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Greg Finke
Since there hasn't been much ado about our state get together lately, I thought I would revive this thread and get the blip back up on the radar again. A few folks have commented in another thread here about having another one. So, let's talk about it... Please bring up your suggestions, reasons, thoughts, etc. This trip was a lot of fun last time and those who attended the first rally really enjoyed themselves despite being done on relatively short notice. Now we have a lot more "lead time" to organize the next one, so let's start planning a little.
Greg
Brandy
towards Ellenburg is ALWAYS sunny......Denny Creek campground (right off of I-90 but you can still hear some traffic.....Tinkham road Campground (love this one have yet to camp here becasue its secluded and I am waiting for a buddy to camp with me..this is a mile up into the woods off of 90 each site is quite "private....not sure about electricity? but the river runs behind half the campsites and it is very pretty up there.....Deception Pass......nice but must book in advance......Birch Bay...WAY up north but from what I gather it is beautiful...
Larry & Carrie
QUOTE (Brandy @ Nov 12 2008, 08:56 AM) *
towards Ellenburg is ALWAYS sunny......Denny Creek campground (right off of I-90 but you can still hear some traffic.....Tinkham road Campground (love this one have yet to camp here becasue its secluded and I am waiting for a buddy to camp with me..this is a mile up into the woods off of 90 each site is quite "private....not sure about electricity? but the river runs behind half the campsites and it is very pretty up there.....Deception Pass......nice but must book in advance......Birch Bay...WAY up north but from what I gather it is beatiful...

Second Brandy's choices of towards E'burg. Denny Creek, tho, will always be crowded as it is a destination for the Yuppie type hikers, will take some prompt planning. Does have full hookups. Tinkham is a USFS spot, will be sorta primitive (YAY!) no electricity, and prob vault toilets, should have water spigots. Going further East is Lake Kachess campground, another USFS camp, and one of our favorites Crystal Springs, primitive-vault toitoi's, water spigots every 100 feet or so, no electric. Larry
Bobbie Mayer
When: June through Mid-August would be nice for me. But I understand these times are busier and require more advance planning.

Bobbie
Brandy
Tinkham had water spigots....and I remember two shed looking things that resembled bathrooms but there didn't look like showers in that small of space...but come on were camping who needs to shower



QUOTE (Larry & Carrie @ Nov 12 2008, 10:05 AM) *
Second Brandy's choices of towards E'burg. Denny Creek, tho, will always be crowded as it is a destination for the Yuppie type hikers, will take some prompt planning. Does have full hookups. Tinkham is a USFS spot, will be sorta primitive (YAY!) no electricity, and prob vault toilets, should have water spigots. Going further East is Lake Kachess campground, another USFS camp, and one of our favorites Crystal Springs, primitive-vault toitoi's, water spigots every 100 feet or so, no electric. Larry
Laura & Rick
Off my head there's Lake Wenatchee and Deception Pass State Parks. What time frame are we looking at? Spring, Summer. Fall or????
Wayne D
One that comes to mind that we haven't been to in a number of years is Taidnapum Park. It's one of several campgrounds run by Tacoma Power. Here's a link http://www.ci.tacoma.wa.us/power/parksandp...dnapam_park.htm
Christi V.
Tiadnapam has a great group site too! its across the road from the main campground. heres a link to the campsite map.


http://www.camis.com/WA/camping/maps.asp?loc=232
Greg Finke
While I know that there are many "purists" out there who like boondocking and primitive site camping, I think we should perhaps consider that some, if not most, people that attend these group events would prefer going to a place with at least power, water, and facilities having bathrooms and showers (not stinky outhouses). I personally prefer full hook-up sites, but that's just me. I'm sure others here who may be considering attending would also appreciate these features as well though. Just my two cents worth.
Greg
Larry & Carrie
QUOTE (Greg Finke @ Nov 14 2008, 08:18 AM) *
While I know that there are many "purists" out there who like boondocking and primitive site camping, I think we should perhaps consider that some, if not most, people that attend these group events would prefer going to a place with at least power, water, and facilities having bathrooms and showers (not stinky outhouses). I personally prefer full hook-up sites, but that's just me. I'm sure others here who may be considering attending would also appreciate these features as well though. Just my two cents worth.
Greg

