I would like to ask for help for what I call "Elegance of Behavior". What do I mean by that?

I've noticed a tendency to jump on posts with which people don't agree. RVing is a very personal experience. People from the Northeast see RVing much differently than people from Arizona. Same holds true for people in the Northwest or Canada compared to the Southwest. Full Timers have totally different needs and characteristics than weekenders. Who is right and who is wrong? I would say neither.

I posted a long time ago about adding a generator to my trailer. I almost got flamed on my own site. What is that all about? How and when I use it is my responsibility in showing good citizenship and low impact in the area I'm in. To that, I have fired up my little EU2000i Honda generator to cook dinner and to make sure my medical equipment battery was ready for the night at 11 PM. I was parked in a Flying J truck stop next to 18 wheelers running their refers and idling their 500 horse power diesel engines. After driving 500 miles, I like to relax, unwind, and watch the news and weather on TV. Would I run my generator at 11 PM next to someone in a forestry park using solar? NO.

I visit other websites which have all types of behavior. Some sites jump on people no matter what they post. This causes people to NOT feel comfortable joining in and becoming part of the group. In contrast, on other sites there is the feeling you can ask any question and feel people will help direct you in the right direction or at least give you options.

When someone posts something you disagree with, what is the best way to respond? I have seen Bolers painted colors I would not do. I ask myself, "Why would they do that?" I know I do things others would never do, but it fits MY NEEDS and CHARACTERISTICS. When I post, it is to share what I have learned or to ask questions.

I have an internet-based business. When I camp, I need to be able to support my customers - otherwise, I cannot go camping. How do I do that the most cost effective way and still have high speed connectivity - WiFi, EVDO, Satellite, what? Some people think it is sacrilegious to take technology camping.

My point is, PLEASE SUPPORT or LEARN; don't argue and don't blast someone just because it is not your lifestyle. If you feel the practice is or may be unsafe, answer in such a way they feel you are trying to help and care about them. Also remember, what is the norm in your little part of the world may not be so in the rest of world.

I know that, by and large, most of you do show "Elegance of Behavior" and I really appreciate it. We have recently had a rash of posts the Moderators have had to deal with, and I felt we should have a Fire Side Chat.

Thanks for listening,
Mike

I hear you loud and clear Mike. I will have to admit though that common decency and respect seem to be MUCH more prevelant on this forum than any I have ever been a part of. Perhaps it is due to the fact that the average age here is higher than most places I frequent. I'm not saying that you don't have a valid point. I have not yet seen the type of attitude that you mention. But from a newbies perspective I feel you have built a very great community of people that are very eager to help others. That is something you should be proud of. I know I appreciate it more than you know. Two months ago I never thought that the sites I had previously wasted entirely too much time on would be replace by a site about fiberglass RVs!!

What you seem to be addressing here is a flaw in human behavior that seems to be magnified by computer technology. You assemble this many people and let them hide behind a computer monitor and they will act and say things that they would never act out or say when face to face. Have you seen that commercial from Allstate (I believe) where they are telling you to view others in traffic as you would people in your home, and by doing so they hope to encourage people to be more considerate drivers. They show a a family having dinner at a table in the middle of the interstate to make the point? Someone should make a similiar commercial about the internet reminding folks that there are real live people on the other end of their monitors.

Thanks for what you do Mike!

Mike, (and all)

I have had such a great three years on this site with minimal yuck. Let alone have met some terrific people that I feel are a wonderful influence on my children. Thank you for the direct and gentle reminder.

Sharon

Thanks for the reminder, Mike! Well put, and I will do my best to take it to heart.

I sometimes visit other forums, and I must say that this one is a cut above. Much appreciated!

Well spoken Mike. I like this forum because it IS the nice forum.

I'm not deterred by someone's negative rebuke or adverse opinion. My response is simply no response at all. I've noticed that same non-response by others on occassion, often with the result that no one pays any more attention to it, the negative thread dies and the positive discussion continues.

