As we are getting closer to taking out my 13' Burro on her first camping trip since the 1980's, I was wondering a couple of things about safely heating and cooling it. (No installed insulation, but all new seals on doors and windows.)

We have installed a removable AC unit in the front window for the Summer, but for Winter time I am looking for something to keep us warm in the egg. Now, I am in Texas, and plan on doing my camping in the south, so I doubt it'll ever see anything below about 25deg F. Would one of those little cube ceramic heaters be sufficient?

Also, what is really needed for safety as far as venting etc, both when using the heater and when using the AC unit in the Summer? There will be 2 adults and 2 children sleeping in the camper, so how can I best be certain that we get proper ventilation, while still keeping in the heat/AC? Should I install a CO2 detector?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!!

As far as I know, ventilation safety only becomes an issue when using propane powered appliances, and not for electric appliances.
I could be wrong...

I would think that you'd need to close the windows and vents when using air conditioning.
I have one of those cube ceramic heaters in my un-insulated 16' Fiber Stream, and it heats well.

Thanks for the reply. I think one of those cube heaters is just the ticket. I agree that I don't want to let out too much AC, but at the same time, I want to make sure that I have enough ventilation that it is safe to have 4 people sleeping in such a small camper.

Hmm.. So I guess I am wondering, are these things just not air tight enough to worry about having 4 people in such a small space?

I had a 13 ft Burro for a long time, with insulation. When I had hook ups, I used the electric cube heater exclusively, down into the teens. It did fine for heat. You will have a bigger problem with condesation, which makes itself readily appearant on those glass walls. Even with the cube heater, 1 person and 2 dogs, it can be a pain.

You will want to crack your roof vent for sure, to allow moisture to escape from the condensation, but *COs* and other byproducts are not an issue unless using propane. (As far as I know)

Nope, even when they appear to be sealed up, air will still get in. The windows, when slid shut, will still have a gap where the two meet, and the cupboards will get it from vent openings like the fridge etc, if you have one. They are not airtight by any means.


Bring lots of paper towels and keep the windows wiped down, or it will seem like a damp goey mess in there.

Thanks Gina D. I'll do just that. I would guess this condensation issue will only be a problem in the Winter though, as the AC should keep the air pretty dry in the Summer I would think. We do plan to cook in there so I will be getting a carbon monoxide and smoke detector for safety.

Craig,
While I have used several of those cube heaters on a sailboat for several years without any problem, you have to be very careful with them. We never had an issue, nor do most people.
However, in the office where my wife used to work, one suddenly erupted in flames. Suddenly, and with no warning. This was a relatively new unit and an expensive one at that. Not some cheap thing.
If that should happen, then you need the correct type of fire extinguisher to use to put out the flames. Remember that you are spraying an electrical appliance. There was a huge amount of smoke from the incident.
I would suggest that they are great while you are awake and able to cope. I would shut them off while sleeping and use a down comfortor or something similar.
Perhaps our experience is one in a million, but you should at least be aware of what can happen.
Best regards and enjoy your trailer.
Mike


post edited to remove electric blanket. Gina D. made me aware of what can happen with those as well.
Mike

I can tell you from personal experience, 2 skin grafts on my left leg and 2 mos. in a wheelchair recovering with my leg stretched straight out that the spontaneous combustion "1 in a million" happens with electric blankets as well.

Down comforters, however, never spontaneously combust, and that is what I use now. I *rarely* sleep with the heater on, but in some cases, such as sub freezing weather, it is not only required for your health and comfort, but to keep the trailer from freezing.. water etc.

The heater wont do much for the outside lines, but it is heart wrenching to see a Beagles face when it wants a drinky at 3 am and the only thing in the bowl is ice.

Gina, I am so sorry to hear of your burns from an electric blanket. Most importantly, I hope that you have fully recovered from that awful ordeal.
I have gone back and edited my post to remove any suggestion of electric blankets and instead suggested down comfortors as you now use.
Best regards, and thanks for sharing your personal experience.
Mike

corrected spelling error

Thanks, that was a long time ago and the scars have faded... but remember "Scars are souvenirs you never lose" :-P

My point, actually, was that there are any # of items that can cause harm in your rig.. your fridge could burn up as well.. someone here had that happen to them.

