13' Escape, No Longer Making?

[Darrell O]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

What I believe to know... is YES Escape will build a 13 foot trailer if that's what a customer wants. They don't advertise it.. and that probably due to the competition. There's Scamp and Casita and Outback and Trillum RV that are ALL building 13 foot trailers. What Escape has found is when people compare the 13 footer to the 15 footer there is an OMG moment. Who would ever think two feet could make so much difference? But, if you really want a 13 foot Escape, they will pull an "open" slot for a 15' trailer and build a 13 foot trailer to customer specs. Just expect to put more of a deposit down... it's not their target audience. Contact Escape Trailer Industries for a confirmation.

Anybody got a penny (Canadian) for these thoughts?:

In trailer manufacturing I see that many of the costs are fixed, e.g. appliance, windows, wheels, etc. Additional costs for of a couple or three feet more fiberglass and frame tubing is marginal. Escape has probably discovered the 15' requires little more investment in materials and labor than what's required to produce a 13'.

There a greater supply of existing 13' trailers on the used market to compete with new 13' Escapes.

Escape would see a greater demand for the 13' model if the next Escape size in the range was 17'. People may still perceive the "cute factor" of short trailers in the 15' model.

The extra couple of feet might not make a big difference for portability and stowability for most campers in most cases. However, in our experience there have been many situations and campsites where any trailer longer than 13' (30' overall with TV) just wouldn't have worked out.

[BCDave]

Having owned a 15 footer (stickie) as my first trailer, then having (briefly) a 13 Boler, followed by a Boler 17 and now a Bigfoot 21, I gotta say that for my wife & I, bigger is ALWAYS better - no exceptions! (he says, casting covetous eyes at a Bigfoot 25!)

My son has a Surfside 14, as does a buddy who simply cannot fit into a Boler 13 (he borrowed mine a couple of times when I had it - but he is 6 foot 4 inches tall! However, that DID get him out of a tent and into his Surfside) The difference that an extra foot makes is unbelievable, and then, when you see the incredible job Tammy & Reace do with a 15 footer which feels more like a 17 inside.......

People are speculating about what will happen as fuel prices rise even more. My prediction: It will be the 13 footers that will lose value faster that the larger ones.

If fuel economy is overwhelmingly critical to a decision, then a substantial price rise will simply result in a decision NOT to go camping at all! (Blasphemy! )

I do not think the guys with the 40 foot Moho's with umpteen dozen slides, all the gizmos and a luxo car on a trailer behind are gonna be bothered by fuel price - if you can lay down a million bux for a moho, the cost of gas (diesel fuel) is not even a consideration!

My guess - you can quote me and laugh at me a year from now if I blow it - but:

FGRV owners are not the typical campers. There are a zillion different reasons for choosing a FGRV.

Economy is one reason. If it becomes uneconomical, the decision may be revisited, length and frequency of trips may be cut back.

For spouse & I, we have never in our lives "gone camping" (OK -once about 30 years ago, with a truck-mounted camper - we went to a Nat'l park for a weekend. We arrived on Fri eve, and by Saturday early afternoon, we said - "this is nutz, I hate this", and we went home!) When we go to the NOG in April, it will be our first "camping trip" - it may well be our last! We use ours to bring a convenient bedroom along for attending events. Fuel costs would have to prevent our attendance at the events at all before it would impact our usage.

Others are at the opposite end of the scale - they travel a lot of miles to go boondocking. For some, this is such an important component of their lives that they may downsize but never consider missing a chance. This group will be the core of the continued use of the 13 footers.

Some use the trailers for family vacations - my prediction: Vacations will be shortened or a different vacation mode will be used. Fewer trips will be taken.

My prediction is that people will continue to buy what they are comfortable with - in terms of how nice it feels inside, how nice it feels to tow and the level of financial comfort in terms of purchase price and cost of usage. I suspect that the financial "comfort" will be more of a factor at the smaller end of the market than at the "million dollars each" end, and if fuel prices go WAY up - there will be a lot more campsites available!

We'll see what happens.......

[Raz]

"2011, 13' Escape Travel Trailer, $18,682.00

Includes standard features as well as the followign options;

3-burner stove,
Additional window over sink,
LED Interior Light Package,
Exterior Storage Box,
95W Solar Panel with Charger,
Stereo, shelves in wardrobe,
Stove cover,
12V outlet.

