16' vs 13'/ bath or no

[sugermc]

Looking for general opinions, going back and forth in my head with no answer.
I have re-worked on 13' Scamp, working on a 2nd one. Mostly to change things that I found out about the first! It's the layout, I just have a tough time climping over the hubby, trying not to step on the DOG in the middle of night to use a rest room.
My friends who have a 13' think for long travel trips a 16' with a bath would work better for these long 2 month+ trips. I have been thinking, maybe I should consider this also.
What do you folks think?

I think that most of the campsites we have visited so far have had facilities, I do want to go close to the Canadian Border to the Glacier N.P. and toward Salt Lake City Utah in 2014. I wonder what type of camp sites are in that area?
We basicslly cook completely outside, stay outside, even in wet and damp conditions. Storage and sleeping set ups at present seem the big dicussions with the hubby.
We have not been on a really long trip, 5 weeks was the longest. Does the added length of trailer make long trips comfy?
When I look at 16', and no bath, I am not really seeing that much more storage space. How much do folks eat a meal inside your camper?
Any opinions, tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated Thanks Suger D McAllen

P.S. This 2nd 13' layout looks like I have solved the bed climbing over problem

[Byron Kinnaman]

My wife and I have traveled extensively without an on board toilet. We stay mostly in National Parks and National Forests. Campgrounds have facilities. Some with and some without showers. When no showers are available a product call "Bath Fresh" does the trick.

[Donna D.]

Oh my, you're going to get as many opinions are there are colors... I can only give my own.

Now that I've owned a trailer with a flush toilet, I wouldn't be satified with anything else. I use campground shower facilities, because I don't want that moisture in my trailer. But without a doubt, you can never miss what you've never had. I've "had" a flushy, I would miss it

I can't say anything about the differences in storage space between a 13' and 16', since I've only owned a 16'. But, those three feet have to go somewhere! Maybe a larger kitchen area and more cupboards or closet (width).

[deryk]

I came very close to buying a scamp 13 deluxe... beautifal trailer, but just not laid out right for me. I know myself all too well and the bed would stay down and I likethe side dinette, I actually do sit at it and have eaten a few meals there.... usually am outside but have been camping with temps in the 20's, rain, 95' at night etc.. sometimes I dont want to rough it that much lol. I also wouldnt have considered a trailer without a shower and preferably a porta pottie because I boondock places that dont have near by facilities...or in the middle of the night if my stomach starts gurgling dont want to do the mad ruh to find a bathroom.

Its all in how you plan on useing it. If your staying at KOA's and you pick spots near restroms and your ok with it awesome... but if I stop at a rest stop to nap and need to go I dont want to have to run into the building. But thats just me. Think about how you will use the trailer and make your decision.

[Raz]

We like a permanent bed so in a 13' camper that leaves a front dinette or a front bath. Given that choice, the front dinette works best for us (2+ dog). Raz

[sugermc]

Yes All these points Adrian and myself have chatted about. The point of going to a camp area with no facilities, that keeps coming back to us, we always seem to look for those remote places.

I will be attending the Land between the lakes get-together and hope to have this 2nd Scamp up and running. Maybe a run-thru with this would help decide for 2014 big trip out west. But I have been looking at 16' for sale and see some good buys, ones with out a bath though

[Bob Miller]

For those wanting to make the "Loo" choice, one point to keep in mind, is that it's always easy to find a place to empty a portapotty tank, and you don't have to break camp to do so. When you have a flush toilet, the entire trailer has to find a dump station or you have to deal with a transfer tank on wheels that takes up more space in the trailer/TV. Yes, a flush loo is nice when using it, but a Porta Potty can win when it's time to empty. A cassette toilet is a happy medium, but they usually have to be built in at the initial design stage.

[honda03842]

Sugarmc, We travel for long stretches up to 315 days a year. Most of the time we eat meals at the trailer they are inside, we eat every breakfast in the trailer. Most lunches we're out and about. I would say 1/2 to 2/3rds of our meals are in the trailer.

