I've scanned about every topic on this forum and I fear long-term members here are gonna go...oh no not another one. But please bear with me on this. No one has to be informed that we're in a bad "economy" and trying to save is not an "option" right now.

BUT- "The eyes of man are never satisfied" and the wife and I want a camper! We married off our last one in Feb so it's time.

I have a '99 Nissan Frontier King Cab PU with a 4cyl. I've narrowed the options down to the lighter weight Casitas, Tadas, etc. But I'm REALLY concerned and wonder if ANYONE has pulled a Casita 16' (or equal camper) with a 4cy Frontier. It IS a "manual" transmission and rated at 3500lbs. A nice guy at a camper place let me pull a 3000 lb camper. NO GO!! Listen, on a small grade, I could not get over 50mph in 4th gear. On a hill, I did good to hold 40 in 3rd. But this was a larger dual axle camper and NOT an "egg" style.

Again, has ANYONE here pulled a 16' Casita or equal with a 4cyl Frontier. I know without a doubt that I believe it would pull a 13'. But they (Casita) tell me it's only about 300 lbs different than the 16'.

Please accept my apologies early on for such a "redundant" post. But honestly, IF a Casita 16' or so is out of the question, my dream of a "camper" will be put on hold. I just dont want to invest $40K + for an entirely new rig right now.

Thanks in advance....

Darral T. from Tennessee!

THis does not really compare to a 16 foot scamp... but I pulled a 14 foot stick built with that same 4cyl truck in a manual tranny. My wife and i went all over the place and neighboring states. We packed light, traveled with no water and only one propane tank. It had no shower. IT was an old 70's model with no trailer brakes. That would be my advice to you, be sure and get trailer brakes if you buy new. That 3500 rating seems common (not v6 optimal) but common from all of my reading on this and other forums. Even though i was within my tow rating, My truck was a Dog too like you describe on the road. But that's all we could afford at the time.

PS> I also used inexpensive air shocks from pep boys on the rear for sag and they worked out great for my particular setup.

Twould be interesting to know how much yer "stick" weighed.

I guess the bottom line is, I'm looking at the Casita, Tada, and the newer Forrest River's (havent heard good things from that line) new "R-Pod". Except for the Casita, I've had two dealers that have told me to come by and "pull" one. There's a dealer in Manchester, Tn that carries the Hi-Lo, Tada, MoJo and others. Unfortunately, I was heading to Manchester this weekend but BONNAROO...so no-go. Hopefully, next week.

I just fear the lil 4-cyl is going to remain somewhat of a "dog" regardless.

Thanks so much for the reply!
Darral from TN.

We got by for a year or two, but yes it was very slow (dog is the best description). Getting on on ramps you have to have the pedal floored to accelerate. Passing was difficult, you had to down shift and have the pedal floored. That's what you will have to put up with. Going 55 down the flat highway it was fine. Don't tow in fifth gear either, it will slowly destroy that gear. I'm sure you know all this anyway. But I can add that we later upgraded to a chevy s10 v6 and that v6 was like a whole new world opened up. I was relaxed driving, could pass others with ease. Hit the mountains no problem. Anyway that's what we did. Got by until we saved enough to upgrade the truck, a used truck I should say.

I was idly searching for 6-cylinder cars to tow with (my 4-cylinder Camry is just barely adequate on the flats, and at sea level at that) and thought the used CRVs and Escapes and etc. were too rich for my blood.

What popped up was a 1998 Dodge Ram 2500 with a Cummins inline 6-cyl turbo diesel with less than 100k miles and for less than $7k! Lessee, with over 400 ft-lb torque that puppy should pull my little Compact Jr pretty well. Oh yeah, it's rated towing capacity is over 14,000 lbs!

I looked around a bit and found more that were newer and more expensive, but still well under $10k. Maybe not as pretty as a Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, or whatever, but much cheaper and they definitely the guts to go!

Sure, the others get better gas milage, but I drive only 4,000 miles/year. Even if diesel costs $5/gallon and the others didn't use any fuel at all, it would take me nearly a decade for the fuel cost to eat up the difference in purchase price.

Damn, I really didn't want a big truck but the economics is rather compelling...