Common sense should prevail in any situation, but keep in mind that safety is not just an afterthought designed into these items, it is generally the first consideration given by reputable manufacturers and engineers. (And they fear lawyers as much as anyone does too!) Stuff happens tho.. and the very very rare failure of an item in this regard should not deter one from using one responsibly and safely.

There is no doubt a greater risk to the kids health to sleep in and wake up in sub freezing conditions than there is from a heater OR an electric blanket.

My preferred heater in the trailer is a baseboard style unit, no fan. But when it gets down around freezing in my 17' a cube's fan will circulate the heat around more effectively (and I can point it at wherever I am besides).

About comforters: you'd be surprised how warm a silk comforter can be. I think ours is warmer than down, with less bulk and no bunching inside. Then of course there's always good old (but heavy) wool blankets.

Craig,

To eliminate condensation I do what Gina does, I also use a solar tarp over a comforter (uhaul blanket) I place on the roof when in 20 or below, this does away with condensation. Use of the cube heater when shore power is available or my propane passive convection furnace is more than enough.

Avoid the "buddy" heaters, I have seen some awful things from these.

The cats are good to a point but the moisture issue is worse using them as they release water.

On propane...the rule I follow is this...it must use an outside supply of air, and exhaust combustion products into the outside environment...with kids never compromise on this.

Happy Camping, Safe Trails.

Harry

I'm glad I read this, I was considering buying an electric blanket for the Northern Oregon gathering next month. I have one of the little cube heaters that I bought at a garage sale. I've used it several years. The only trouble I have with it is that it gets too warm in my 13 ft. casita even at the lowest setting. I have to keep unplugging it periodically. fortunately the plug is by the bed.

Anything that generates heat and has an electrical cord can develop a short circuit. When I was a kid, we almost lost our home because of a coffee pot that shorted out. Fortunately my father saw the fire and was able to get it under control before anything truly bad happened. So, if you have a coffee pot, toaster oven, electric blanket, cube heater, waffle iron, toaster, etc., etc., this is something to watch out for.

I have an electric blanket that I've started using while fall/spring camping. It's made the sleeping experience wonderful. I nearly froze my buns off at last year's Fall NOG....no more! If I go to bed cold, I can't seem to warm up. Now, I crank the ole electric blank up on high... get the bed toasty warm, crawl in and get my body warmed up, then unplug it. Most times I can sleep through the night without plugging it back in, but if I need to the plug is right by the bed. Repeat the process. It's a twin bed size, I don't tuck it in... just lay it out and allow it to crawl up the walls. Crimping and folding wires is never a good idea in any electric appliance.

I'm really, really sorry Gina suffered a horrible experience because of an electric blanket. But, it won't prevent me from using one. Neither should the fact my home almost burned down because of a coffee pot prevent anyone from having and using one either.

Your mileage may vary.

I'm intrigued by Harry's solution. Is the solar tarp one of those silver survival blankets? How do you get the "blanket" and the tarp up over the rig? I assume you take it off in the morning (if the temp goes below 20 degrees) and put it up again at night. I always prefer the low tech way of dealing with issues.

As am I, that's a pretty neat setup! How do you keep it secured, do you tie it down to the frame?

Thanks for all the tips guys. I think we will be camping with our 9 month old son this winter, but it will be in New Mexico and Arizona, so I would think the cube heater will be sufficient. We'll just dress him in something really warm I'd expect. Then again, it might not even be cold at all in late December in AZ.

I don't want to hijack the original subject, but I'm also intrigued by the idea of putting a blanket on my trailer at night - that's genius!! Its like wearing a hat in the winter Great idea for those of us with just the double walls (Uhaul for me) who don't have any insulation between the shells. I would think that an old comforter and a tarp tied down with bungies could work.

