wildlife Reserves are part of the Department of Interior. National Forest is part of the Department of Agriculture. TVA is TVA and reports directly to Congress. Corp of Engineers is part of the US Army. So there's bound to be a lot of difference in regulations. For recreation purposes BLM and FS seem to be combined lately.

Hi Al,
You are not the first to head out across the country on a tight budget..i actually I did it when i was 17 and ended up living in a VW camper for over 15 years even going between working in the canneries in Alaska and flying to Hawaii in the winters and I had a bus on each end!! I also had a toyota with overhead camper at one point.. i always looked at a vehicle in sleeping terms!!

I was the queen of thrift but i also worked and worked hard in between adventures!! now i am older and have a scamp and i am not a fulltimer but i do have some experience in this sort of thing!!

Settle in one spot as long as possible and use a bike!!! Stay in warm areas!! Work a bit at odd jobs..it is a great way to socialize and also make a few extra $$ it wouldn't take much to boost that $600 up a bit and make your trip more enjoyable!!

Try getting on Amazon and read about others adventures, this may help alleviate any worry ...

Try Ten consecutive years living in a car by Craig Roberts

Support your RV lifestyle Jamie Hall

Living on Practically Nothing ~~and others!!! good luck.. Dee

Dee,

I think you need to write a book.... bet you have a lot of stories to tell.

Back in the 80s I had a couple friends who bought a small, beat-up motor home and struck out on an adventure together. Ran into them years later at a science fiction convention. They were still living in their small motor home, but had visited every continental state and Canadian province, seen every national park, visited every major art museum in the country. They worked minimum-wage jobs part-time when they parked somewhere, managed to save about 1/4 of their respective take-home cash, and that beat-up motor home? Five years later and it still looked like h*ll on the outside, but the inside was a stylish, if super-compact, studio apartment. I always envied their gusto . . .

Thanks for the good advice Dee. I bike everywhere now so that won't be tough. I have a decent job presently but I feel that life is passing me by and want to gain some experiences before it's all over. Does this make sense? I agree with the "settle in one place as long as possible" advice, it's the cheapest way to go.

Who knows: Maybe taking a couple years off from teaching and living on the road will give me new appreciation for what I got now. The time is right for a sabbatical at this point.

I say if you don't have pressing obligations..live in the moment!! Give it a go and i would love to hear about it!!! if you don't have enough $$ you will find a way to make a few more!!

i am leaving here this next week to head to warmer climates for 6-8 weeks..some of it will be on the coast of Mexico..in a place called Huatabambito..i will be eating shrimp with garlic and butter/ salad and rice for $5.00 dollars.... Tacos for $2.00 and then those wonderful freshly squeezed carrot/ beet and green juices!!!! Hope all goes well for you, Al..

When are you thinking of going and what area will you explore first?? Dee

Early into my engineering career my employer experienced an almost complete drawdown of needed work at the site I was assigned. Leave without pay was encouraged, as was temporary reassignment at other sites across the nation.

My wife and I took as much advantage of that as possible, pulling a Compact Jr. with a Peugeot 404 station wagon (1.6 liter, 2500 lb. vehicle). We traveled in most of the lower 48 over a couple of years, worked about half-time on each of the coasts, etc. My employer did continue health insurance.

The end of this was a combination of parenthood and plenty of work by my employer. I am now retired. However I am glad for those years that I was able to experience a bit of the free-to-go life style.

If I were starting out again and were strongly attracted to full-timing, I would choose a career that would support my lifestyle. At the time we were doing this, had we both been registered nurses (my wife was), we could have carried on through retirement age with little financial concern. I believe that occupation is still in great demand about everywhere you go. There are likely others, if you check things out.

In this day and age, the internet provides a lot of potential earning power that wasn't available in my age. On a recent trip I ran into a fellow with a nice Airstream camped in a county park in Texas for a week or so. He was retired, but produced more income trading stocks and other securities than he was making before he retired. He was quite accomplished and disciplined at this, trading on either the long or short side as appropriate.

I'm sure there are other ways to add to that $600. The point is, consider the $600 as your fall-back. Whatever extra you make, enjoy it to the fullest, donate appropriate amounts to those less fortunate and provide a financial cushion for your own time of need.

Good luck.

Mexico would be nice right now. I'm in Utah at the moment and it's been a bit chilly. I'm off for the summer on June 1st, then plan to camp in the mountains around here for a month in my old truck camper. I'll have until July 1st to decide whether to quit my job, so I'll have the luxury of a one month trial period. If I decide to full time it long term I'll buy a scamp and pull it with my Volvo, since my truck and camper are getting long in the tooth.

Where would I like to go? Utah, New Mexico, Texas, and Mexico are my favorite places. I would also like to take a trip to Northern Canada at some point.

What a cool story. Yeah I've been a single dad for 15 years and I understand parenting. My youngest is almost out of high school and I can't wait to be free. I gave my house in Texas to my daughter this past August (always have a free place to park!), and moved up here to Utah to seek freedom of the home ownership thing, and live near National Park land. I live so cheaply now without a house to fix it's amazing! Getting rid of the house is often the biggest step toward fulltiming, my next step will be to get rid of the job, I might wait a year to save up some more money, but it's not necessary to do so.

Thanks for the pointers,

Al

Going by your two criteria—it’s doable. I’ve been full timing in a Casita for two years for under $800 a month. Mostly boondocking and dry camping in national forests and on BLM land in Utah and Arizona. I generally get a seasonal part time job for a few months a year. This year I’ll be teaching a silversmithing class up in Park City, UT in the spring and then working as a host in two primitive campgrounds in the Wasatch.

My gasoline expenses are pretty low since I’m not into traveling the asphalt; definitely not a car-potato. I really enjoy the Outdoors so my traveling is in my hiking boots on trails. Having a rig that can get down the dirt roads and double-tracks is priceless.

At some point I’ll get a solar panel. Presently I can go three or four days before the house battery needs an hour of charging from the Honda 1000. Only had two weeks or so of hookups in the last three months.

Didn’t find out about the NM state park pass until recently. It’s a hard deal to pass up for the winter season. You no doubt can guess where I’ll be next winter.

Expenses also depends on how you spend your time, how you eat, if you have pets, and little stuff like this that can add up. Look at your bank and charge card statements to get a realistic look at where the money is going each month.

You can check my last post if you are interested in this lifestyle:

http://www.casitaclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9916
OR http://www.casitaclub.com/forums/index.php...643&hl=road

It can be a hoot but it’s definitely not for most people.

Sebastian

I read your casitaclub post. You're living the good life. I don't think there's anything better than getting in touch with our wild and wonderful neighbors. Moon light walks are such fun. One of neatest walks was around a lake in the moon light, no flashlights.

I see you're also into geocaching. That's also a great outdoor activity, I've been doing that since April 1 2001. Would you believe it, found my first cache on April fools day, been a fool ever since.

I hope our paths cross sometime.

Now back to your regular scheduled topic. Budgeting - I don't have much to offer there.