Darral,

Your Nissan can tow a 16ft Scamp. I know other members here towing 19ft Scamp fifth wheels with four bangers. You mention many other brands- mostly traditional framed trailers- probably because the fiberglass brands don't get much publicity. You've come across the best trailers there are (speaking of all molded fiberglass trailers here, people). If you're looking for new, check out (in no particular order, showing no favoritism): Escape, Scamp, Trillium, Casita. Somewhere on here is a link to the list of manufacturers still in business. Also, keep an eye out in your local papers, online classifieds, and our own classified section for used options. Hope I'm not forgetting something. Others will chime in, I'm sure.

Don't give up!
Eric B.

Here's the list Eric mentioned:
All Current Trailer Brands

Ignore the top one, Bigfoot is out of business

yes dont let me discourage you either. My setup does not really compare to a 16 foot scamp. I had a large frontal area for wind. Maybe the slick scamp body would have better wind resistance. Don't be shy to ask all the questions you want here either. this is a great forum.

I had my camp bud had a heart attack at 9000 feet last year, I towed the 16 foot scamp back to home for him, my 95 Nissan 2.4L has a Lux Pro Gold clutch and the rear suspension has Roadking springs that kick in when needed, I would dispense with any idea of pep from a four banger unless its diesel, I love my Astro trailer but I do not zoom up the hills and third is where it likes it even with the smaller one. I trade allot of pep for 27 mpg.

We go slower and see more.

Granted there are times I would like to zip but that is not an option with a 4 cylinder.

I did 1000 miles last summer and averaged 23 mpg, I was doing about 300 miles a day goofing off. Going up hill I saw all sorts of wildlife I would have missed zooming at 65 mph...Including several bus motor homes who flipped me off going up hill.

One blew a gasket on Az 260 ahead of me when he passed me, miles later he did not look too happy...at 100 plus degrees the A/C is more important and getting to the cool pines the goal...We got both...he didn't.

Happy Camping, Safe Trails.

Harry

I REALLY appreciate ALL of the posts concerning my "4 banger" (never heard that one).

Alot of water has gone under the bridge since my last post. Wife and I headed to Lebanon Tn. this past weekend. At Family Campers, I pulled one of the new "R-Pods" by Forest River (havent heard good things about this brand). Going up a mild grade, I could go to 55-60 in 3rd, when I went to 4th, it would start dropping back. No-go. It weighed right at 2400lbs.

We then went over to Scenic Roads RV www.scenicroadsrv.com to look at the Tadas. I looked inside of THREE of them and the bathroom wallboard was bucking badly! The quality just wasnt there. There are other brands they carry as well in the "Microlites".

But, they carry the "Hi-Lo" . I pulled the 15'er (15T weight of 2200lbs) and took it to the foot of Monteagle Mt. on the North/West side. This would be down I24 E from Manchester, TN. I could hold 60mph on most grades even in 4th. I drove 5th gear on the flats and could hold 70. I also used the A/C. But I always bump off the A/C climbing hills. That's just me.

I would HAVE to pull a 16'/17' Casita to believe I could come close that experience with the Hi-Lo. Personally, I just wouldnt be comfortable pulling in 3rd gear "regularly". I'm thinking that it might pull the 13'er FG Camper- but can find NO ONE in my area (Columbia, TN) that has one. Do you guys believe that having to pull in 4th would hurt the truck??? I know the Toyota/Nissan motors are pretty tough. I ALSO know you do NOT "lug" those motors or as we saw on one other post here, you WILL be replacing head gaskets. I experienced this with an 85' Nissan 4cy PU when I lugged it with a load of tables.

Thanks again guys and I"m OPEN for any/all ideas/opionions as I have several myself. Since experiencing pulling some trailers now, I know what I DONT want and that is to abuse my truck. As of right now, (until I could try a Casita or equal), I wouldnt be comfy with anything but the Hi-Lo 15. Sorry, I realize I'm on a "Fiberglass forum".

What do yall think? I'll suck up any opinions for/against the Hi-Lo's as well. The first negative, they're EXPENSIVE.

Sincerely,
Darral Teeples

I would like to see that hi-lo in person. They look neat. Others can chime in here too. My experience towing in fourth was fine. But I did damage my fifth gear towing in fifth. It still works... but is now worn and hum's and the syncro wants to pop out more easily. I didn't know much about mechanics at the time but have learned a lot since.

