Hello I’m planning to do some traveling and am open to all advice especially from fulltimers.

You see I’m planning a long range trip using my horses as my only mode of power. My daughter Meg is soon to be off to college. I’m divorced and feeling wanderlust BIGTIME. Now I assure you this is not a joke, as some have thought.

I have built several wagons old school and some new auto type. My horses are Percheron heavy draft that I also saddle, so I am not worried about temperament or pulling ability. My usual wagon is an old bomb carrying trailer [airforce] weighs in at 1700 lbs and I usually only pull with one horse with who ever wants to ride [usually 1100 to 1400 lbs more] and Cody can handle 3-4 hrs of steady motion. His little brother is doing very well also and they are learning to team well. Here is a list of things I would like to hear talked about:

1. What trailer?? Fiberstream?? Compact?? Scamp??

2. Will I be welcomed by all you egg folk??

3. Campgrounds? A fellow in Colorado got over his stun and said sure bring it on he would like to see that.

4. Can I stretch the frame in front to add room for hay and attach a front axle on any of these things?

5. I’m not too worried about money BUUUTTTT can you think of anybody that might sponsor to some degree? I am fairly sure to get some attention on my journey and a paint logo doesn’t weigh much.

6. Anybody else want to go for a slow ride?? Do you have a wagon?? I might take one rider but you would have to learn fast. Work hard and pretty much be content to go where I am pointed I don’t have a time limit or direction. I can be patient I’m training two teenage boys to train four mares [insert gales of laughter here] but be honest if BIG horses scare you please stay home.

7. Tell me all I have forgotten and am just plain stupid about.

As far as #2 is I beleive you would be welcome with what ever Moulded Fiberglass Trailer you get. How you pull it is your concern. It would be great to see.

When I was a sprout and marched in a drum & bugle corps, we always hated to be placed behind horses in a parade. One could slip and fall. As long as that problem is taken care of, bring 'er on!!

hahaha well said we have way to many cowboys in my town who dont carry plastic bags.
In fact 3 of the police have even learned to tell my horse poop apart from a quarter horse


SIZE MATTERS

1. What trailer?? Fiberstream?? Compact?? Scamp??

anything will work... do the math- what can your horses pull? Keep in mind uphill loads.

2. Will I be welcomed by all you egg folk??

Don't ask that question, just belly on up....

3. Campgrounds? A fellow in Colorado got over his stun and said sure bring it on he would like to see that.

For heaven's sake, you can boondock along the way. Who needs to pony up $20 bucks a night to park next to big RV'S? Also, You'll need some maps to help you stay off the interstates. Also, some maps will tell you where there's room on the road, and where there isn't. You don't want cars going 100 miles an hour shaving your ears off. I suggest anything for cyclists would be good enough for a horse drawn rig.

4. Can I stretch the frame in front to add room for hay and attach a front axle on any of these things?

With a welding torch you can do prit'neer whatever you need to do. Yes, a front axle as long as the tongue turns the wheels

5. I’m not too worried about money BUUUTTTT can you think of anybody that might sponsor to some degree? I am fairly sure to get some attention on my journey and a paint logo doesn’t weigh much.

Start a blog or website, something with a catchy phrase... and have a place for a person to donate. Then, put your website on the back of your rig for a little advertisement. You never know, you might get rich!

6. Anybody else want to go for a slow ride?? Do you have a wagon?? I might take one rider but you would have to learn fast. Work hard and pretty much be content to go where I am pointed I don’t have a time limit or direction. I can be patient I’m training two teenage boys to train four mares [insert gales of laughter here] but be honest if BIG horses scare you please stay home.

Again, place that on your website or blog, and you're likely to have more company than you bargained for!

7. Tell me all I have forgotten and am just plain stupid about.

You haven't forgotten a thing. I say, get started, you can always modify things along the way!

Well shucks you all are just regular folk ain't you. A blog huh. That's a good idea thank you! These are all good news to me. I figured I'd get shot down hard, an then do it any way.

KEEP THE GOOD IDEAS COMING PPL

You could follow the Lewis & Clark Trail out. Of course they used boats much of the time. Hmm. But you would proceed at about their pace.