For more information please contact Escape Trailer Industries."



An Escape 13 , a Casita 17, or two bottom end Scamp 13's all seem to cost the same. Raz

[Cathy P.]

The "cost" thing is complicated between the different manufacturers and within the manufacturer's different sizes. I like "smaller" and can live efficiently in a small space. I like the "cuteness" factor involved with the 13' or maybe just the efficiency. Liking the efficiency would make my opinion less superficial though.

I also like and have been heavily supporting "Made In America". Yeah, I know the down side of that too well.

[melissab]

The entry price for a Scamp 13 is $8495 even the Scamp 13 Deluxe (all wood interior) with bath is $13,695 so way less than this Escape 13 at $18,682. The Scamp 16 Standard is $11,295 and Deluxe is $17,195. Scamp is still the least costly FG trailer out there if all one is concerned about is keeping the purchase price down.

[GeorgeR]

Originally Posted by Carol H

:Nope Dorthy this isn't Kansas

to see what I mean!

A few years ago we spent a few days in the Princess Luisa Inlet anchored at the Chatterbox Falls. This was one of the most beautiful places I have seen. The movie about BC is great but it missed that place.
George.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by melissab

The entry price for a Scamp 13 is $8495 even the Scamp 13 Deluxe (all wood interior) with bath is $13,695 so way less than this Escape 13 at $18,682.

Yup but the Escape is to many a nicer trailer and it doesn't have rivets....

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by GeorgeR

A few years ago we spent a few days in the Princess Luisa Inlet anchored at the Chatterbox Falls. This was one of the most beautiful places I have seen. The movie about BC is great but it missed that place.
George.

The problem is George there are just way to many beautiful spots to highlight in a short film

[Brian Van Snell]

When I was comparing the Scamp 13 deluxe with the Escape 13 I did a feature-by-feature comparison, and found the following differences:
1. Scamp 13 had a 20 amp converter, Escape 13 had a 45 amp converter
2. Scamp 13 had an upholstered interior, Escape 13 had vinyl covered interior
3. Scamp 13 had curtains, Escape 13 had draw down pleated shades
4. Scamp 13 had plastic front window, Escape 13 had glass front window
5. Scamp 13 charges $300 for extra lights and outlets, Escape 13 included these
6. Scamp 13 had brown carpet, Escape 13 had vinyl flooring
7. Scamp 13 charges $385 extra for furnace, Escape 13 includes
8. Scamp 13 had no range hood, Escape 13 had range hood
9. Scamp 13 had retractable screen door as option, Escape 13 includes
10. Scamp 13 had front rock shield option, Escape 13 includes
11. Scamp 13 charges $300 for demand water, Escape 13 includes
12. Scamp 13 charges $1000 extra for electric brakes, Escape 13 includes
13. Scamp 13 charges $430 extra for awning, Escape 13 includes

At the time I made the comparison (August 2009) the total comparable cost delivered to our location was within $100 of being the same.

With our Escape 13 we were able to choose the following additional options:
1. Exterior 110 volt outlet
2. Exterior shower package and hot water heater
3. Extra insulation and thermal windows
4. Factory tinted windows
5. 12 volt outlet
6. Maxx fan
7. Portable toilet with cabinet
8. Stainless steel sink and faucet
9. Custom arborite counter and table top -- we chose the laminate
10. Custom cushion covers -- we chose the fabric
11. Custom exterior graphics

After-sales service from Escape has been outstanding.

Brian

Originally Posted by melissab

The entry price for a Scamp 13 is $8495 even the Scamp 13 Deluxe (all wood interior) with bath is $13,695 so way less than this Escape 13 at $18,682. The Scamp 16 Standard is $11,295 and Deluxe is $17,195. Scamp is still the least costly FG trailer out there if all one is concerned about is keeping the purchase price down.

[Cathy P.]

