$25,000 Question!!!

[rdickens]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Another option worth looking at is Lil Snoozy, a newer design made in SC in the same size/weight class. It has a true queen: 60"x80". Drawback is that it is all-electric.

Dean,

Like Jon, I have been a little intrigued by the "Lil' Snoozy".
Lil Snoozy trailer
www.lilsnoozy.com


I personally would not be fond of dealing with my own stinky-slinky hose and "blackwater"; much less waiting in a long line (10 Class A motor homes ahead of us as we pulled out of Oshkosh last year) to use a dump station where previous rig owners might have carelessly handled their own blackwater dumping. (Watch the dump station segment of the Robin Williams movie "RV").

The Lil' Snoozy offers a Thedford Cassette toilette option. I don't know how it works out in actual camping, but it does seem like an interesting way to have built-in facilities and avoid stinky-slinky hoses and dump stations. (Watch the video on the Lil' Snoozy website.)

Our "tow weight constraint" pretty much ruled out a 16 foot trailer that might have had sufficient room for a bathroom and still had sleeping room for 4 or 5. Since our past experience was with pop-up trailers and tent camping, we've never had an actual bathroom (although it was on our "want list") and I guess we haven't seemed to suffer too much because we didn't try to put one into a 13 foot trailer. That said, there are many people (that I really respect) who wouldn't be without a dedicated room in their trailers for bathroom facilities. Choices and trade-offs .....

Like bed sizes and tow vehicles, bathroom facilities are another one
of those "hot button" issues where there are lots of opinions from
some fairly smart people.

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...oom-67198.html

BTW - At LBL, Dennis will again be doing a talk about OBF (onboard facilities) where I think they will be discussing the differences and usages of porta-potties versus built-in bathroom facilities.
I didn't think that I would probably learn anything at that talk last year, but I was mistaken!

I too wish the Lil' Snoozy had propane refrigerator and stove facilities. Maybe they would build one like that on request? I hope to actually see a Lil' Snoozy at a rally or campground sometime soon.

Ray

Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi Bob M, Ellpea, Bob H, Jon, Ray, and All,

Bob M, OK, my DW continues to find ample opportunities to get a laugh, at my expense, over my reading posts from this forum to her. I am obviously way too dense. It took my DW to explain Leonard and Penny's wedding invitation to me!!! LOL! Ellpea, it took your post for me to figure there was humor in Bob's post. Other than movies, I watch very little TV. I am pleased that Leonard and Penny approve of the Big Foot 17.5. Unfortunately, I can't make their wedding next Monday night. I will be foregoing their wedding and Monday Night Football in order to watch Dancing with the Stars with my lovely DW. After 32 years of marriage, I have my priorities straight.

Bob H, wish you the best with your renovations of your two Scamps. My DW's extended family lives in Indy, IN. Perhaps my DW and I could bop over some time for a peek at the Scamps!

Jon, I definitely agree that bed size (more so width is an important issue to consider). Some of the twin bed models are interesting, but we really want one bed for us. I think 54" to 60" in width would be best, but for our first rig, we might consider something narrower. I am currently in our king-sized bed. My DW is sleeping as I type and our Maltese, Gibbs, is taking up about 1/3 of the bed somehow! He will travel with us some, so that will factor into our plan. I can't believe I just typed that last sentence. Our Jack Russell, Ellie, will stay home with my mom. She has a little too much energy for long road trips (Ellie, not my mom! . In any case, bed size is an important issue.

Ray, I too, really like the look and floor plan of the Lil' Snoozy. Nice bed. Nice love seat sofa! Cool design shape. However, I really think I want to be able to use propane. I am not opposed to considering the Thedford toilet. In fact, it might even have some pluses over the standard set up. During my first several months of RV research, we thought we would want a dry bath; however, I am so enamored with egg campers, my DW and I are more than willing to consider a wet bath. The older I get, the more I get up through the night to use the facilities. Laura has never really camped much. She likes to hike, but has not camped that much. So, a wet bath is a requirement. I hope we can get over to the LBL Rally as early as possible on Saturday. We will get to see our 1st egg campers!!!

Thanks,

Dean

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by DeanCHS1980

Hi Bob,

LOL. My DW and I were on the Big Foot website earlier today looking at 17 foot floorplans. Yup, I think this would meet our critical criteria. Plus, I love their 4-season capabilities.

The newer ones are definitely pricey, but they seem like quality units.

Thanks!

Dean

It will also be the heaviest of the 17' range fiberglass trailers. Something to consider when looking for a tow vehicle - in particular its tongue weight carrying capacity as they are heavy on the tongue as well - anywhere from 350 to 450lbs on the tongue.