Then you can arrive at Dismal Nitch:

ummm I'm not sure if I want to arrive there. But that would be a nice long trip. Any recommendations on brands? I sure like the look of Fiberstream but all I see are in California that's a long way to go for an unknown quantity.

This reminds me of the goat man who I saw on a couple of occasions back in the 50s.

He had an old wagon pulled by goats and he roamed the highways of the entire US with that rig.

Jim
Stupid? Who am I to say?
Crazy? FOR SURE! Like all the horse folk I know,that is what I like about the idea.
I am close to the most famous draft horses here,I think they drink the product myself as the Clydesdales are pretty high-strung.

Where are you here in the Show-Me state?
I am in STL,I have a Fiberstream I will be selling and who knows?
At the very least you are welcome to check it out.

Also I would think it will be a no-brainer to network with other horse people along the way and camp for free at their barns as you go.
I can't think of anyone I know who wouldn't want to be part of the adventure.
The bigger barns may also make decent sponsors?

Let me know.
Ed

I marched in plenty of parades and know exactly what you are talking about! I had many friends in drum corps. Which one were you in?

My wifes brother in law raised and showed Belgians. At the larger Horse Shows he was classed with the professional brewery teams and usually came home with some top honours. Your Perch's won't have any trouble with just about any FG trailer. You may have to add a steel stone guard to protect the front though.
Check ahead as to wether or not the campgrounds will accept animals. A lot won't let you in with pets so a team of horses may be denied also.
What about feed and water. Are you going to haul it along or depend on foraging? Those four-footed engines have a powerful apetite when working.
You could give us a new topic of conversation ..."How many miles to the bale?"

ahhh yes my grandfather [phx ariz]told me about the goatman.i have owned several goats.found them to be intellegent playfull but rarely forgiving animals.not like a horse or dog not at all.very good friends with a warped humor.NEVER HIT A GOAT WITH MORE THAN A FEW OUNCES OF FORCE.they think its a game.and once hit will wait for years.sometimes with humor sometimes with the most deadly intent.and a billy can crush a grown man.that said they are very gentle creatures until taught evil like a deer really thank you for sharing this memory. goatman may you walk in the arms of the shepard

Have you considered a double draw single tongue yoke for your horses.

I calculate the sholder weight on each horse to be less than 150 pounds, based on an 8 foot single bar extension to a 17' Casita with a hitch weight of less than 500 pounds.

I am certain the two Percherons can pull the 3,000 pound tow weight without to much difficulty.

WHOOO HOOO HIP HIP HOOORAY. no offence to all the nice ppl i have met here but ed you are my favorite person i have spent hours trying to find you[and my way back to this web site] i went somwhere on here and it said i could add you as my friend so i did.i have read everything i could find and like something about most all the trailers here but the fiberstream just holds my eyes.ed i hope not to be a pest but where do i send questions to you.saw pics of your red trim jacked up model noticed all the new wires paint bolts wow.have you dedicated your life to preserving fiberstream or what..... you sir have a passion......now have i given you enough of a deservedly swollen head that you would consider sending me a few thousand pics of every stream you have ever seen.is there any place you ever wrote down every thought you had about fiberstreams.good bad or totaly random.do you have a blog? well shoot ed i have to go there are other ppl who sent me letters here and i have 2 boys coming soon they need to learn to build a rock sled.

oh no i calculate that they eat less than 3 country miles for evey mile of pull.hahaha lol
truly i will carry square bales but will forage heavely and probly pull with one while one grazes at least part of each day the grazer will just have to get his bites on the move which dosent seem to slow them down at all.

I wonder if it would be easier or better to mount the fiberglass RV on a hay wagon rather than adding a steering front axel to the RV?

now see thats why i come here
my current wagon is an old airforce bomb wagon[poetic aint it from bombs to picnic and parade duty]
i can hitch tandem, 1 in front of the other single, [my favorite] or double hitch.
or pull 1 bolt and slide in a 2 in ball coupler
shoulder weight will be very low as i will have wheels in front google up pioneer forecart.
my daughter and i both love the casita [meg especially] but they may have a problem i cant over come that large beautiful bathroom in front. i plan on being able to drive from inside the trailer at least part time.
the last thing i want is to be sick or hurt in 33 degree rain in front of a trailer tire.although my horse would prob just stop and look at me if i did fall off.he has done this many times under saddle.
and once pulled a skid stop on pavement to keep from running over 3 kids who looked both ways before stepping in front of a wagon and freight weighing in at at least 5000 lbs GOOD PUPPY BAD HUMAN!!!!!
good ideas all keep em coming guys

Calm down there Jim!