Greg-- dunno if purist is the right term, cheep might be better as the primitive site are more economical... But, you are right, participation will be better if full hook up is available. And, I will never turn down shower facilities. Larry
Wayne D
We do enjoy both boondocking and camping with hookups. I think for this type of gathering I would prefer to have utilities, couple less things to worry about when you'd rather be socializing. By the way, just had some friends return from a trip to Dosewalips State Park in the peninsula on the Hood Canal, looks to be a nice park with about 100 spacious grassy sites about have of which have utilities.
Brandy
Okay so ideas here.....we want our Canadian friends to come ...trust me they are fun.....and we still love our Oregon friends......so somewhere in the middle ..........and with hookups.....searching for ideas......
HeathGal
Hello Happy Crampers...

I love the enthusiasm of this group. Why, we haven't even endured Winter yet, and you're all thinking ahead to Spring! Thank you Greg Finke, my ol' CCHS pal, for driving the endeavor to gather at a 2nd Annual WA State GLASS EGG MEET. You may have created a monster.

So, OK... here's what I've been TRYING, unsuccessfully, to do this morning. First, FOR THE HECK OF IT, I selected a June date BEFORE school lets out - arbitrarily selecting June 12/13, 2009.

Then I went to WA State's crampgrounds web site for DECEPTION PASS (lovely place) http://www.parks.wa.gov/parkpage.asp?selec...eception%20Pass

FACILITIES: Check out their Forest Loop (1-78) - that's where most of the water/electric sites are, so Greg you could enjoy a sweet-smelling loo, while back at your crampsite your electric coffee pot perks.

CALENDAR: When you look at the overall calendar for Forest Loop for JUNE, it looks pretty good - lots of available "green" spaces.

RESTRICTIONS: There is a NINE-MONTH maximum for reserving sites ahead of time - 9 months from date reservation is made to actual cramping reservation date, if you know what I mean. So, seeing as we're ONLY SEVEN months out, we should be able to do this!!!

STICKY BIT: But, when I tried to make a reservation, I ended up with FAILURE messages.

WHAT THE...?

So, I'm not sure what to say. I was trying to snag a reservation, then come back on line here and tell you all about it, that there are plenty of available sites for mid-June at Deception Pass... but now I don't know. Maybe someone else wants to give it a try. I figured that if you all decided to go somewhere else, I could always cancel this and pick up another.

Anyway, visit the Deception Pass site and see what you think. It's a beautiful part of Puget Sound, but we'll go just about anywhere in WA state that you all want to go... just seems like we need to decide now, and start snagging those sites.

Ellensburg sounds good too - the old town part of E'burg is a sweet place to visit. And June would likely see sunshine in E'burg. Lake Wenachee is also appealing - we've been there - but their mosquitos are the size of VW crampers.

Cheers all,
Sharen
Bobbie Mayer
QUOTE (HeathGal @ Nov 14 2008, 12:38 PM) *
So, OK... here's what I've been TRYING, unsuccessfully, to do this morning. First, FOR THE HECK OF IT, I selected a June date BEFORE school lets out - arbitrarily selecting June 12/13, 2009.


Thanks for going to June, but you selected the exact weekend of our next Corgi Campout at Greyland Beach.

Ignore me, though, as I probably can't go any other weekend in June and July is likely to be too crowded for everyone.

Bobbie
HeathGal
P.S. I also looked at the Tacoma Mossy Park site - looks nice - and their availability for mid-June looks good too. Looks like 1/2 their loop sites accomodate hookups.

http://www.ci.tacoma.wa.us/power/parksandp...dnapam_park.htm

So, let's strive for consensus, or GReg, just pick a place and tell us to be there!
xo
Sharen

Anne H
A group site is kind of an appealing idea too - although I think the usual turn-out would probably exceed the capacity of most group sites.
Christi V.
Everyone has thier places that all look good,. I guess its gonna be drawing a straw to see where everyone would like to meet. ???
I would only be free May 25th-June 6th or somewhere inbetween....
Maybe more Washingtonians will chime in also....to suggest a place too
HeathGal
OK CRampers, been doing some research... any preferences??? All seem to have 9 month reservation restrictions, but that should work NOW. - Sharen

LAKE WENATCHEE, in the mountains near Leavenworth, the Oom pah pah village (super)
http://www.parks.wa.gov/parkpage.asp?selec...ake%20Wenatchee
North loop, 101-197, looks like hook-ups, electric + water
JUNE 4,5,6 (Thurs/Fri/Sat nights)
AVAILABILITY: EXCELLENT RIGHT NOW
NOTE: I can't seem to access sites for their pictures.