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi Carol,

Good point. Given that my current cars are too puny to tow, particularly 16' to 17' TTs, I will probably buy the TT first, then get a tug with a margin of comfort to tow the camper. If we ended up with a Big Foot, we would shop accordingly for a tug. Currently, most FG manufacturers are on the table. The advantage of window shopping and kicking tires and learning from folks like you!!!

Thx,

Dean

[rdickens]

Dean,

Tow vehicles are another one of those "hot button" issues where lots of
good folks have fairly different opinions, brand loyalties, etc.

High on anyone's list should probably be reliability. A powerful tug that
breaks down on the road or is always in the shop isn't much good to
anybody.

Your earlier idea of a Ford F150 2.7L Eco-boost Crewcab doesn't seem
all that bad.

My old "work car" was a Honda Fit and it was a great little commuter.
Once I retired, we traded the FIT for a 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L Ecoboost FWD. Highway mileage with the Escape is usually 32-34 mpg and towing our Scamp13 at 60 mph is usually around 23 mpg (sometimes lower; sometimes as much as 25 mpg).

Most folks believe that it is torque that moves an RV. Diesel engines and
turbocharged engines shine in the high-torque@low-rpm department.
(There is a reason that most 18-wheelers are diesels .... )

To understand the difference between horsepower and torque for various
tow vehicles, you might find parts of this thread to be an interesting read?
Towing a 16' Scamp with small diesel

Good luck with your tug search as well as your RV search ....

Ray

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by DeanCHS1980

Hi Carol,

Good point. Given that my current cars are too puny to tow, particularly 16' to 17' TTs, I will probably buy the TT first, then get a tug with a margin of comfort to tow the camper. If we ended up with a Big Foot, we would shop accordingly for a tug. Currently, most FG manufacturers are on the table. The advantage of window shopping and kicking tires and learning from folks like you!!!

Thx,

Dean

I personally would decide first what trailer I really wanted and would be happy with and then pick the vehicle to pull it accordingly.

I have pulled a 16' that weighed a total of 2550lbs loaded (including the 240lbs tongue) with a vehicle with a 2800lb tow cap and it did ok but suffered after a few years of towing from the wear and tear of towing more than I would have liked. So I did in the end pay for the decision to not change to a different vehicle with a higher tow capacity. That set up did well towing for the most part but it did struggle in the mountains/hills due to lack of power.

Currently tow the same trailer with a mid sized truck 2011 with a 6500lb towing spec and a V6 that pulls the trailer well, not a struggle for it. But its a bit hard on gas. Have family with newer V8's trucks that get the same and better gas milage while towing the same weight as I do.

I am looking to move up in trailer size and have been looked at the Bigfoots (as well as a couple of other brands of trailers) as well but fear the extra weight might put me right back to the same position I was in with the smaller tow vehicle. I will be once again short on power in the mountains and I will take an even bigger hit on the gas milage. Meaning I am going to be reminded far more freqently of the extra weight I am pulling behind me than what I am now. I am planning to do a lot more traveling shortly so I suspect I will notice the MPG's a lot & eventually pay more for the decision to keep current vehicle as well!

So I am having to make decisions as well - do I just bit the bullet and move up in vehicles as well as trailer size or do I try it and see how it goes...... my gut says based on previous experience that if I go to a bigger/heavier trailer I should just move up in vehicle power & tow cap as well....

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

I am looking to move up in trailer size and have been looked at the Bigfoots (as well as a couple of other brands of trailers)

How heavy are you willing to go with a larger trailer?

[David Tilston]

If you are looking at an 80's Bigfoot 17, you should also look at the 80's Bigfoot 19. Same basic layout, just nicer, in my opinion.

[Franswa]

got me thinking of when I was shopping....just another story that might help the OP in his proicess...

I wanted a trailer that was "as small as I could stand it"...because I wanted to do a lot of travelling/exploring "in the bush" (logging roads)

Single axle was a priority right from the start. I wanted the manouverability to handle tight places in the bush as well as negotiate parking lots in towns with ease. If you ever get the chance have a close look at a tandem axle trailer backing into a parking spot.... The less cost in tires/brakes was just a bonus.

I wanted a full bathroom....after years of small boat cruising the "luxury"/possibility of having your own shower was just too good to pass up for me....and I hate schlepping through a campground with a towel around my neck and a shaving kit under my arm (some people mind the stinky slinky... that don't bother me at all....but I hate campground showers)

And that's how the bed thing got settled....the combination of a single axle trailer (3500GVW) with a full bathroom meant that a permanent bed was pretty well out of the question....I decided that making up the bed every night was just going to be in my future and I spent some time and effort to make that daily process as painless as possible.....the BF17 has really two large single beds (the RV world calls a 41 inch bed a "double" (????) not in my world)....so I did a bed mod to deal with that......and I was done. If i'm travelling alone I use one of the beds as designed...2 up, I deploy the mod.