Below is a link to show what I use, Homedepots and Lowes sell them too, I buy one large enough, then throw it over the trailer with the blanket under it. I do cut to size, re grommet and use a double hem when I grommet it so it fits neatly.

Harry

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...Itemnumber=1433

Bingo Pam, I got inspired by a tea cozy my Mum uses.

Harry

What about using the heater in the trailer? We just got back from our first ever trip and we used my Scamps built in heater that runs off of propane, but it vents to the outside. Are these heat sources for people without a built in heater or do people with with built in heaters not use these other means to heat the trailer?

Thanks

I can only answer for myself. But, I'm typically hooked up to electric. I find the Scamp's built-in furnace to be extremely noisy. Since there's electric available, and I've paid for it, I use a much quieter electric cube heater. Under this condition, why "spend" the propane is my thinking. The furnace is available... when not hooked up to electric though.

YMMV

Instead of Harry's tea cozy you could use sprayon foam insulation on your trailer.

Here's an example:

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

I've heard of "mothballing" equipment but never seen anything like this. Wow.

The next owner of that trailer will come to FiberglassRV and ask members "what's the best wax to use, the gelcoat on mine is pretty dull."

I suppose if you were going to permanently park a trailer and use it for a survivalist camp the sprayon foam might work...

Fred Flintstone's camper!

I guess I should say that it was set up for use in Alaska.

Here's a portion of the original craigslist ad -- I have left off the seller's phone number because the trailer is long gone.



Burning Man Special. Get Your Rock On, with this Mobile Cave! - $555 (Reno, NV)
Date: 2009-08-18, 12:24PM PDT

20 feet long Travel Travel.
Spray On Insulation 6" deep, keeps you warm in the winter and cool in the summer.
Built for cozy camping in the Alaskan winter.
Axle is a 1-Ton Dodge Truck Axle
Tires are 235/85R16 Load Range E Truck Tires with Full Size Spare Wheel.
Clear NV Title.

We ordered our Trillium without all those messy appliances. We use a plain electric space heater we bought from Ace Hdwe when our other one died:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.j...clickid=prod_cs

The output rating (3 heat settings 600/900/1500W) is the same as for the ceramic. I don't really know why a ceramic would be any better. Besides, why buy a $30 heater when there are $20 ones available.

We only run it while awake. We had a toaster oven burn up the corner of our kitchen once, and so don't leave any electric appliance run unattended.

If getting up during the night to use the porta-potti, the heater heats it up really quickly, remember the Oregon Spring Nog last year?

We, too, have problems with condensation on the walls. We leave a window cracked and the roof vent open a little which helps, but doesn't eliminate it altogether.

One point I don't see discussed is when you have four people in such a small space, body heat alone will help a lot. The human body produces about 100 watts, so three persons, counting the two small ones as one adult, would produce about 300 watts of heat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(power)

We do have the factory installed furnace in our 13' Scamp. However, we do use a small cube heater whenever we're hooked up to 110V. I works great, saves propane and is much quieter. Good luck, Ron

Craig,
You could put some of that thin foil bubble insulation between the shells. I just did mine and it was simple. I couldn't get between all of the panels, but it does make a huge difference. The condensation problem is much more evident now on the uninsulated areas.

OOH Don't forget to install a smoke alarm!

Maybe you could drill a small hole in the uninsulated areas and spray in some of this:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.j...hId=42641045853

I don't have personal experience with this but I am sure some of our readers have.

Good idea in concept but......
You have to be very careful in this application to get a foam with almost no expansion capability.

I have seen entire houses lifted from the foundation by overzealous application of expanding foam in every crack. It is not hard to imagine what could happen to a Burro if too much was applied between the shells,it may end up like the Flintstone rig in the thread?

I have used the Hilti foam they sell at Home Depot and it comes in different expansion grades.
It seems to a higher grade product than the Great Stuff too and easier to control out of the straw.

For sure you want to try some in the thickness you are trying for on a test surface before going at the Burro.

It is fun to use though!