12V DC Fridge in Outback

[Brian C]

Hello everyone: My wife and I are looking at the Trillium's and are interested
in them except for the 12V DC Fridge. Why do they not offer a 110V? It has been my
experience that a 12V fridge is not very efficient as compared to 110 or propane for that matter. We like the trailer except for this detail. What is everyone's opinion on
this set up.

Thanks.

Brian

[Suz]

First, let me say that I certainly am NOT an expert, but in researching for a replacement of my older unit I have discovered that the 2/3 way are absorption types and then there is a 12V type that is actually more like the one in our homes and have a compressor. According to their website, the new Trills have a "High Efficiency 12 volt Compressor Refrigerator," so I don't think that it's performance can be compared to the absorption type's performance on 12V.

I hope that we do have some with experience with these because I am very interested in first hand knowledge myself.

[Paddy Morris]

Look down to refridgerators and it gives a brief talk on the new dc fridges.
http://www.trilliumrv.com/parts.htm

[Frederick L. Simson]

Look down to refridgerators and it gives a brief talk on the new dc fridges.
http://www.trilliumrv.com/parts.htm

Is this what you were referring to?

...new generation of 12 volt compressor fridges. The new Trilliums and Outbacks have this type of refrigerator. There is relatively low power consumption, and [b]it isn't sensitive to being level. The only additional consideration is to [b]add a second house battery if the use is mainly "wilderness camping".

[Curtis F.]

Brian: These 12 volt fridges are not using the "peltier effect" common in the cooler/heater operations with a cigarette lighter plug. The comperssors really do a super job of cooling.

Have you asked Joe at Trillium if they would put in a 3 way fridge?
My 12 volt fridge can freeze everyting in it solid when the outside temperature is 60 degrees. As the outside temperature rises into the 90's it does get slightly warmer inside, but probably not over 40 degrees. Sodas are still cold to drink.

My only complaint is that the coil is not vented either into the trailer or to outside air. The effect of that is that the trapped air under the counter becomes very hot which limits the effectiveness of the fridge to cool. Next time I have the fridge out, I'm going to figure out how to insulate the exterior wall and vent the undercabinet air space. Probably into the trailer so it can benefit from the a/c. I like not haveing vents on the side of the trailer. Although I could see adding another heater type vent and duct it to the fredge coil with or with out a fan. If I ever get'er done is another story.

Curt

[Brian C]

Thanks to everyone for the explanation regarding these newer 12V
DC powered fridges. I also picked up some more info from the Trillium
site. I will be e-mailing Trillium (Outback) about the heat build up as Curt
pointed out. Once again, thanks.

Brian

[Penny Taylor]

Maybe you could consider a solar panel. It could be very handy, with a 12 v. fridge, and other things. (An inverter for TV/DVD, laptop, charging cellphone, etc)

[Roy Massen]

Brian

I put one of the new 12 volt fridges with the danfrost compressor in my Boler and run it completely off the solar. I did keep the vent to the outside that was there for the propane one that was taken out so the coil heat has a place to go. (In the desert for Burning Man where the dust was really bad I did cover the vent but just opened the lower cabinet doors to get some circulation and it made ice! and kept wonderfully cold as usual)

The maker of my fridge (Tundra) has a 110 vost option that automatically takes over from the 12 volt if it is available) but didn't need it.

It only pulls 3.5 amps when the compressor is running which is not 24 hours a day ( I figure 6) They aer amazingly effecient,

[Steve DeWeese]

I was looking at those refrigerators and started expanding to see what else they have. This could be very good depending on how you use it. I would like to know if a solar panel could run both the air and refrigerator all night.



Conditioner That Runs On 12 Volt DC Power

Tundra Press Release
4/25/2005

POMPANO BEACH, FL – April 22, 2005 - Dometic Corporation is introducing a new patented auxiliary air conditioning system that can be operated on a 12 Volt DC power source without idling the truck’s engine or running an auxiliary power generator unit.

The system consists of a compact, efficient self-contained 7,000 BTU air conditioning unit, packaged with a 2,500 Watt inverter/charger unit and separate dedicated battery bank. A shorepower plug is also included, so that the system can run on an external AC power when hookups are available. The HVAC batteries automatically recharge whenever the main engine is running or shorepower is hooked up. The truck’s starting batteries are automatically isolated from the HVAC system’s batteries.

The low-profile air conditioning unit can be installed under a seat or bunk where space is limited. The system has a self-contained refrigerant loop that is precharged at the factory. It is not necessary to add or adjust the refrigerant at installation. Dometic offers a turnkey package that includes all ducts, wiring, grills and thermostat control.

"The 7,000 BTU system is an economical solution for truckers who have long waits at terminals," said Lou Siegel, senior vice president, marketing and strategic business development for Dometic Environmental Systems. "Using the inverter-battery combination, the system can provide several hours of air conditioner operation before it is necessary to recharge the batteries."