DECEPTION PASS, north end of Whidbey Island, northern part of WA state (wonderful)
http://www.parks.wa.gov/parkpage.asp?selec...eception%20Pass
Forest Loop, 1-78, most with hook-ups, electric & water
JUNE 4, 5, 6 (Thurs/Fri/Sat nights)
AVAILABILITY: looks good right now
NOTE: 9 month maximum reservation restriction - having trouble making a reservation right now

CAPE DISAPPOINTMENT (don't let the name fool ya), south-western WA shore (beautiful Lewis n Clarke site)
http://www.camis.com/WA/camping/maps.asp?loc=184
A-sites, 1-60 - all with hookups for power & water
JUNE 4, 5, 6 (Thurs/Fri/Sat nights)
AVAILABILITY: UNABLE TO ACCESS, WHA'???

SEAQUEST, EXIT 49 off the I-5, southerly (never been here)
http://www.parks.wa.gov/parkpage.asp?selectedpark=Seaquest
A-SITES, 1-54, most with hook-ups, power & water
JUNE 4, 5, 6 (Thurs/Fri/Sat nights)
AVAILABILITY: LOOKS EXCELLENT RIGHT NOW

Bobbie Mayer
My vote would be Deception Pass, especially since I'm likely to arrive on Whidbey around the weekend before, and can't imagine being able to go if it were a long way away. Deception Pass I could go for a single night if I wanted. I just tried the reservation system and it should open sites for that weekend.

Bobbie
Maureen M.
We had so much fun at the First Annual WA Get Together, and we're looking forward to seeing everybody again!

Our vote is for Cape Disappointment State Park. Not only is it a beautiful place with beaches to explore, the Lewis and Clark Interpretive Center is a great museum and the lighthouse is cool. Tax-free shopping is a short drive across the Astoria Bridge.

How about June 5-7? We just checked the reservations at Cape Disappointment and there's good availability if we make a decision right away. From what we see all the state parks are pretty much completely booked starting the week after that when school gets out. So we need to go for that first week in June (or sooner), or wait until September. June is better for us, because we'd like to go to the Fort Langley meet in September and the NOG in October.

Everyone has made great suggestions, but here are some of our thoughts. Hood Canal Bridge is going to be closed for at least six weeks starting in May, so anything up an that direction would probably be better timing next year. We go to Whidbey Island so often that Deception Pass just isn't our first pick anyway. We echo the comment about the mosquitoes on Lake Wenatchee, but aside from the bugs that would be a fun choice. Also, the Ellensburg area is windy all year long. It's just whether it is hot wind or cold wind. In early June, it'll probably be cold wind. But that's just our two cents worth, and we still want to go regardless! Just let us know where and when.

Chris & Maureen
Brandy
I second the motion for this one.....its kind of in the middle for our canadian friends and our oregon friends...plus it said a fishing bridge so that automatically caught my attention...........


QUOTE (Wayne D @ Nov 12 2008, 11:02 PM) *
One that comes to mind that we haven't been to in a number of years is Taidnapum Park. It's one of several campgrounds run by Tacoma Power. Here's a link http://www.ci.tacoma.wa.us/power/parksandp...dnapam_park.htm
Larry & Carrie
QUOTE (Brandy @ Nov 15 2008, 08:15 AM) *
I second the motion for this one.....its kind of in the middle for our canadian friends and our oregon friends...plus it said a fishing bridge so that automatically caught my attention...........

AND we also like this area........ 55.gif L & C
Christi V.
The group site at Taidnapum park is sites 53-74... all full hookups except no sewer hookups for 71-74

If this place is considered I can drive there in an hr and try to get the group site reserved for a certain date... as I said before I will only be availble for spring meet the last week of May to first week in June....
Other wise there is the main park..... They are adding on 100 more hookup sites but thats not available right now....