Problem is: moderators do such a good job that we rarely see any of the problems you are referring to. I haven't been following this RV forum all that long yet, but I can tell you that I have pretty much dumped all the other ones I had in my bookmarks. To me, this is as good as it gets so far, and I am very much impressed with the moderator team here. I would add, however, that I personally don't mind seeing conflicting opinions/lifestyles/worlds bump into each other from time to time, as they provide a way to see things from a completely different angle and there is often a lot to be gained from that. Also, I think that part of the problem happens when readers take other people's comments too seriously. (If the shoe doesn't fit...) That being said, I think that you handle problems well here and your message is a perfect example of it.

Thank You for the feed back.

My hope is that differing experiences and knowledge continue. When ALL information is expressed, it gives the whole of us perspective and a way to make informed decisions. Keep all the opinions coming, just keep them kind and helpful.

The way the differing information is expressed, and why, is what I talking about.

What we need to do is to NOT put someone down for wanting to do something or asking a question. My view is to offer facts that give information on point.

i.e. Can my Smart car pull a Casita? I believe most of us with much towing experience would start thinking Tow Ratings, Braking, etc. How do we help the person asking the question in such a way they come to a safe conclusion?

Thanks for taking the time to consider these perspectives.

Way to go Mike...

I would like to know why some can make a very liberal and {politically correct} statements that are tolerated by the moderators but a more conservative view point, expressed in a respectful manner, is not tolerated and deleted?
Respectful debate on subjects that are very important to our lifestyle could be very interesting and educational.
I think more judgement should be used when deleting posts and locking threads.
The respectful and helpful manner in which most members express themselves is what makes this a great group.

John

I have to say that Mike has a very valid point..... I thought it was just me. I have been on these fiberglass forums for awhile now and have to say i never had any incidents on this site.....first class all the way
On a very few occasions on the other sites people got downright insulting to others. Opinions posted are just that "Opinions" and they are there for reference to compare to your notes. I really like to hear different Opinions But what i've seen is "Namecalling" when someone has a different view.I like to treat people "Nice" and not berate them in front of others. Like they used to say back in the Seventies:"Can't we all just get along"
Great Site Mike.....Thanks for the effort.
Joe

Thanks John, Next Question...



Really though, that is a good question John. I have asked people from as Diverse a Background, RV type, and Location as I could to be Moderators. That being the case, we all come with baggage and differing World Views.

The overriding philosophy is No Preach'n, No Politic'n, No Sell'n and NO Flame'n and to grow the Fiberglass RV community for the benefit of all.

Now when a thread is NOT about Fiberglass RVs, it is then about Building Community. Thus we have Jokes, Around the Camp Fire etc. If it affects our RVing and starts getting controversial, then it is evaluated based on "Will this benefit the Website?" (very subjective)

If a Post or Thread becomes tense, augmentative, ugly, it is moved to my "Back Room" and discussed by all the Moderators. We vote on it and in many cases I'm out voted. Even though I can overrule the leadership team, I rather have them as a group make any decision. My World View is open to learning.

I have had one of my post deleted. I have had several of my posts edited. I encourage Moderators to Edit what I write. They see things I do not. Nothing I post is so important it can't be made better.

What we ask is, if you have a problem with a thread or post, email or PM a Moderator. We will deal with it. Our hope is that this website does not become a soap box for pushing a cause. That is not what we are about.

I hope I have answered your question.

PS: If anyone feels the need to take this further, please PM me.

Mike, you captured this topic very well. I will expand this topic a little hopefully within the limits of being perceived as too philosophical but certainly neither right nor left.