About Dometic Corporation
Dometic Environmental Systems (www.dometicenviro.com), a business unit of Dometic Corporation, is a world leader in air conditioning and refrigeration technology for marine, vehicular and other applications. The company’s products are marketed under the Cruisair, Marine Air Systems, Tundra, Grunert and Sentry brand names, with a heritage dating back over 45 years. Corporate headquarters and operations are in Pompano Beach, Florida, with operations also in Richmond, Virginia. Factory-trained service facilities are located throughout the world. The Dometic Group is wholly owned by EQT, a leading private equity group in Sweden, and has production facilities in 10 countries, its own sales and marketing operations in 35 countries, plus approximately 65 distributors globally.

Press Contacts:
Jim Rhodes
Rhodes Communications
+1-757-451-0602
jrhodes@rhodescomm.com

Louis Siegel
Dometic Environmental Corporation
+1-804-746-1313

[Penny Taylor]

It sounds very interesting, but I doubt if you would have enough roof for the solar panels that you would need for the air conditioner, or would want to carry the extra weight of the battery bank.
There are some folks out there, that know a lot more about that, and about the advances have been made in solar panels, size per number of watts.
Let's see, 2500 watts for the air conditioner, would be about two coffee makers, and a toaster all going at once. That would run a battery down, in a hurry, unless you had a big array of panels !
The fridge should be pretty easy, it won't use many watts.

[KamperBob]

Hi, Roy. What model Tundra fridge did you get? I'm researching them to replace the Dometic RM2201 in our egg. The TJ22 (2.2cf) looks like an almost perfect replacement in terms of the opening size. TIA

-KB

I put one of the new 12 volt fridges with the danfrost compressor in my Boler and run it completely off the solar. I did keep the vent to the outside that was there for the propane one that was taken out so the coil heat has a place to go. (In the desert for Burning Man where the dust was really bad I did cover the vent but just opened the lower cabinet doors to get some circulation and it made ice! and kept wonderfully cold as usual)

The maker of my fridge (Tundra) has a 110 vost option that automatically takes over from the 12 volt if it is available) but didn't need it.

It only pulls 3.5 amps when the compressor is running which is not 24 hours a day ( I figure 6) They aer amazingly effecient,

[Chester Taje]

I have ordered a new Trill.I also had concerns about the fridge.I was assured that it is very well made and efficient.I am going with 2-6volt batteries and a solar panel.

[Brian B-P]

I believe that this "12V" air conditioner is really just a normal 120VAC unit plus and inverter to make AC power from DC. Whatever the voltage, the power requirement is similar: way too much. The intended application is big rigs which can carry hundreds of pounds of extra battery, and justify it by not idling a massive truck engine for several hours; I really don't see it as workable for a small RV ("small" being less than bus-sized).

A 7000 BTU/hour A/C is the size of a large unit you would put in a window in your house, and supply with a dedicated 15 amp circuit... that's consistent with the need for a 2500 watt inverter. To run that from a 12V battery, you would need a couple hundred amps, which would flatten my Boler's battery in about 10 minutes. Even a pair of the popular "golf cart" batteries would be good for less than one hour of A/C run time. To make that up in a day of sunshine, you would need maybe 30 amps of panel capacity per hour of run time (e.g. need to run four hours total over the night means 120 amps of peak panel output). Panels are normally sold by power (not current) rating, with about 15V assumed, so 120 amps would be 1800 watts of panel, or sixty of my panels.

Dometic has a selection guide for these systems which includes recommended battery capacity; they come up with numbers which might look more reasonable than mine, but we're in the right ballpark - too big.

The refrigerator (such as the one in the Outback) benefits from being designed for 12VDC (no inverter needed, so no inverter inefficiency), and having a much smaller power requirement than an air conditioner.

[KamperBob]

Chester, did Trillium share the make and model of the DC fridge they put in the Outback?

I have ordered a new Trill.I also had concerns about the fridge.I was assured that it is very well made and efficient.I am going with 2-6volt batteries and a solar panel.

[Chester Taje]

Yes but i forgot name.They said it was made in Europe and is very popular over there.I beleive Joe said its from one of the Scandinavian countries.

[KamperBob]

The brands I know so far are Tundra, Norcold and Nova Kool. When are you expecting delivery BTW?

-KB

Yes but i forgot name.They said it was made in Europe and is very popular over there.I beleive Joe said its from one of the Scandinavian countries.

[Chester Taje]

When i ordered it he said he was 3 months behind,so i would expect mid August.

[Brian B-P]

Tundra is a brand from Dometic, the Swedish company which is dominant in the absorption-type RV refrigeration market, as well as all sorts of other RV equipment. The Tundra refrigerators based on a Danfoss compressor (models starting with "T") are marketed by them for use in trucks, while the aborption-cycle line (models starting with "RM") as found in their RV product selection.

Waeco, which also uses Danfoss compressors and has been discussed in this forum before, is now owned by Dometic as well.

Perhaps the Outback 'fridge is a Tundra?

[Curtis F.]

My 2005 Trillium Outback has a NovaKool 2.4 cu ft fridge. NovaKool fridge.

The installation instrucitons for the fridge say "All single door Nova Koos require 60 square inches of total ventilation area." It is recommended that the vents are located a the bottom (30 sq inches) and at the top (30 sq inches).

As installed by Trillium, there is NO ventilation.

Curt

[Suz]

Egg Camper uses a Norcold 12V DC0040, I believe.