I third vote Taidnapum..... smil.gif
Greg Finke
Hi all,
While they all sound ok to me...hell, why wouldn't they, I'm retired! The scheduling snafu more so affects Brenda's schedule since she's a school district employee and as such, doesn't finish until around the end of June. But, she has given me "permission" to go by myself if she can't make it. It's just more fun with my sweetie, but I have "flown solo" before too.
Never been to Taidnapum, but did find it on the map. Sounds interesting, but so does Cape D on the coast. I could go either way, or anywhere else for that matter. For what its worth.
Greg
Christi V.
I say if we choose to go to Taidnapum what weekend is good?
May 29th to may 31
June 5th 7th.


I would proably come a day early or stay a day later anyways.... or could anyone else for that fact.
its right before school is out and sometimes the weather really isnt that bad...

Do we want the group site? i am not sure how to reserve for that but I can either drive out there to find out... Maybe a minium of 10 has to reserve or do we just reserve ourselves for those dates??
Bobbie Mayer
Well, I'm probably out for either of those weekends if it isn't close as I know I won't want to drive from California to Whidbey and turn around and take a long drive the next weekend (or so) and then again on the following weekend (which is already committed.)



HeathGal
First, DATES:
Memorial Day weekend is a hellish weekend to travel, so I'm NOT looking at that. My 2009 calendar shows Memorial Day weekend as May 23/24/24, so that's OUT.

MAY 29/30/31 FRI/SAT/SUN is a pissobolity, as is...

JUNE 5/6/7 FRI/SAT/SUN an appealing weekend, so for the purposes of coming to some definitive conclusion on this endeavor, I'm going for that one: JUNE 5/6/7, and naturally some folk come early whatever dates we pick.

OK, that settled (?), now about PLACE:

Taidnapam Park - There seems to be a push to this park, owned by Tacoma Power.
http://www.ci.tacoma.wa.us/power/parksandp...dnapam_park.htm

The only trouble is, when I go to their web site, it says
"The new campsites at Taidnapam Park are still under construction and won't be available this summer. Although they're not ready for camping yet, you'll see a new map on the reservation web site."

Now, did that mean LAST SUMMER, or does it mean THIS SUMMER. If it's this coming summer, then talking about Taidnapam Park is a moot point, isn't it?

Can someone tell us if it's available for the summer of 2009?
Thanks,
Sharen

Christi V.
I doubt if the construction will be complete until 2009 or later. I am not sure where they are at in getting it done but I would be glad to find out.... As I said its just over an hrs drive away from me and i can go find out from someone and let ya know or call parks and rec..
If its nice tomarrow I might take a drive that way.....

Did you check out the 'group site'? put your curser on the lower middle that is across the street from the main camp loop....

http://www.camis.com/WA/camping/maps.asp?loc=232

5th 6th and 7th sound good also...
Greg Finke
Christy,
I clicked on your link to check it out and all the sites in the "group site area" when clicked on, say that they are not reservable. Am I correct in assuming that some special arrangements must be made with the Park's "powers-that-be" in order to book sites in that area, and if so, what are we supposed to do or who are we supposed to call to get that area?
Greg
Christi V.
Greg.. i am working on that.... i think you do have to reserve it as a group.. i will find out sometime tomarrow hopefully and let you guys know...... I would be glad to call.... or like i said i will drive out there too

In my brochure its states that information and reservations is available in a separate Taidnapam park group camp information sheet and group camp reservation application. A minimum of 10 sties is required to reserve in the group camp....

If this is where we want to go. i will be more than glad to try to get that application for submission for June 5-6-7th...

I am just trying to see what people want... no way am i insisting on these dates or places. I realize that not all dates and times would be available to everyone....

If others have better ideas thats ok too.... ......
Brandy
June 5,6 7 work for me.......
Larry & Carrie
QUOTE (Brandy @ Nov 16 2008, 08:34 AM) *
June 5,6 7 work for me.......


To the best of my Knowledge, that weekend is open for us also. L & C
Greg Finke
Well, if it's "doable", whatever dates are available will work. The proposed June dates sound fine if its open to being reserved. Build it and they will come...
Greg
HeathGal
Hello Christi,
Since you're near the area of the Tacoma Power crampgrounds, let's take you up on your offer to TELEPHONE them early this week and get back to us. I wouldn't drive out there when a phone call would do. Based on their Web site, it looks like a nice area, with a lake (we likes lakes!) and trees.