Darral,

Have you determined that you really need something larger than a 13' Scamp or similar? You get a lot of fun for the buck, they're easy to work on, store, tow, sell, etc. Depreciation on a used one will be very little, so you can move up someday when you're ready for a larger TV. You do have to be friends to share the small bed and in most cases give up things like inside flush toilets and showers, but it's really a pretty good trade for all the fun you can have with a small egg. If you've pulled the Hi-Lo okay, I can't believe you would have any trouble at all with a 13' Scamp. The first time we pulled one was when we drove from mid-Ohio to upper Wisconsin to pick up ours, and towed it home with a Volvo convertible. We've since replaced the Volvo with a Subaru, which pulls it easily.

Good luck in your search.
Parker

Have you called Casita and talked to a salesperson?

They have a list of owners and can put you in touch with some of the ones nearest to you.

worth a shot, I would think!

Gene,

I have called Casita and received lotsa information. Got to view a 17' when we were in the Great Smokey's back in April. But they were pulling with a Tacoma v6. Unfortunately, she (Jean I believe) from Casita was going to look for someone pulling a Cas. with a 4cyl or look for a 13' in our area (Nashville, TN). That's been probably 4-6 weeks ago and I havent heard from them since . Kinda discouraging there.

Tonight, I've been viewing the "Scamps" online. I'm beginning to think like Parker. I would LOVE the 13' as I dont like "overgrown apes" in my life. I'm a 5'6" guy drive a small truck, car (Corolla), but my dear wife of 30 yrs thinks she will be claustrophobic in the 13'ers. Sighhhhh..... But I look at the price/weight....VERY doable and I personally feel, an EXCELLENT "starter" camper. Hey....what if we decide we dont LIKE camping and it's not for us?? I"d rather have $12K invested instead of $30-40K! We have some friends wanting us to hurry it up so we can camp with them. They started out with a "pop-up" to which I TOTALLY refuse to yield to and will lose the camper fever before I succomb to one.

I also keep reading about Ken's problem in 5th. I realize that I dont believe 4th would be a problem. If the Scamp 13' is as light as it proclaims, I think it would be fine. Now the decision would be between the Scamp or Casita. Any opinions on that? Of course, the #1 decisive factor will be the weight, #2 is price. Ken...you havent been discouraging at all pal...just honest. I like the Hi-Lo, but it's going to run apx $3-$4000 more than the "Eggs"!! not sure it's worth it.

As I tell many of my long-time friends that call me "Tight", I tell them, "I'm not tight, just efficient."

Thanks again guys. I feel like I'm making friends through my ignorance. But honestly, sounds like alot of you guys have been right here in my seat!!

Darral

I can understand your wife's concern. Just remind her, these small trailers are fully functional for specific tasks like ... to sleep, change clothing and maybe cook and eat. The rest of the time (weather and bugs permitting) you're outside... the entire outdoors is your living room!

13 footers aren't for everyone, but then again neither are monster-sized RVs.

Scamp or Casita? I don't think you'd go wrong with either one. They are more alike than different.

Darryl,

My husband and I travel on long trips with our 13 Scamp. We do not have the bathroom as we much prefer having two beds. We took the back off the front bunk and it makes a slightly wider bed. Does Casita even make the 13 without the bath? It is fair to say we would get claustrophobic in a 13 with a front bath. Others do well with that unit.

To keep our unit light we do not carry water, so did not get the water tank. We do not have the refrigerator, have a cooler in the car. We only camp when the weather is not hot so have no air conditioner. We don't have the furnace either. We do have optional front and rear overhead cabinets (would not want to do without those). Thus configured our Scamp weighs in at about 1450 to 1500 lbs. The new Scamp is taller now so the weight would be a bit more. Joy's Scamp 13 loaded with all the goodies weighs around 2,000 lbs.

Just last week we went down to the Scamp factory to look at 16s. They seemed huge to us and we were really happy that we have the 13. I no longer lwant to have more. Glad we got our 13 that fits short people before they increased the headroom.

Before buying the Scamp I wanted the T[at]B. We parked side by side with friends who have the T[at]B and they had much more frontal area for wind to catch. And when they got in our little 13 they thought it was large. Really, really glad we went with Scamp.

Good luck finding what you want. By the way the 13 on the lot at Backus was with the front bath. I think that is what people are going for these days. It was also the wood interior, a bit more weight. I'll take my lighter weight elbow room any day.