I think you have me confused with Fred maybe? He has the jacked up Fiberstream with the red stripe but he is in California not Missouri.

I am in St.Louis and my Fiberstream is a little newer than his and not as well tended to.

They are different than all other rigs here for sure and feel roomier inside and have tandem axles with leaf springs and not the single torsion axle that is common here.

Like I said you are welcome to give it a look.

I will PM you and we can go from there.

Ed

this an idea that i have considered and i think im not after i did my homework on this heres why.
1 fair condition used 700.00
2 no brakes
3 HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY
4 lots of underneath room which im not sure i need. if i take my chickens i will only take a few 10-15
[thats 3 eggs on the worst day possible]
although 10 chickens 2 milk goats 2 pyrenees and 2 percherons would give me a true gypsy air.that i would love and it would certainly decrease my need for walmart.
but then i would have to paint everything bright RED, LIME GREEN, and dont forget YELLOW.
i dont think im quite ready for that
but i do have to admit a perverse part of me would laugh every mile
thank you for the post
and google up [pioneer forecart] they make life easy IF you are rich

The 5th wheel model would let you drive under an overhang.... Maybe you could mod one to add a cab area to the front. Most wagons set up so much higher than the eggs. Maybe you need the double trailer model. One to live in and one flatbed for hay. Just add a hitch to the back for a small hay/feed wagon.

pioneer forcart: yeah that would be nice. I didn't even look at the prices.

ummmmm.CONFUSED????no prob im used to that.do you mean to say ther is more than one fiberstream fellow on here!!!! wow stunned silence.i live in greenfield mo i love this little town but in 3 min you can get an opinon pole of the whole town we have 0 stoplights 9 churches and 2 bars.any idea how long a conversation lasts unless its about cattle or grass seed.we all go to the same resturant every sunday.the cook gets paid extra to burn ever few meals so we can have a conversation so your letter was meant to calm me down.ha ha ha ha .
i think i like this new fancy computer thing.mama said calif was a lie to sucker ppl into spending money.
so i would much rather talk to some one in saint louis HEY ED what is a PM.st louis i think i been there aint that the place where they got a shiney toll bridge that dont cross the river.
do i get pics?
does this trailer not fit your needs?????

now there is a new idea a fith wheel would give cover and as far as a cart when the big rig is parked.the front axle will only be hooked up to the trailer ball so it will swivel amd pivit it will be easy to uncouple and ride to town i will only take 4- 6 bales so that might fit under overhang w me. i went and looked at scamp 19
any other sugestions?

yes they are worth ever penny if you have that many penneys.
i am a very lucky man one of my best friends is a professional welder. i traded him a horse for a small simple cart.
so he took the horse,and then built a small independant coil spring a frame suspension that will adjust to fit a percheron or a tiny little mini horse with a custom oak slat bench seat that has lumbar support and 600 lbs carrying capacity.talk about sweeeet ride oh yea it fits behind my lawn mower too.what a guy he loves that horse.and hasent touched a drop of booze or weed in years.
anyway my other friend will give me a truck axle he said pick the one i want and its mine.
he is good horse ppl too.this will allow me to use a alternator for small electric needs while moving.
so if i put both friends together i will prob end up making a pioneer look bad.

KEEP THE GOOD IDEAS COMING THANKYOU JIM

ok i figured it out this place has mesages like yahoo.
now if i just figure out how to use it
hey Ed does fiberstream have a fiberglass bottem on the outside or plywood?

Get a Gypsy caravan and be done with it. They look like Fiberstreams and they're made for horses. Sheesh.
Gypsy Caravan

use one horse.....ride it, or walk beside it ........bring along a tent and supplies.

I'm also wondering what you plan to do when you come upon a highway? You cant go around can you?