A GROUP SITE could be fun, as long as it has power and water hookups, so I hope you will ask about that. And if not the group site, do they have up to 20 or so regular power/water hook-up sites that are in a single loop or near one another. If they aren't booked yet, we'd be in good shape. (Last fall we had about 12 sites, didn't we Greg F?)

I'm with others who like the June 5/6/7 weekend, and we'll go just about anywhere in WA state. Our state is staggeringly beautiful wherever we go, but towing a rig, it's nice to be somewhere that's reasonably central for all.

And Greg, I'm with you... "build it," er no, "book it" and they will come, especially if YOU'RE hosting the potluck! I'll bring the Ralph Lauren sheets... for tablecloths, naturally!!!

Christi, we look forward to news from you this week. And THANKS!

Cheers all,
Sharen

Wayne D
I took a look at a couple of the pics of the group site, and while it would be cool, it doesn't offer much in the way of atmosphere. It seems to be a large gravel parking lot. I think I would prefer a traditional site. It looks as though most of the sites are available for June 5,6,7 with the exception of the ones that include a sewer hookup. Those are all in a row along the lake side of the loop.
Christi V.
Oh dear.. i just got home from there... ohmy.gif
Wayne.. were you out there today???

I didnt think the group site was all that bad.. nice restrooms and kitchen area... but
i guess thats out right??? thought it would be nice to be in a group and be able to
meet under cover in that nice kitchen if it was raining? Oh well..


Click to view attachment


Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
Donna D.
QUOTE (Christi V. @ Nov 16 2008, 03:11 PM) *
I didnt think the group site was all that bad.. nice restrooms and kitchen area...

Pictures can be deceiving Christi. I agree group campouts, even in gravel parking lots, can be fun... they're so totally different than camping by oneself. Maybe after this initial gathering, folks would be willing to make the next gathering in the group area shg.gif I know everyone appreciate the effort you took to check it out 53.gif

Check out the Valentines at DeRose group campout. It's not only in a gravel parking lot, there are no hookups at all. But those that attend have an absolutely great time.

Here's some pics from the archive, and further discussion: Valentine's at DeRose Winery, February 11-12, 2006
Looks like they had plenty of fun in a gravel parking lot to me!
Brandy
Thanks for driving out there!!!!!

QUOTE (Christi V. @ Nov 16 2008, 03:11 PM) *
Oh dear.. i just got home from there... ohmy.gif
Wayne.. were you out there today???
Wayne D
QUOTE (Christi V. @ Nov 16 2008, 03:11 PM) *
Oh dear.. i just got home from there... ohmy.gif
Wayne.. were you out there today???

I didnt think the group site was all that bad.. nice restrooms and kitchen area... but
i guess thats out right??? thought it would be nice to be in a group and be able to
meet under cover in that nice kitchen if it was raining? Oh well..


Click to view attachment


Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment


I'm sorry Christi, I didn't mean to swoop in and steal your thunder. I wasn't out there, I was looking at the group camp pics that the reservation site has.
Maureen M.
Here is the list of campers so far...

Sharen & Simon #21
Paul & Norma #24
Donna #19
Brandy #22
Wayne & Mailie #13
Chris, Maureen & Megan #25
Greg #35
Peter (?) & Lynne #30

Here is the map with only our sites colored in red.
Click to view attachment
Brandy
Okay I might add my husband has said he wants to go and I am bringing an 8 yo early waking, one volume child so just an FYI for those who like a quite-er neighbor...
Christi V.
I booked site 16 June 4-7th...
Maureen M.
Here is the list of campers so far...

Sharen & Simon #21
Paul & Norma #24
Donna #19
Brandy, Hubby & 8 yo #22
Wayne & Mailie #13
Chris, Maureen & Megan #25
Greg #35
Peter (?) & Lynne #30
Steve & Terri #4
Christi #16

(Sorry Brandy and others if I get names listed wrong sad.gif )

~ Chris

Here is the map with only our sites colored in red.
Click to view attachment
HeathGal
Oh man Maureen & Chris, that HURTS!!!! LOLOLOLOL
You are going to PAY for that lil remark!!! Hahahaha roflol.gif roflol.gif roflol.gif

QUOTE (Maureen M. @ Nov 16 2008, 09:38 PM) *
Sharen, are there any good places nearby for chowder? l31.gif


As to the discussion about group vs individual crampsites... Let me say what happened to me. I took a look at the images with all the gravel and the squeezed in shoulder-to-shoulder sites, and it turned me off. That said, after reading Donna's encouraging remarks and looking more closely at the group pavilion, I'd be willing to give it a try sometime. Surely the covered pavilion would be nice in bad weather.