Nancy

Nancy, Donna,

Thanks for the input. Nancy, yours was very detailed. I like that! You said some very good things but DO differ quite a bit on what you (yall) prefer. #1, it MUST have a bathroom. I was raised in a homebuilt motor home with 3 of us siblings without it. Trecking off to the campground "bunkhouse" at 3 in the morning or using a "porti-potty" in a small camper just wouldnt be pleasing to me. SO, I'll have to sacrifice some weight there. The wood? Nahhh...keep 'fancy' at home. Keep lite on the road. Oh and A/C. An absolute MUST!

Plus in the Scamp/Casitas, there's a wardrobe closet I KNOW the wife would enjoy that actually MANY of the smaller campers doesnt even have! You mention "Joy's Scamp". I plead ignorance here.....is this someone we could contact? I'm glad you listed the weights. That helps alot. I just wish I knew EXACTLY what the HiLo weighed Saturday.

I have another "idea". I know where's theres an OLD '85 FG 13' setting right off of the Natchez Trace near me. I'm going to try and find out who it belongs to. I wouldnt want it because it has the couch and not a bath . Not really for sure if it's even road-worthy. I'd give you the name, but honestly couldnt find one! BUT, if they would ONLY let me test-pull with some weight added, then I could possibly get a better idea...dunno...just another avenue to think about since I have NO idea if there's any 13's within a 1000 miles of me! (I plan a call to Casita again soon).

I cant believe the excellent responses on this forum so far! I can tell in a short time that this is a great group of people. I feel like we're on the "outside looking in" right now. But I just want to be sure. This is a considerable investment. Especially nowadays.

I want my wife to read the past few posts from people that "own" one of these because of all the opinions and actual experience. Who knows....

Darral from Tennessee

We always have had a 6 cylinder tow vehicle. The new one is much more powerful than our old 99 Frontier. I've met some people in campgrounds who claim they have no problem pulling their 17' Casita with a 4 cylinder, but I can tell you from my experience with our old truck that I would not want to be on a steep mountain road pulling the larger Casita models with a 4 cylinder engine.

Darral,

Joy A has the same rig we do but she has everything. Her most recent mod was a generator on the front. She lives in her rig, we just sleep in ours.

If you find an older Scamp the weight will be less than the new ones and less than ours. They put on a heavier axle before we bought ours and now they added height.

Has anyone mentioned that you call Scamp and Casita to find an owner near you?

Yeah, I really wanted a privacy room for the porta potty. I got over it and prefer my own bed and elbow room. I made a curtain for when I want privacy. It turns our Scamp into two rooms;)

I have to add that the window over the stove and the fantastic fan as near the bunk as possible is a must for us. On a recent visit to the Scamp factory I noticed that they generally put the fantastic fan over the rear dinette. That area has windows. The front bunk you don't want gets no ventilation. The air conditioning you need probably will solve that problem.

You really should go to a fiberglass gathering to see what different rigs look like. That was what we did before deciding. We were lucky to hit a T[at]B rally and then a fiberglass gathering the next week.

Nancy

Forgot to mention, Joy tows with a Jeep and we tow with a Honda Odyssey. We are rated to pull 3,500 pounds. Joy's Jeep rates higher I think. We are both very happy to have vehicles with more than recommended.

Nancy

Darral,

Have you noticed this thread?

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/index.php?showforum=81

Nancy

I understand. The low profile of the Hi-Lo in the towing mode makes a lot of sense. With a marginally powered tow, you need to play the physics of the situation for all you can get. There's more to this equation than just weight; shape is a significant factor.

Do you have a "shell" or "cap" or something on the bed of your pick-up? They make some really nice fiberglass ones that are taller at the tailgate than at the cab. This will help direct airflow over the trailer somewhat to help reduce drag.

Thanks Fred. I havent thought about one of the FG toppers. Would be a nice addition (storage) and I could WELL see where it would direct the air over the camper.

Nancy, I've looked at the links. I KNOW I saw a "Desoto Ala." meet somewhere. Now I cant find it for the life of me! Seems a "meet" or "rally" would be a GOOD place to come and check out several sizes/models/brands.

Thanks again,
Darral

I'm towing with a 2001, Nissan Frontier, 4 banger, automatic.
Ive added a transmission cooler and a weight distribution hitch.
I have a 2006, 17' casita delux, with bathroom etc.
When towing it weighs 3,500 pounds per truck scales. (cat).
Have towed about 10,000 miles so far, no problems.
I have been living in my Casita full time for 2 years and
loving it.
Passing? don't think so I'm retired!
I often pull over for important stuff, like to photograph a
butterfly or a wildflower.
A little slow at times, like going up the smokie mountains with
the 15 mph switch back curves.
Get about 17 mph towing. A 6 cyclinder would probably do
as good or better, maybe 18 mph.

