I have a long history of lighting my rigs via LED and cold cathodes. The FAA often comes to my campsite to investigate the landing lights confusing commercial airline pilots, only to find a couple Beagles and several empty Dr Pepper cans ... and little old me.

I have several 24 LED dome type fixtures that I have been happy with, and are insignificant to my battery. When I sold my 13 foot Burro, I didn't even remove them, they cost so little (10 bones each) I just ordered more and redid the 17 footer. I even have a couple extra ones as I ordered more than I actually needed. I figured "Bigger trailer, more lights needed". The only issue I have with them is not a big deal.. they are old school and the white hue is actually blue, as old leds do.

In a fit of boredom, I snooped around autoluminations website to see if:

1. It has gotten any better (Slightly, it's still hard to navigate tho)
2. If they had anything new to offer.

I ran across these 24 LED Jumbo fixtures, warm white and went "For 15 bones, it'll be interesting to see". They are the first listing on the page.

I got them the other day, and I did a quick mock up to see how they were. Wow. I am impressed. I don't have a lumens meter, so I can only give a subjective opinion that they are about twice as bright as the smaller domes I have been using for, literally, years, and "warm" is a great description. They are much more pleasing than my incandescents. I ordered two more for the front of the coach as soon as I saw how they performed. The two I got already will replace the two in the rear for now, and the two new ones will replace the ones over my gaucho.

I will get pics when the install is done, but I thought I would post them here first. I have seen many references to LED sources here, but they always are MUCH higher priced and I have not been able to figure out why. (Other than these have to have switches installed, but that does not justify the steep increase)

I can't seem to find the current hit on these, I guess I will find out how much of a dent they make and do a measurement myself.

LED's are defiantly the way to go and fun to mess with . Autolumination has great stuff and I have bought goodies there myself. My green underbody lights and others. I think also they are hear locally in Gilbert for us Arizona folk.

Underbody LED video

Inside green LED mood lighting

LED lighting has come a long way in the last year and a bit. Buying LEDs for an all-LED-lit trailer still isn't cheap, but the amount of light they produce has gone up, the price has come down, and the range of products and formats available has tripled or more.

i looked at those and ended up going with a switch type. i hope they look as good as yours do. i found this one for outside. i love the idea of it b/c the batteries can be taken out when not in use. nice to help find your way to a trailer in the dark, i am going to try and use it as an outdoor light up top b/c i don't have one.
http://www.theledlight.com/Wireless-LED-Step-Light.html

I bought one of these 6 LED motion sensor lights to use as a porch light, but I like it so much that I kept it inside, next to the sink. It turns on as soon as I open the door and is bright enough to light up the whole trailer. It can be turned off, turned on, or left to the motion sensor. It has a light detector so it doesn't turn on during the day. I went back and got two more, one for my pantry and another one to attach as a porch light!
It comes with a mount that it slides on, so I can take it off when traveling. I don't know if it is weather proof, but for $10 I'm willing to find out!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=99938

Gina did the light have a on/off switch?
Dave

Hi Dave, no, you need to wire one in. Its not hard. You just put a spst in series with either of the lines. I use the +, some use the -, but it really makes no difference in this application. You just need to break the circuit somewhere.

I bought switches yesterday and will install today. I'll take pictures.

Why not just get the High Powered 24 LED Aquarium, Reptile & Dome & Utility Light on the same page . It has a switch built into it. Seems like a good price $12.99.

Can not wait to see the pictures.
Some say you need more then the 24 leds but they do say they are 8mm that may help.
I am thinking of getting both the cool white and the warm white.
Thanks dave

Dave, I have examples of the differences between the two. I actually like a combo of them both.. more on that later.

OKEY Dokey..

Lets remove stuff from the trailer. In this case, the airline style overhead incandescents. I like them and all, but they are rarely used, and that is a perfect spot for the new leds.. so out they came and into storage they went.

I cheated and took the picture after I pulled the fixture and drilled the hole for the switch :-P.. just pretend the switch hole isn't there K?

I had to temporarily take down my cold cathodes, not a big deal, they are actually held up with office supplies I used Fancy suction cup document clips (Secured with screws from underneath) that have a round interior. When the CCs are mounted, they appear to be floating below the surface of the cabinet. So, I just removed them from the clips and let them dangle while I was doing this side of the trailer. They had to come down for the switch hole that you are STILL pretending you don't see.