Still, one of the most compelling reasons that Simon and I go camping is to enjoy beautiful natural settings, and these individual crampsites look very appealing.

I think it's good that we will all be able to take a walk over to the group site and if the group feels compelled to camp that way sometime, surely we can plan on that.

Cheers all,
Sharen
HeathGal
QUOTE (Maureen M. @ Nov 18 2008, 07:08 AM) *
Here is the list of campers so far...

Sharen & Simon #21
Paul & Norma #24
Donna #19
Brandy, Hubby & 8 yo #22
Wayne & Mailie #13
Chris, Maureen & Megan #25
Greg #35
Peter (?) & Lynne #30
Steve & Terri #4
Christi #16

(Sorry Brandy and others if I get names listed wrong sad.gif )

~ Chris
Here is the map with only our sites colored in red.
Click to view attachment



WONDERFUL TO HAVE A TECHIE AMONG US.
WAY TO GO CHRIS! 31.gif


Brandy
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!! howdy neighbor 59.gif 40.gif cheers.gif



QUOTE (Larry & Carrie @ Nov 18 2008, 07:56 PM) *
Just booked #23------ ohmy.gif I guess the wench 48.gif and I will have to put up w/noisy nieghbors...... Should be a hoot. Besides we want to meet Brandy's poor downtrodden spouse. Larry
Brandy
Heeeeeyyyyyyy wait a second.....downtrodden spouse............*flips thru dictionary*........oh come on now..........he's like a scared squirrell when it comes to these outtings....not his thing...whats an adventurous gal supose to do........thank goodness my kid loves to camp anytime anywhere..........



QUOTE (Larry & Carrie @ Nov 18 2008, 07:56 PM) *
Just booked #23------ ohmy.gif I guess the wench 48.gif and I will have to put up w/noisy nieghbors...... Should be a hoot. Besides we want to meet Brandy's poor downtrodden spouse. Larry
Greg Finke
Sounds like things are shaping up pretty good for our 2nd Annual event.

Thank you Donna, for putting a link to this thread on the other (Casita) forum for me.
I should have done that when I posted it. OH.gif


At least I have someone looking out for me! biggrin.gif

Greg
Maureen M.
This is great! We have 16 groups so far and it's not even Thanksgiving.

Here is the list so far. Please send me any corrections. Thanks.
~ Chris

Name Site (Trailer) Location
Sharen & Simon # 21 (Casita Freedom 16') Langley, WA
Paul & Norma # 24 (1995 Scamp 16') Marysville, WA
Donna # 19 (1988 Scamp Deluxe 16') Portland, OR
Brandy, Hubby & 8 yo # 22 (1977 Scamp) Seattle, WA
Wayne & Mailie # 13 (2000 Northern Lite) Spanaway, WA
Chris, Maureen & Megan # 25 (1987 Bigfoot 5th Wheel F20) University Place, WA
Greg # 35 (2008 Casita 17') Bremerton, WA
Peter (?) & Lynne # 30 (2005 Scamp 5th Wheel) Portland, OR
Steve & Terri # 4 (Scamp 5th Wheel) Grass Valley, CA
Christi # 16 (Scamp 5th Wheel Deluxe) WA
Charlene # 10 (2008 Bigfoot 21') Eugene, OR
Pamela # 12 (1982 Burro) WY
Larry & Carrie # 23 (1983 Scamp 13') Ephrata, WA
Chuck & Deb # 17 (1988 Bigfoot 5th Wheel TF20) Battleground, WA
Cory Hilby (Joey the dog) # 26 (1972 Compact Jr.) Olympia, WA
Karen Langlois (with Chase) # 27

Click to view attachment
Roger C H
I was ready to sign up but my spouse, who is a good control for my enthusiasm, pointed out:

1. We don't even have a trailer yet. huh.gif

2. We are supposed to get some out of country guests next year and have no idea when they are coming. sad.gif

3. We are already signed up for the Oregon April thing. (I slipped that one through) 77.gif

4. We are going to visit our son in Hawaii. biggrin.gif

So we have to see. Will contact our Argentinian friends to see if and when they are coming.

Roger

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