I did some net research on the gypsy wagons a while back. I was interested in these, but there is virtually no market I could find in the US, making these a ground up custom build. (Also they don't travel at 60 mph very well).

ummmmm we have to go with no on that i am tooooo old

highways.......if a car can cross so can i.
i try very hard to be polite in all ways but in all honesty horses were here first.
there are towns that have no horse allowed laws.
and just as for overnight camper parking,there are websites for posting this info.
then again why would i want to go to town??????

oh man i loved that so much i had to bookmark it thankyou thankyou.
however i must say it looks very heavy.
with a light trailer i can go farther each day as beautiful as that is i wouldnt pull it with less than 3 heavy horse.
hmmmmm a unicorn hitch 1 in front 2 behind him i havent seen that done in a long time????
thankyou for the post jim

Are todays horses wimpy or something?..didnt our settlers use a two horse team strapped to a very heavy covered wagon etc loaded down with all they owned? and werent the bearings and wheels then alot less agreeable to rolling along ?....you should be able to pull just about anything that suits your fancy ...be it a gypsy wagon or sled....especially if youre not in a hurry

There are folks restoring old shepherd's wagons, and building new ones from scratch (if money is truly no object). A search on "sheep wagons for sale" or "shepherds wagons for sale" will turn up a few. Some have relatively modern running gear, with auto or truck tires. I even saw one that appeared to have a car hitch, so it was probably built for highway speeds, so probably not of interest...

o boy ummmm i suppose this seems like a simple question to ask.and i am very glad you did.
and im glad i get to be the one to answer your question.
this might be the longest response ever.
1 the horses that i have are a vast improvment above the best horses available in the era you speak of.
2the wagons they had actually rolled very easy bushings are still prefered today on low speed equipment.
all other things equal a larger tire rolls easier,and a harder tire rolls easier.this can be tested by checking your gas mileage at 15 psi against your normal mileage at 35 psi.
lets take a look at what they probly didnt own.toothbrush, toothpaste, more than 2 pair of shoes at best,
more than 3 changes of clothing.very few books.toilet w tank [try using a shovel today and see how long you stay out of jail]cellphone laptop[so my daughter knows we are alive] car battery to charge cell etc.now lets talk paperwork,birth insurance drivers medical military [that list can go on forever]but paper is light right? plus the box they go in.even pencils were rare.toilet paper.not much soap either.air tire pump.oh yea big weight diff they could carry several hundred lbs of meat in 1 pocket called a rifle round. [try staying out of jail on that one too]most didnt even have a dog.[plus doggy food min 50 lbs their dog hunted[can you say doggy jail]they carried very little hay. i will have 300 lbs min plus grain.do you see how each item has items that they require? draft tack per horse weighs almost 100 lbs.if they need leather they used something they shot[rawhide] again jail.now they did carry water but im sure most horse water was carried in the horse.most horses left well musceled and fat and arrived way lighter if alive.good subject i dont know of many[any] caravans that dident lose ppl.remember the part about a 1 lb item being supported by 20 lbs of stuff.and those that were stupid had a better chance of dieing therby improving the overall health of the caravan.their were no police then to force you to keep going when man or animal was already beyond endurance any place that looked good you were able to stop.ok indians yes but that as been greatly romanticised.
they also didnt have 6000 lb object blasting by at totaly stupid rates of speed around corners[if i die who will take cars of my animals] and lets face it back then many many of the ppl you speak of did not see the end of their journey.another good point my journey has no end im not headed anywhere to stay.umm welder 60 lbs[for the iron frame] toolbox 80 lbs.is ANYBODY still reading i would have quit long ago but this young man asked a very good question.and i feel obligated to answer all i can.oh yea 10 in tv i of course being the rugged pioneer type NEVER watch but my dog [lutack] says if anyone suggests leaving that behind he is ripping butt[dvd lassie reruns]
ok i quit thanks see ya jim

YES VERY good i have looked at them intently and i like them.there is even a company today that makes a modern version then i looked at the weight and price.then i looked at the wagon i have in my yard, hmmm.it would be so easy to do????? nope heavy heavy.i have talked briefly with a man on here that said he would consider selling me an fiberstream 16 ft and as heavy as they are that would be a lot lighter than what i would build.i am just pretty sure that some kind of egg is the way to go.the rear bath front dinette/bed and windows near the corner is perfect for me.
what are your thoughts on a blog or sponsorship of some kind??
by the way i really enjoy your input.thank you jim

Jim, how heavy are the sheep trailers you have looked at? I didnt think they would be that heavy. The first time I seen them they seemed like just the ticket for hunting camp. I really like how they go on a standard running gear and I think they would fit your needs alot better. Pulling a camper with a fore cart would be a jerky and bouncy because of where they connect to the cart. I have a pioneer cart and I dont think I would pull my camper with it if you had a gun to my head, thats how rough I think it would end up being.