Actually, Scamps have had a price increase. The 13' standard is $8695, deluxe $14095, etc. One thing I have noticed is you need to compare standard and optional equipment. My biggest complaint has always been those that have an extra charge for a spare tire and wheel and I see Scamp includes that as a standard feature as does Escape, I believe. I am not sure about all the others but I know one I looked at didn't. Seriously, "No I am the luckiest person in the world and would never need something like that." Do they assume you have other tires and wheels at home that will fit? Basically, you would need to sit down and either write down or have a copy of the brochure information and match one for one. (I am frugal and rather obsessive about getting the most for my money). I have not seen the prices on the Casita. The prices really climb when you start adding options. That solar panel deal on the Escape is a $1,050.00 option. So, take care when comparing.

Edit: Well, that's what I get for leaving the computer while making a post because I did see Brian's post. He has explained it completely! Thank you Brian. Good post.

[melissab]

Right. I was just pointing out there are less expensive 13 footers. Not all are in the 18K price range. Seems all the ones w/o rivets are though, Escape, Trillium and Outback.

Originally Posted by Carol H

Yup but the Escape is to many a nicer trailer and it doesn't have rivets....

[Raz]

Not too many years ago you could buy are car without power this and alloy that. Today what was optional is now standard. When you ask why, you are told "that's what every one wants". Many, myself included, end up buying a car that has more on it than they want. You want a steering wheel you get leather seats. Honda was the first manufacturer I noticed with this "packaging" or tiered approach to marketing.

Based on Brians list it appears Scamp is still following the old ala carte model. The VW bug of fiberglass campers if you will. A car is a necessity in today's society, a trailer is not. I think maybe Scamp has the right idea considering the current economic reality. Time will tell. Raz

[melissab]

Brian, when did you get the pricing for the Scamp options? Here is their newest pricing sheet I just got in the mail:

Scamp 13 Standard: $8695
Scamp 13 Option Pkg: $9595 and includes Silverware Drawer, Front or Rear Cabinets, 1.9 cu ft 3-way Fridge, Battery Pack, Gravel Shield, Screen Door, City water and small window over Stove Top.

Additional Options:

Shower pkg $1350 (shower, 26 Gal Grey Tank, City Water, Water Heater)

City Water $40
Sani Potti $93
3 Speed Roof Fan $175
Cable TV Hookup $45
Roof Mount A/C $779
Power Range Hood $105
Furnace 16,000 BTU with Thermostat $395
Extra Interior 12 volt lights $30
ELECTRIC BRAKES $275
8 Foot Awning $455
Front/Rear Cabinets $145
Side Cabinets $78
Exterior Outles $40
Stove Cover $45
Grey Water Tank $135

Scamp now offers vinyl flooring for $75 and comes with a 30 amp power converter. Spare tire and wheel cover is also included.

We specced one out that was a Scamp 13 Standard with the Option pkg plus these add'l options: Side cabinets, Roof A/C, Furnace, Electric Brakes, 3 speed fan, filled propane tank ($17), crank out windows (no extra charge), 26 Gal Grey Tank, Vinyl Floor, cable hookup, stove cover, outside outlet and 3 extra 12 volt lights ($90 total). They give a 10% discount on options (dont know why they dont just lower the price sheet by 10$) so the grand total is $11,409. Scamp doesnt have enough options to bring the total to within $100 of the Escape 13 that is for sale now at over $18,000 even if you ordered the wood interior and full bath. Maybe Scamp has lowered their option cost since the last time you talked with them? But $1000 for electric brakes, ouch! Glad they lowered that price. When you say "on demand" water do you mean city water? That option is now $40 for Scamp.

The Escape does have better options and better quality but if one is looking for affordability the Scamp nicely optioned is much less expensive.

I do adore your Little LadyBug!

Melissa

[Brian Van Snell]

Melissa:

The quotation from Scamp was dated August 3, 2009. Our order to Escape was dated August 4, 2009. Prices are before the additional options we selected from Escape. Taxes are not included (would be added to both). No import duty. Scamp prices include options to make it equivalent to Escape.

At that time Scamp 13 ft. with options was US$9,195
Deluxe package options were (wood etc) 3,415
Total US$12,610
Total (1C$=0.92US$) C$13,707
RIV Fee (required to import US trailer) 209
Pickup Cost (estimate) 600
Total C$14,516

List price for Escape 13 C$14,500

"On demand" water means that there is an electric water pump so that when you are boon docking when you turn on the tap you get water from the fresh water tank when you demand it. This is standard on the Escape, an option on the Scamp.