I believe that this problem of lack of courtesy runs a little deeper in our society than some rudeness on public forums. Most of forums’ black or white biased views are simply the continuation of media opinionative feeds. Polarizations in our society run deep by politics, subjects and media. Politics by wedging our society are painfully common and greatly propagated by our media. Some times I feel like living in the black and white world with no grey scale; that is worse then “Pleasantville”. Media thinks that society is not capable of digesting the gray scale so they feed us with black and white images appropriate for an IQ of 75. Once the picture is dummied up by stripping the gray scale, I can no longer use my own judgment. I am retired, 59 years old and have never seen in my family or professional corporate life situations which are purely black or white. Bell curves govern our realities. Just as media presents us with heavily polarized “news” we continue the same concept in forums discussions.
Raw data information, used to called news, pretty much vanished from our media except breaking sky view news of vehicles running away on LA Highways. Sorry for getting philosophical, it is my hot topic.



This forum is the breeze of fresh air in civility. Great kudos to all of us and especially to our moderators for staying on subject of Fiberglass Eggshells.



George.

I too have bookmarked this site and often check threads I have joined. I especially appreciate the willingness of members to offer suggestions and/or help for trailering issues. Thank you Moderators... your attention to the general tone of the site gives me the confidence to ask dumb (but important to me!) questions and offer small suggestions. As a newby to fiberglass the information and conversations have been invaluable! Helen

Good post Mike.

I joined this forum in about 2000, when I purchased my first trailer, being a Boler. I found great news and advise from members, and try to reciprocate when I can. I find that RVing is good for my psyche, since taking on a high pressure occupation a few years ago, and look for times of peace and relaxing and communing with nature that the RV affords me. As my interest in trailers has grown and I got the 'bug', I have changed rigs and tow vehicles accordingly. As I am hopefully within 2 to 3 years of retiring from my current job, I have purchased my most expensive trailer, thinking that I can stay in it for long periods and have the reliability of a fibreglass trailer.

I recognize that members are probably folks like me, being mostly hobbyists and do what they do to enjoy their pastimes. I feel it unfair for me to criticize or offer offending comment, but do take out of discussions what will work for me.

I really appreciate you setting up this site Mike as well as the volunteer moderators, and are indebted to suggestions made by members over the years.

Rick B

This forum has been an inspiration to me from day one. I have learned so much from it that I can't help but feel lead to contribute to it when I can, and I'm forever telling others about it as THE place to learn about our little glass eggs. I've subscribed to other forums, all about Camping, Scamp Trailers, Ham Radio, as well as other topics. But I don't frequent them at all as much as the time I spend here.

The civility, friendliness, and vast communitity of information found in this forum is what draws me here every day.

Mike, and all the moderators, y'all do a GREAT job!

ConwayBob

Mike, I, too have been a member of this "community" for many years, if an infrequent poster. There are two things I have noticed over that time.

Like in a community, we don't all have the same taste or level of expertise, so we all won't like the same posts or the same posters. I wouldn't think of skipping "sightings" or "Show us your Rigs" as soon as I see a new posting. However, I usually get that glazed-eyed expression when reading through some of the techical stuff (what the heck is an amp anyway?).

Also, it is really difficult to type "funny" at times. What the poster may think is a comment made tongue firmly in cheek may come across as "snotty" regardless of the rolly emoticons. I have to watch that tendency in myself. More than once, I have had to do a quick edit, as what I said wasn't what I meant, or at least didn't sound like it.

That said, it is the most civil group I've encountered, and I would welcome any of it's members into my rig for a cup of coffee and a biscuit any day.

Mike!!!!
See ya in May, Chuck

Keep on keeping us all in check, because that keeps us spreading the RV knowledge without it becoming personal. This is a good community.

There are plenty of other forums where we can get nasty if we feel a need to do that (Like the Usenet forum rec.outdoors.rv-travel, where threads longer than about ten posts deteriorate into the same folks calling each other the same rude names and the vast majority of posts are Off Topic).

I must have missed the particular post in question.

I'll have to agree with the bulk of previous posts here that, in all honesty, this group easily has the lowest "incident" rate of ANY forum or discussion group I've been a part of - ever. Credit for that goes to quite a few people; Mike S, the moderator team and the members themselves all should share.