The other thought I had was maybe you could have your welder friend make your fore cart into a 4 wheeled cart, similar to what poineer sells for power units. http://www.drivehorses.com/Products/4-whee...drive%20PTO.jpg In your case though, going off the fore cart, make it center articulating like the industrial end loaders. Have the back part of the cart 5X5 for your hay and grain storage and then the trailer could hook to that and it would ride alot better. If you have a coupling welded on your cart, a pin could be pulled, removing the trailing section. That would make it easy to go back to the origional pioneer cart when you are done with your trip.

As for sponsers, if your trip has a goal like a coast to coast trip or cancer awairness or something, I would bet a grain company would donate grain or something, maybe you could even arange to pick it up at co-ops along the way. Just start your blog now so they see what they will be getting for the donation. If you have a good blog, frequently updated with where you are, I bet local farmers who see it would offer you some hay as you go past. Sounds like an interesting trip.

Hello, Jim! Welcome!

When I lived in Flagstaff, Arizona, I met a gentleman who called himself "Bob Sundown". When I met him (back in about 1994) he was 74 years old. For decades, he traveled the road in a wooden gypsy wagon pulled by a team of two donkeys. He'd trade up to mules in areas with larger passes (he had a friend who would haul the replacement teams out).

I have some fantastic photos of Mr. Sundown, as when I first saw him, he was camping out at the Coconino County Fairgrounds, and I'd ridden my own horse over there.

If I recall, he traveled with a dog, and he had a few layer hens with him. Every town he visited, he seemed to know folks--he tended to stop for breaks in visible areas, made money by taking donations for photo ops...and welcomed folks to hang out and talk. I arranged to come back with my truck and get his 5-gallon water jugs filled for him; got him some feed for his horses and a few other minor errands.

First time I'd ever heard of him, he was on COPS...the officers (actually, it was also Flagstaff, filmed the year before I first met him) pulled over to check on him, and in an aside to the camera said that they looked after him when he came through...

Last I heard, old Bob had retired from the road to Salmon, Idaho. I have no idea if he's still living, and doubt it's his legal name, but you can see about looking him up.

Last month, in front of the grocery store in Thompson Falls, Montana, another home-made gypsy wagon with a team of Belgians was set up near the parking lot. A big burly guy was tending to them; turns out they're a wandering logging team.

Both of these characters have used highways for travel, though it is dangerous. Neither had continuous support teams.

Both draw a lot of attention, understandably.

I think that with the right planning, you could do a lot with your adventure plans. Get a blog and a PayPal account, and solicit donations; contact your favorite non-profit and see about an awareness partnership, but be prepared to sacrifice a little personal freedom for appearances, as well as having to be on good behavior when in public view!

Feel free to PM me if you want. I'm savvy with creative fund raising and public relations, and I'd love to see you GO FOR IT!

definately food for thought.i dont own a pioneer and wont they are just to high doller.we will build one.i would like you advice on this.please pm or e mail me.i think the trailer tounge should rest on a ball in the middle of the axle??
not a pin hitch???

warms my heart right up better thana cup of coffe on a cold day

Look this, i have this two pictures on my computer

Wind resistance won't be a factor at 2 HP speeds, so you can do all sorts of exterior mods to meet your cargo carrying needs. Add stuff to the front, the back, the top... whatever you need.

Wow, Yvon, cool Boler! I like it

YES YES YES same horse i have can you send this pic to my e mail
did you notice 1 horse is going straight and 1 is turning left ha ha
thank you.

Sorry Jim, I misunderstood, I thought you said earlier that you had a pioneer cart and were going to use that. Either way, if you have one that you will use or if you build one, I think it will be a rough riding mistake. If you have to start from scratch because you have nothing, then in a way you are ahead of the game because you can just build it the way you want to from the start. I think you will want something with 4 wheels, a 2 wheeled cart would be too jerky for my taste and since you have to build whatever you are going to use, just work on a 4 wheeled design.