Ah, here is is, you can look now.. its there.

Wiring for the non Electronically inclined.

After the hole is drilled, time to start wiring the fixture. I used a pre wired Single Pole Single Throw push switch with a low profile. I prefer push to paddle, but there are no particular advantages to a push over a paddle when stuff is this small. I have both kinds, as you will see. *Normally*, I would solder and heat shrink but because most folks don't, I crimped this single connection for the masses. (And before ya start, in my 35+ years in electronics manufacturing, I have seen many crimps fail, including from corrosion, but never a *properly* tinned and soldered wire join corrode and fail. It's all in the prep and skill, just like anything else)

Attach one of the wires (Makes no difference which one) to the + side of the fixture, in this case, the red wire. The other wire on the switch will simply go to the + side of your 12v feed. You can put the switch on the negative/ground side of switch and feed as well, if you prefer. Either one works. A Single Pole Switch is nothing more the a gate to allow the electrons of a single wire to flow through. In a two wire circuit like this (+/-) all you want to do is "break" the flow of one, and the light or "thing" you are wiring will stop working because the circuit can not be completed)

Click to view attachment

*Make note that these fixtures are prewired to DC standard, meaning the black wire is Negative/Ground. Double check your trailer wiring with a meter to determine the + line. My first Burro wire colors were to DC standard, this one is to AC standard, which is the reverse (White is the ground) Always check, never assume the wire color has anything to do with... anything.

You aren't ready to hook up the wires to your 12v system yet. You have to mount your switch in that hole you are now allowed to see first.

Click to view attachment

If you buy a new switch, it should come with all the hardware to mount it. Stick switch through the hole and install the finish nut to secure it.. no degree required. The nut on this switch recesses into the glass making a nice reasonably flush fit. (The paddle switch next to it is for the Cold Cathodes and was wired exactly as this one is)

Next, I simply attached the + and - wires to my 12v feed, secured with wire nuts along with the wires from my cold cathodes and stuff them up into the gap.

Also note that all those loose wires are not live, I pulled the fuse from my battery main feed before I started any of this... as you probably should too.

Because the airline style fixtures left that huge lovely hole in the glass, I had to mount the LED fixture onto some wood large enough to cover the gap. I used scraps from my ongoing cabinet finishing project.

There are 4 nice holes in the fixture to do this with. I used short wood screws to .

I drilled a pass through hole in each corner of the wood backer and then ran long hi-low screws through to the glass. All snug as a bug. I used a white caulk to conceal some of the edge gaps between wood and glass, and will sand/scrape the over spill on the edge after it dries so the wood is seen again. Tomorrow...

Remount the cold cathodes, energize the 12v system, push the switch and *WALLA*

its hard to take pics of working lights in daylight, but here are examples of the differences between the warm and cool whites. (Blue is the "cool" white)

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

and I actually like a combo of both.. but that defeats the point of saving battery power.

I did not remove the old blue ones.. didn't see a reason to. They don't hurt anything there and I can use them as the mood strikes me.

Bill, just saw your post.

The blue domes you see are those. They just came out with the ones with the switch.

The LEDS in them are smaller, and as you can see from the pics above, even two of those (48 leds total) are not as bright as the single fixture with the 24 8mm LEDs.

My meter has a blown fuse in it (Nope, I didn't do it) so I can't measure the current draw right now.

Just got a e-mail from superlumination they said you can order the JUMBO led lights with an on/off switch .
They reported that they produce 70-90 lumens.

I e-mailed them back to see what the price is with the switch .
Thanks GINA
ps. post what the draw is sometime.
DAVE

My meter has puked.. if you talk to them, ask them what the spec is.

I sent an email asking about the current draw -- here's the query and response:

Query
I am interested in your "item #24" aka "24 LED (Large 8mm leds) Ceiling- Utility Lights"

What is the current draw?

Are they available with a built-in switch?

If so, what do they cost with the switch and how do I specify that model in my order?

Thanks!

Answer
Hi-

Those lights do not come with a built-in switch.

We have switches that can be wired in here:

http://autolumination.com/flash.html

Or, any switch can be used.

Those lights draw 0.2 - 0.3 amps at 12 volts.

Thank You

Chris Bacon

Thanks Dana. .3 amps is good.

There are two "Jumbo" fixtures.. there are cool white small ones that are called Jumbo, and they are the smaller bluish ones you see in my pics. They recently added the switch to them as an option.