Generators DOES seem to be one of those topics that results in some very emotional responses though. It's kinda like bringing up the "Loud pipes" or "Helmet laws" issues in a motorcycle forum. Very on-topic, so you'd hate to ban the discussion but people seem to have some very strong feelings about it - and some are incapable of engaging in polite conversation about it. It's a REAL shame though when someone lets their opinions for or against some object or practice, spill over onto the people who engage in the practice. There IS a difference. It's just a matter of maintaining your respect for someone while you have a difference of opinion with them.

Mike

A couple of days ago,was stuck at home cause I didn't feel good, and I had some extra time at home on the computer. I saw a few responses that were kind of nasty, not well thought out.... probably never would have been posted if the posters had let their posts sit in preview for fiteen minutes and reread them ...
anyway, these posts appeared, then dispappeared , all in a matter of an hour.... the moderaters on this board do a wonderful job. Some other boards let things get way out of hand.
All the moderators deserve a round of applause for their volunteer time...

My read on this thread ...Let's all look carelully at what we write, look again and reconsider, and try to be our OWN moderators. Save these nice people some work.

I love this forum, and have learned a lot. Many of the people here have way more experience than I do, but no on e has ever given me a hard time on my contributions or questions. I won't post on something on which I have no personal knowlege, but my questions may be a little verbose. Sorry.

Hope to meet all of you somewhere. Some of the nicest people on the internet post here!
Sherry

I do try to keep my remarks lighthearted and I'm sorry if doing so offends anyone but, it does seem like any suggestion on a topic brings out the nay-sayers. Who then spiel off paragraphs to proudly reinforce their opposite view. I love to read the ideas, good and bad, and have adopted some for personal use. The other ones are not rejected but just put on a back burner The posts that say "This is the ONLY way" and those that say "I'm right, you're wrong" are imediatly dismissed from thought and not re-read.
I said a lot more here and rejected it.
I vented a lot of fury and erased it.
I got quite emotional and used the backspace button .
I feel better now!

i wish this was the rule on other forums i frequent...
what i like most about this forum is the collective sense of community that comes from discussions staying "on task"... the result is that every topic is worth reading & learning from...
my only "complaint", (if you can call i that) is that Elegance Of Behavior can make people too polite, too agreeable, & stifle creative thoughts/ideas... i firmly believe in politeness, especially on the internet where words can be easily misconstrued...
i recently posted about my plans to tow my trailer with a 4 cylinder tercel, & was met with only mild resistance to the idea... i was seeking input from people with experience & knowledge on the subject, but i got the impression that sometimes we are reticent to be detractors/nay-sayers...
i'm new to the fgrv modifying scene, & i would rather not learn from expensive mistakes...
but i guess we do have the option of requesting more input contrary to our ideas...
--- steven

Good point Steven. What I think has been missed is that it is OK to disagree. The point is to disagree without being disagreeable. When it gets personal, it is out of bounds.

We have one member that thinks only Liberal views are tolerated. That is not the case. Conservative views about camping, pulling trailers, modifying, etc are totally OK. My view is that it should NOT get personal as in name calling, etc. I know that we all feel very passionate about different things. The point is to share your views in a way that is informational and not emotional.

We as Moderators have very diverse views and none of the Moderators are shy about mentioning them. We all respect each other and it NEVER gets personal.

We just had a very lively discussion about whether we should allow the word "Crap" on the permanent written record in the Forums. Sometimes what you say in life is and should be different then the permanent written record. So we change terms like "Holy crap" to "Holy smokes". It does not change the meaning of the post.

The point is we want this website to be easy to read and have value. Does this make sense?