Since you are starting with a clean slate, ignore my thought of a center articulated fore cart with trailing platform, just go to a small simple wagon. Something more along the line of the small Kory wagons might be a way to go. http://www.koryfarm.com/Products_3000.htm I would go a little wider then they did, say around 5 feet instead of the 4 that the Korys are. The length they have is probably about right as you will likely want it on the short side, just big enough to haul your few bales of hay and grain. Im sure a wagon that size is more in line weight wise than a full size hay wagon, they only weigh about 200 pounds but about double that with a wood platform.

You should think about adding brakes to whatever you build. My pioneer has some really simple brakes on it, just a band around a drum like on the old Farmall M and other tractors used. If whatever camper you buy has brakes, all the better. You can hook up a battery to power the brakes on the camper.

On a 4 wheel cart, weather you put the ball hitch on top of the axle or behind it wont matter at all since there is pretty low tongue weight on the fiberglass trailers. Even a regular trailer wouldnt have too heavy of a tongue. On a 2 wheel cart, it might be better to put the ball above the axle so it dont lift too hard on the horses but you will still have the jerking from the horses pulling. As they pull on the cart, since its 2 wheels, it causes a twisting action around the axle which is where the jerking would be felt. Every time the tree goes up or down, even just the cadence and normal bounce of the horses will be transfered through the ball to the trailer. On a 4 wheeled cart you avoid that jerking but will still feel horses when they pull forward (and the back push when going down hill). I guess if you want to be fancy, you could minimize that by building a spring loaded hitch like the DMI farm hitches they put on trucks.

ok lets get something straight YOU ARE RIGHT I AM WRONG.
pheeeeww boy im glad we got past that.
i think i will try to pm you a picture if you dont mind i think i already own something better than the trailer you suggested.ok?

ok i get it pics here

If you google "caravans" you can see sites for gypsy wagon rentals in Ireland. Perhaps pick up something useful.

hello herb and thanks for posting i have seen much of the romani way.
and i am irish though i did not know of them when i began to dream this dream.
meagan and i have joked that if i go traveler i must paint my wagon to match.
i am not sure i am ready for that,but i must admit thay are b e a utiful.
i know a couple who traveld europe in 1 of these just decided to do it 1 day and then rushed in. they made a few mistakes primarily they used a romani wagon and traveled alone with 2 draft ponys.they came to a very steep down hill.etc etc.
i think he is out of the hospital now, and the horses were completly unharmed.
this kinda relates back to an earlier question ARE MODERN HORSES WHIMPY.
keep up the posting herb

wow i have learned so much from here.i havent really trusted computers,but the response has made a believer out of me i can meet and talk to new people and post pictures even.
thankyou so much i still go back and read them from the first post to the current last post and i real apreaciate every one.
some of your ideas have caused me to think new thoughts and sometimes rethink old plans.
As of right now we still are in the planing stages and 1 horse has a wounded eye lots of pus but the swelling is going down and the eye is intact and functional.he is not to happy about the medicine in his eye every 2 hours round the clock but he just barely flinches after several days of this treatment.and he really likes the extra loving time [meg actually took a small catnap on him this morning]

and wonder of wonders thanks to this sight i have found that there is a man already doing this.
[google wagonteamster where is bob]
i think i have a lot to learn from bob.
perhaps i will someday have the priveledge of meeting him.
i will continue to read this page and ask new questions.
i still believe an egg is the way to go because of weight,bobs new smaller wagon still translates to a very heavy per horse load and his belgians are some bigger than my percherons,and now he travels with a spare horse for steep hills.
PLEASE CONTINUE TO ASK QUESTIONS AND OFFER ADVICE HERE.
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM SOME FULLTIMERS.
PLACES I SHOULD AVOID?? OR BE WELCOMED???
PLACES WHERE THERE IS NO GRASS TO GRAZE??
HOW MANY PEOPLE HERE HAVE A SMALL PLACE AT HOME WHERE MY HORSES COULD OVERNIGHT OR REST STOP.
i will be traveling with a small harrow and skid and will trade dragwork, grass seeding log skidding etc for rest stops.

LIFE IS A JOURNEY KNOWLEDGE IS THE GOAL

jim