Go to Radio Hack and pick up a "Mini" single pole, single throw switch.. they are about 4 bucks each (Over priced IMHO) but easy to find there.

Why not just buy these switches when you get your lights for $1.99 [at]?

You would have to ask him, but it's the other switches on the page he is referring to, I think.. at 3 bucks.. and bulky.

There is a fused toggle at the bottom tho. That will work.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Read the thread and ordered the large warm white lights.

Bought switches at the local auto parts store (liked the colors).

Bought the voltage regulators at Radio Shack (Thanks for the tip!)

Made and finished the frame from scraps on hand.

Hangers are key-hole type from hardware store.

Mounted light on 1/8 hardboard, secured on frame with glazier's points.

Soldered and finished.

Total cost - about $23.00 and a couple of hours work per fixture. Satisfaction - Priceless.

Good thread, great ideas.

very nice!

I did the two up front in mine then headed off for a 4 day weekend.. had clouds and rain and thunder... but a very brightly lit trailer with no concern for battery power. It was as bright as these giant stickies that come in here requiring 50a service.

Guess I missed the photos. Where should I look for them?
Thanks,
Jody

I didn't have my "Lack of memory" card with me on that trip... no pics!

I am ALWAYS forgetting one.

Tom U why the voltage regulators.
Where did you get that info.
Thanks Dave

LEDs are still very sensitive to over voltage.. most older converters can possibly cook them when they go into desulfate mode (Voltage shoots up to +14v or more)

I don't use regulators because I don't use my converter.. I hate them, but that another thread.

I run off my battery only for 12v.

Dave, I found the info in the thread Experimenting with LED options by peterh. The info is on the first page. I posted a 'Thank you' to Peter to bring the thread up front. Reasons and wiring diagram toward bottom of page.

Luck!

Just ordered 8 LED lights from autolumination, and now wait my next project.

After treating the SCAMP to some rough back country I:
1) Fixed the fridge, stove and sink.
2) gave the wood a coat of tung oil
3) tighten all nuts and bolts
and am looking forward to some other modifications this sure is fun.

DAVE tight lines

I just now took apart my Autoluminance 24-LED warm white dome because it looked like I could fit the batteries and switch entirely inside.

I am impressed!!!

The dome contains a little circuit board with a constant-current power supply that will accept anything from 9 to 36 volts and still keep the current to the LEDs stable.

So don't worry about being a little over 12v, or even 15v -- the LEDs will be just fine.

The only gotcha is that if the voltage is high the constant-current power supply heats up more than normal, and will turn itself off if its temperature gets too high. It will turn on again once it cools down.

They use the MBI 6650 constant current power LED driver made by Macroblock. The data sheet can be found at http://www.dhes.co.kr/pdf/MBI6650_Advance_..._2_20070627.pdf

Oh yes, there's room for the batteries (a 3-cell LiPoly pack) and switch in the dome, so I can make the light completely self-contained.

Cyndi - I'd love to know how this worked out for you. I just wired a back porch light on, but the wire connection inside the wall is weak, so it's only a matter of time before gravity combined with road bounce does in the connection. PLUS my light doesn't have a motion sensor! That COULD be handy!

Jen

Thanks Gina I just finished installing the 8 LED I got from autolumination and love the way they turn out.
Tonight was the first time to see then all in the night.
Thank to all for all the HELP.
DAVE

AMPS
Just checked the amp draw on my new LED lights from autolumination.
JUMBO 24 8mm LED (installed push button switches)
COOL WHITE-0.14 amps
WARM WHITE- 0.11 amps
JUMBO HIGH POWER 24 LED UTILITY LIGHT w/switch
WHITE-0.08
OLD lights taken out (orignal) 1.35 amps
Also in SCAMP
WATER PUMP 1.70 to 2.70 amps
FAN- 1.52 amps
XM RADIO-on 0.36 amps / off but still plugged into 12 volt 0.19 amps
VOLTMETER 0.02 amps
Still need to check Heater Fan
DAVE

This past weekend did 4 days on Kelly Creek Idaho left the LED lights on at night as much as possible before bed. Checked them with a VOLT MINDER (gary is a great guy) WOW very little volt draw.
I am impressed!
Now with the solar panels I feel power is no problem.
PS It was cold ran heater Monday morning battery still seem fine after taking the chill out of the Scamp.
DAVE

This time last year we had just gotten back from a trip to Yellowstone where nighttime temperatures were in the teens. With its 50-watt roof-mount solar panel, 55 amp-hour AGM battery and LED lighting throughout, our trailer was perfect for dry-camping. Just about the only thing that is high-demand electric in our dry-camp setup is the furnace.