We have a Scamp 16 and our son has a Scamp 13. We have more storage space, both inside and out. Since we're gone for so long we have added ample storage and very organized storage.

We do have a side bath. We like it for evenings, particularly since we're getting older. We never use the shower, prefer campground showers for Donna's reasons.

Secondarily I don't think there's a lot of difference towing a 13 versus a 16. The frontal area, most important at speed, are virtually identical and the weight difference might be 700 lbs. As well you virtually always find 16s with their own brakes and not always so with 13s.

[Briantb]

We have a 13 ft Scamp with front washroom and a Casita 17 Deluxe. Would not be without toilet.. Jury still out on shower. The extra space in the 17 makes it easier having space for both the bed down and a small dinette if you eat inside.
While not spending as much time as Norm, we were coast to coast to coast last year in the Scamp without issue. It comes down to your camping style and what you're used to.

Having said wouldn't do without the toilet we occasionally take our teardrop trailer out. The 45 mpg towing with a VW TDI makes up somewhat for the lack of facilities!

[Perry J]

I'm lazy and hate to make up a bed every night.
I miss my 16' SD Scamp.
The bed was always made up and I still had the side dinette.
I agree with Norm and Ginny. There is very little or no difference between towing the 16 or 13 Scamp.
We went on a 4000 trip up through the Tetons and Yellowstone several years ago and I averaged 22 MPG with my 16' Scamp which was the same as towing a 13.

[RogerDat]

I think if you want a toilet be it built in or porta potti a 16 is a better bet. There is just a little bit more room to stow and to go. Not to say you can't do that in a 13 ft. People stow a porta potti under the front couch. Should not be a big issue to slide it out when going to bed to have available in the middle of the night. Does not help you get over spouse or around dog but no matter where your bathroom is your going to have that problem... unless dog sleeps at foot of your bed.

I'm with the second dinette folks for a long trip, not all that uncommon to take out front couch and replaced with table and seating in a 13. It's just nice to have someplace to eat or lay out stuff while leaving the bed made.

Just to throw something else into your thinking stew, windows. Both bath closet and front storage closets will replace some windows. Might be nice in a crowded campground, less so in a scenic location or one with no power for AC where you want the extra breeze.

Norm posted some nice pictures awhile back of storage bins he mounted under the trailer. A 16 has more room under it than a 13.

[Evergreengirl]

I wouldn't be without a toilet. It was always the one "must have" on my list when shopping for a trailer. Who wants to get up and troop to the facilities in the middle of the night? We've never had a problem finding a place to dump our tanks and remember, it doesn't have to be done every day. Using the campground facilities for most of the time will lessen the frequency of having to dump your holding tanks. And many a time our toilet has been a nice thing to have when we've pulled over for a lunch or rest stop. On extended trips I think it's a great amenity to have.

I can see the argument for permanently made up beds, but I think I'd much rather have a dinette that converts to a bed. A permanent bed sits there all the time you're not actually sleeping in it just taking up space or becoming a place to pile stuff on. In a 13' trailer I'd opt for a convertible dinette and a bath myself. In a 16' I'd definitely want the toilet/bath.

I agree with what Norm wrote. On extended trips (well, actually on all our trips) we eat inside a lot - convenient, easy, comfortable, no bugs. We're out and about during the day but eat breakfast and dinner in the trailer most of the time. On longer trips you will appreciate the extra storage of a 16 footer I think.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Oh my, you're going to get as many opinions are there are colors... I can only give my own.

Now that I've owned a trailer with a flush toilet, I wouldn't be satified with anything else. I use campground shower facilities, because I don't want that moisture in my trailer. But without a doubt, you can never miss what you've never had. I've "had" a flushy, I would miss it

I can't say anything about the differences in storage space between a 13' and 16', since I've only owned a 16'. But, those three feet have to go somewhere! Maybe a larger kitchen area and more cupboards or closet (width).