Dan

Hey Dan,

Just checked back into the forum and see where you posted. Thanks for that post. You dont get much encouragement from 4 cyls. But, regardless, they're tough workhorses for their size- much like Tennessee miniature mules.

I've about decided on the 15' HILO (mentioned in an earlier post). I liked the 13' Scamp but wife wants no part of it. I probably could pull a 16'er ok....but I've decided I dont like the Casita 13 or 16's after I viewed a 16 last week. They dont have a top-mount A/C (too short inside) and where they're mounting them is in a "hole". (PLEASE- no offense to anyone...just my opinion).

Thanks again for the "experience". Your truck is only 2 yrs newer so probably has the same engine...or pretty close.

Darral

slightly comparable, i used a 91 nissan x-cab p/u with a 4cyl 5spd to tow my 13ft trillium. bed of truck full, all camping gear, heavy canopy, 2 adults and a dog. it towed rather nicely. lots of pep and good stopping power.

Thanks Michael. I wish I knew how much your total rig weighed. I still havent made a permanent decision. Working on the house and thinking about camping. Not a good combo. It makes it alot harder to work on the house!

Wife and I was just talking that we believe my '99 Front. will pull the HILO 15 fine. Maybe not "peppy" over the mts. But I plan on taking it VERY little over any mt.

Darral

you mentioned an 80's model Casita in your area - I own one and want to tell you there are many changes to the newer models. For about 10 years now, the top mount AC is the norm - and they are taller on the inside. My '85 16 foot is 5'10" inside (or shorter) & the newer ones are something like 6'3" - a huge difference when you walk in one.

Try the casita club or casita forum - I know there are people in Tennessee with Casitas, I see them in the forums on these two sites.

There is lots of discussion of different tow vehicles - much like on this site, also.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth here too, of a "comparable" towing situation.
I used to tow my 14' TripleE (similar to Trillium) - approx 1500 lbs, with a 4 cyl. Chev. Tracker, and 5 speed manual transmission. It definitely was at the outer limits of the vehicle's ability. OK to drive at 100km/hr, but more comfortable at 90Km/hr. Always in 4th gear (avoided the over drive as per instruction manual). On big hills would drop to 80km/hr and maybe 3rd gear.
It was definitely a more tedious way to drive, but was tolerable.

Now I tow the same trailer with a Jeep Patriot, which is rated at 2000lbs. It's very comfortable at 100km/hr in all situations.
Best regards

I'm back after some hiatus. We didnt and I certainly dont plan on getting the HILO 15T. Too much for a camper that heavy and I was overly concerned about my truck. So that is out unless I'm shot an outrageously lower price (more $ for maint. on my truck ).

So, I'm back to the Scamp/Casita decision fiasco. The problem? Wife . (I have to be careful as I know she will come along and read this.) BUT, I cant be comfy pulling an over-sized rig for my "4-banger" and she has to be comfortable with the 13-16'ers. She also doesnt like "carpet on the walls". What do yall say about that? Is it a problem in the long run- glue showing through, getting dirty, turning loose?

Well I ran some conversions on Ron's figures. 100km = 62mph 90km = 56mph 80km = 50mph (Win 7 has this conversion in their "calculator"...very nice!)

I'm going to look at a used 16' Scamp with no A/C. 2004 model. It's layout #6 (Dinette). Do yall have any idea as to what it would be worth? I'm hoping to get to test pull it....FINALLY!! Test-pulling an "egg"!!

I'll stop here for now. I love the super posts on this forum.

Darral from Tennessee still driving the Nissan 4 banger!

I'll answer the rat fur question. It doesn't get any dirtier than drapery in your home. An occasional light vacuum job and you're done (I vacuum mine once a year... at the beginning of camping season). If you have a cat or dog, it may catch flying fur... just like drapery does. Scamp uses a Marine grade covering... it's not carpet, more like a heavy headliner material. It doesn't stain easily, hold odors or get moldy. If it gets moldy you've got a major problem going on in the wood floor and cushions. My 1988 Scamp doesn't have any problem with falling rat fur and the glue has never shown through.

I think the rat fur gives the trailer a homey feel.

YMMV