The pity was the furnace ran just about all night the first night we were at Yellowstone and just about flattened our battery. There's a story about that here, somewhere. The point is, even small solar setups will likely provide enough juice to keep your LED lights on. It's when you throw in a high-amp appliance or two that hings go rapidly downhill.

We considered two approaches to fixing our furnace power situation. One was to buy a Wave 3 catalytic heater. The other was to expand our solar capacity.

The Wave 3 catalytic heater uses no battery power at all, so it's a great option if you run on solar. We bought one but decided to upgrade our solar panels instead, but the Wave 3 may yet go in to our trailer. Why? The same reason that catalytic heaters don't suck battery reserves down also makes them almost silent: they have no energy-sucking, noise-making fan. That gets real attractive when the noisy furnace comes on several times a night.

The other option we explored was to add capacity to our solar array so we can replenish our battery more easily. We decided to install a second, 55-watt solar panel on our roof, bringing our system capacity up to 105 watts. 105 watts should be adequate to top our batteries off after a cold, cold night as long as we park in a sunny spot. Parking in a warm, sunny spot is not a problem when the temps drop below freezing at night; for times when it's warmer I'm figuring the heater won't need to run as much and we can park in a spot with partial shade and still come out on top.

Peter,

You may have mentioned this before, but can you remind me what kind of solar panels you have? I haven't kept up on new developments since I last used them boating, which was a number of years ago. At that point in time, the rigid panels would pretty much quit putting out if they were even slightly shaded (like by a rope's shadow even). There were flexible panels that would work when partially shaded, but the trade-off was that they didn't put out as much as the rigid panels when it was sunny.

I know things are probably evolving by the day with solar stuff. I'd love to put a panel on the roof of my camper, so I could "fit and forget," but I had thought that would be a no-no because I like to park in the shade (or partial shade).

Thanks,
Raya

Just briefly, there are three commercially available types of solar panels. Amorphous panels have been the cheapest ($3.00/watt), but also the least efficient (5-8% conversion of solar energy to electricity) and least durable (5 year lifetime when continuously exposed) panels on the market. Their energy output falls rapidly as the angle of the sun falling on the panel increases.

Monocrystalline and polycrystalline panels are head over heels more efficient than amorphous panels and have a much longer life expectancy (25 years when fully exposed). The "crystalline" structure of these panels also allow them to capture light energy at a wider range of bandwidths and and angles, so these panels continue to deliver usable power as the sun gets low on the horizon and in slightly shaded conditions. Dapple wunlight under a tree will not deliver full power, but it may deliver 10-25% of what you'd get under full sun, which is better than nothing.

In other words it's still a good idea to have a mobile panel you can place in the sun. I roof-mounted my panels both to simplify our set-up chores (our solar charging system is always set up and "always on") and make them very hard to steal. The downside is we paid for that choice by having to install more panels on our roof than we'd need if we had a more mobile setup.

Advances in growing crystals have also made the new generation of panel much more efficient. At 16-18% efficiency my Seimens "monocrystalline" panels (one 50 & one 55 watt) were king of the hill five years ago, but some of todays polycrystal panels claim up to 22% efficiency, and they do this while costing less new than I paid for my panels used! I've seen prices well under $3.00 per watt recently, but paid just over $4 per watt for my panels on the used market.

Solar technology is continuing to improve. New (currently much more expensive) solar technology promises to boost crystalline panel power production to 30%, and other technologies that emulate the ways plants collect sun light look like they'll allow us to create flexible plastic solar panels with an efficiency rating over 40% and which will perform better in the shade and better as the sun heads down the horizon. Cool stuff . . . but many years out.

--P

Peter,

Thanks for the info. What you posted sounds pretty similar to what I had to choose from, and 10% or a bit more sounds about right for partially shaded output. I thought perhaps you had panels that would do more like 50% or more when partially shaded, and that I wanted to know about

A thin, adhesive panel that would work decently in partial shade would be fabulous, wouldn't it?

I love the idea of roof-mounted panels, for security and ease of use; I just can't decide if they would be good enough for my use vs. shaded parking spots. I'll have to pay more attention to how often the roof is shaded.

Raya