Without a doubt if you never had your flushy you wouldn't miss it.

[Mike Magee]

I camp alone and I'm not at all sure I could put up with a 13, so I am amazed with couples who do so. But some couples do, and are happy! Everyone's different.

You already have the 13 (two 13s, wow) so I'd say, why not just finish one up for yourselves and use it for a trip or two. Then decide if you're happy or if you desire more space. The 13 will still bring a good amount on resale toward purchase of a 16. As mentioned, a 16 tows with nearly the same ease as a 13 due to the similar wind resistance.

How did you solve the bed climb-over problem? One person on the front couch? Or did you come up with a way to extend the bed into the aisle?

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Without a doubt if you never had your flushy you wouldn't miss it.

Especially if you never had to pee in the middle of the night.

Not sure why there is this lobby group for porta pottis or nothing at all. Yes, you can camp without a toilet and black tank, but it is a lot more convenient to have a toilet.

Suggest you remove the words "without a doubt" from your post. I've done without, and I prefer not to.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Especially if you never had to pee in the middle of the night.

Not sure why there is this lobby group for porta pottis or nothing at all. Yes, you can camp without a toilet and black tank, but it is a lot more convenient to have a toilet.

Suggest you remove the words "without a doubt" from your post. I've done without, and I prefer not to.

I can think of a lot of reasons to NOT have an on board potty, and no really good reasons to have one. Convenient is a relative term. Is it more convenient to repair stinky leaks, empty stinky black water tanks and clean the hose, remember to the chemicals in to keep the odder down, (it's still there just not as strong), can't use it when you run out water, requires an electric water pump which has to be maintained/replaced, shortens the time between battery recharges. Shall I go on?

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Shall I go on?

Please do.

[honda03842]

Climb over.

I agree each owner must develop their style, none are wrong if they meet your needs.

We resolve climb over by having the more frequent user sleep on the ourside. Our rule is no dogs for long distance travel solves that problem. As well, this outside sleeper is happy to move so the inside sleeper can get out on the actual rare occasion.

We put our bed up every morning, a really easy task for the outside sleeper. Our 'half table' really opens the trailer for daytime use and makes sitting easier.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

I can think of a lot of reasons to NOT have an on board potty, and no really good reasons to have one.

Ah, there's the source of the problem: Byron, you appear to be unaware of the physical reality for many people which can require frequent or short-notice access to a toilet, or for any reason have some difficulty with public toilets. Please don't assume that everyone is as fortunate as you appear to be.

Every feature of a trailer adds some benefit and takes some maintenance. Getting the right balance requires a series of informed choices, which will vary between individual owners.

Can we stay with description of options, and explanation of the features (including required maintenance) of each? With opinions of course, but without judgement of other's preferences. That would assist the original poster's decision, rather than trying to make it for her.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Ah, there's the source of the problem: Byron, you appear to be unaware of the physical reality for many people which can require frequent or short-notice access to a toilet, or for any reason have some difficulty with public toilets. Please don't assume that everyone is as fortunate as you appear to be.

Every feature of a trailer adds some benefit and takes some maintenance. Getting the right balance requires a series of informed choices, which will vary between individual owners.

Can we stay with description of options, and explanation of the features (including required maintenance) of each? With opinions of course, but without judgement of other's preferences. That would assist the original poster's decision, rather than trying to make it for her.

Brian,
I don't believe I mentioned anybody but me. I'm certainly NOT making judgement on others preferences, however I feel the opposite has been done a few times.
I am simply pointing out, in my opinion, several reasons why I don't want an on-board toilet.
Of course physical disabilities do come into consideration, but in this case the face the OP questioned the need would seem to negate that consideration.

Furthermore I believe that a person needs to have full information before making a decision. All the maintenance needs are part of the equation. It appears that there are some that would only like their views heard. If I'm taken that way, I surely don't mean to imply that. What a horrible world it would be if everybody agreed and wanted exactly the same thing.