Brian

[melissab]

Ok, that makes sense now. That is way less than the $18,682 Escape is advertising a 2011 Escape 13 for now. I too would have chosen the Escape 13 given those figures. I see the Escape 15 is listed at 18,600 so I'm curios what they will build a 13 for now? IIRC there was about a $2000 price difference between the 13 and 15. Based on that guess I'd say a new 13 is probably around $16500 or so. Hmmmmm, wonder how many Escape 13's were built before they quit offering them on a regular basis?

What is the bed size in your 13?

Thanks for the clarification.

Melissa

[Brian Van Snell]

Melissa:

The bed sizes are:
Front: 6'-4" by 26"
Back: 6"-4" by 48"

My wife and I each have our own bed, to maximize comfort. We convert the back bed to a table for meals. With practice this takes only a few minutes.

The price of the 13' for sale is not a standard 13' model. It has options that would make the price you see. For example, the solar panel adds about $1000 to the price. My observation is that most Escape owners select options to add to the comfort and convenience, just as we did. Over time many of the former options have become Escape standards. For example, a Maxx fan is now a standard feature although it was an option when we bought ours. Prospective buyers wanting to consider trailers from different manufacturers need to make an "apples-to-apples" comparison -- compare similarly equipped trailers just as I did.

I don't know what the current price is for an Escape 13 -- you will need to ask Escape Trailer. In order to compare with another manufacturer you will also need to find out what the standard features are!

Brian

[Brian Van Snell]

Cathy:

I should have mentioned I started looking at the Casita 13 also but discovered that the headroom was not adequate for me -- I am (or was) 6'-3". The Casita was only 5'-10". The Escape 13's headroom is 6'-2" which I can manage okay.

Brian

Originally Posted by Cathy P.

I have not seen the prices on the Casita.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Snell

Melissa:

The quotation from Scamp was dated August 3, 2009. Our order to Escape was dated August 4, 2009. Prices are before the additional options we selected from Escape. Taxes are not included (would be added to both). No import duty. Scamp prices include options to make it equivalent to Escape.

At that time Scamp 13 ft. with options was US$9,195
Deluxe package options were (wood etc) 3,415
Total US$12,610
Total (1C$=0.92US$) C$13,707
RIV Fee (required to import US trailer) 209
Pickup Cost (estimate) 600
Total C$14,516

List price for Escape 13 C$14,500

"On demand" water means that there is an electric water pump so that when you are boon docking when you turn on the tap you get water from the fresh water tank when you demand it. This is standard on the Escape, an option on the Scamp.

Brian

Brian, for you buying an Escape was the obvious choice. The fact that it's made in B.C., you percieve it to be the better trailer, and you live in "the neighbor hood" makes it the obvious choice. But removing your personal circumstance reveals that at the factory the Escape was $2000 more costly. At that time the exchange rate was very favorable to U.S. buyers, thus making the Escape more competitive. Today the dollars are at par and as we all know gas prices are continually going up. For some one like Melissa living in Florida, or even Cathy living in Kansas the pick up costs, and the at par exchange rate make the Escape 13 even more expensive. Since the price of the Escape 15 is not much more, it makes the 13 less competitive. Raz

[Cathy P.]

Brian: Thank you for all the info. As you can see, we are thinking along similar lines when making comparisons. Funny though you say "apples to apples" and I insist that it seems I am comparing "apples to oranges" but my thought was that was the case because of the options/standards and even materials used on the inside, etc. I know that once the ball gets rolling with a purchase unless one has a solid plan on what they "need" or "want", those options start looking pretty good that you thought you would just forgo because of expense and the total grows! When you shop, you do really need a plan and to be able to stick to it.

I knew that the Casita 13' had only the 5'10" headroom and I believe that Scamp just increased theirs a few years ago but I can't remember what change they made. I am guessing some of the older units on the market may be "short".

Thank you for the info you have provided and I am sure many will benefit from it. You just can't get too much information when shopping and comparing and a consumer's opinion is priceless!

[Donna D.]

I realize people comparison shop... and should. But it still boils down to an individual's personal preference and budget. You could have this exact same discussion about tug preferences. If all things were equal for towing ability there are those that would prefer a Cadillac Escalade over a Kia (anything).