Better than BLEEP BLEEP

Mike.
I think this is a helpful and informative discussion. I'm interested in knowing if, when a post is edited or deleted, the poster is notified? If I have offended the moderators or anyone else, it was unknowingly and I would appreciate being advised of my transgression.
I find the forum overall wonderfully welcome and informative and it's one of the first places I check I every day. As someone who is way on the left on the political spectrum I would say that you do accept and post conservative viewpoints, just as you should.
Bravo to an informed and informative website and a big THANK YOU to the moderators who make it so.
cheers
Ian

To be honest, no, we don’t give feedback automatically. We did at first and it turned out to be the wrong thing to do.

What we found is that we got all kinds of responses. Things like “How dare you.”, “This is a Free country, you can’t do that.”, “Thank you, I had second thoughts”, or just plain confrontation. I was even threatened once.

Then, there are those that want to find something to fight about. Whether it is with me or a Moderator, we are all volunteers and don’t have time or want a fight. We have lost several good Moderators because of visitors’ attitudes.

If someone PM’s us and asks what happened, I try to explain (if I know). Sometimes Moderators take care of something and I’m at work or still asleep. Thus I really don’t know. The way I look at it is, we are all trying to create a wonderful place to share and if we make a mistake, don’t take it too seriously.

I was reminded that if a Moderator wants to post “edited” it is OK and up to them.

Thanks, and let me reiterate, you all do a great job.
cheers
Ian

you can't put a price on experience or information and if people get flamed or slapped in a post then the less likely the sharing continues... at last check i don't think a real know it all has yet been found...
I find this sites sharing of broad knowledge and the quality of people at the top, hense its the first site in my favorites.
Keep up the good work.!
Ian S.

as a somewhat newish and fairly infrequent poster, i am not 100% sure "my" opinion is that important...

That said, here goes...

Life is also exemplified by the old 80 / 20 rule. 80% are nice 20% less so. And 80% of the problems come from the 20%.
The percentage certainly varies by topic and situation, but the overall issue has some validity. "a few" folks cause an inordinate amount of ruckus. Always have, always will. My own faith teaches that every member of the body is just as important as every other member.. an eye is no good without a heart withoug lungs without... you get it. And I have found that **by extension** even the rectums of the world have value and purpose. (think of the body analogy... without that, life would become VERY uncomfortable in a few days...) That said, the flip side is that there can also be cancer in the body that needs to be removed. So life becomes a balance.

What was one of the pieces of wisdom our moms taught us? "Just ignore them". If you find a poster with whom you normally disagree, do not click on his/her posts! if you run across one that really sets you off, take a deep breath (or go have a margarita or whatever YOU need to calm down), then move on. Don't even respond. It is just a forum. NOTHING said here will change the world ONE IOTA. it is just your opinion, and theirs, and his and hers and mine. Nothing more, Nothing less.

I have found this forum to be WONDERFUL. The range if info is so enormous. WOW - and kudos for ALL who contribute. and a SPECIAL thanks to teh moderators who spend the time to keep things on track.

Blessings to all... even the rectums! Lol/

Length of time you have been a member has no bearing on the importance of your opinion.. of course, it is important. Well stated and respectful opinions are always welcomed, no matter how long you have been here.

and your post was very well done. Thank you!

Hi:" A discriminating irreverance is the creator and protector of human liberty." Samuel Langhorne Clemens (Mark Twain)
I have been on both sides of this issue and realize we can be worlds apart yet still inhabit this space!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

I love this site, even though I sold my Boler some time ago I still look in here often.
My current camper is a 74 Apache Solid State pop-up which is ABS plastic, no fibreglass so hope I don't get flamed now
Among the vintage RV sites that I belong to I rate this one high up, keep up the good work

This was a wonderful 'sticky' to read. It seems that more and more, people insist that their particular lifestyle or way of doing things is the best. I notice this to a high degree in people of my generation (born in the 70s and early 80s). I remember one time I cooked pizza and my guests told me that they have a pizza stone and that I should have used one too. Well, maybe I don't want to use a pizza stone...

I could go on with similar examples, but let's keep this positive.

But my point is, reading your original post made me realize that this is truly a great community to be a part of. Glad I found you, even though I haven't found a camper!