Keep in mind that BFs (1500 series, pre 2005) are on the heavier side compared to other "eggs"....and that brings up another point...BFs aren't really "eggs" at all... they have a large frontal area that will rob some MPGs compared to "real" eggs.....but you can climb on the roof of my BF and do a jig up there if you so chose....they are thick....(lots of storage contained in those square top corners too BTW)

there is no free lunch

good luck in your search

[jon carpenter]

Dean,
My wife and I live in southern IL. Don't know where in KY you live but fairly pretty close I presume. Having always camped in tents, my wife and I are pretty new to the egg camping experience and consequently new to the forums. We did a lot of research as you are doing, but needed to bite the bullet and act. (Bed pre-made, bathroom, frig and A/C to top the list for us). Last fall, we purchased a 2013 17' Casita SD site unseen (shame on us), from a couple in AZ who had health problems and needed to sell their egg. We had to drive over 1,200 mile one way to get our egg. We couldn't be happier. Then she found a better TV for our egg, a 2012 Ford F-150 with 60,000 miles on it. We came in just a couple hundred $ over our budget of $25,000 similar to your quest. Keep doing research and keep active on the forums. you will find what you want. Just enjoy and don't compare or wish you had something different.

Also, FYI, there is an egg rally at Land Between the Lakes in KY from October 1-4, which could help you narrow down your search. We are unable to attend but you might get some ideas of what you want.

happy travels...jon & Skip (aka Louise)

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by MC1

How heavy are you willing to go with a larger trailer?

Lets just say bigger than a 17.5 Bigfoot

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi All,

Ray, you keep introducing me to "hot button" issues!!! It looks like there are a few. Yup, I bet there are lots of opinions about tow vehicles. I agree with you that reliability of the tow vehicle is important. I am also a big Consumer Reports fan. I was just reading a recent issue of Motor Trend that included their 2016 Truck and Sport Utility data on vehicles. I have subscribed to Motor Trend for about 30 years. I used to lust after sports cars. Now. I lust over a tug!!! I, too, love my Honda Fit, but not to tow! Thanks for your experiences regarding your Ford Escape as well as your comments regarding torque moving RVs.

Carol H, looks like you will have some decision making as well regarding increasing trailer size and the impact on maintaining or upgrading the TV.

David, I will keep an eye out for 80s 19 ft Bigfoots as well as 17 ft units. Heck for that matter, I am keeping an eye out for anything fiberglass on two or more wheels!

Francois, I like your comment "as small as I can stand it". My DW and I are approaching our first rig the same way. For us, that may mean a 16' to 17' first rig, but until we "see" more rigs, we are not ruling anything out. Love some of those small Scamps. Must have a bathroom, though!!! I have read pros and cons about single vs double axles. I will need to study that issue more. We think we want a bed area separate from a small dinette. You are right, "there is no free lunch"!!!

Jon, my DW and I are in southcentral KY. I love your Casita '17 SD and Ford F150 combo. That would be a great combo for my DW and I as well, I believe. Yup, my DW and I are going to take a day or two to go to the LBL Rally! It will be our first rally!!! We are so excited. Several folks with the rally have really encouraged us to attend. Very nice.

Take care,

Dean

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by DeanCHS1980

Carol H, looks like you will have some decision making as well regarding increasing trailer size and the impact on maintaining or upgrading the TV.

Actually currently trying to avoid the hard decision & continuing to buy lotto tickets in hopes my numbers come up and I can buy my dream tow vehicle - a VW Touareg.

Over the years I have towed with a couple of trucks as well as other types of vehicles and although I currently pull with a truck I am not of the fraternity that believes them to be the cats meow when it comes to towing.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Actually currently trying to avoid the hard decision & continuing to buy lotto tickets in hopes my numbers come up and I can buy my dream tow vehicle - a VW Touareg.

Over the years I have towed with a couple of trucks as well as other types of vehicles and although I currently pull with a truck I am not of the fraternity that believes them to be the cats meow when it comes to towing.

Wow, it is a rare occasion when we are on the same page Carol. .... A VW T-Reg or BMW X5 would make an exceptional TV for almost any trailer, any size, but as Dean stated re the Consumer Report data, reliability and cost factor come into play and is not great for these vehicles.

My next choice would be a Toyota Sienna or Honda Oddy mini van followed by a Ford Edge or Flex, all of which we know can safely, and reliably tow some good sized TT's when set up optimally. Some cars work great too. Ref towing specialist articles and test reports.

Re pickups, I also agree, will tow a trailer down the road but with reservations. For what they are capable of they are too large and lack precise handling which plays a big part in trailer towing control and stability.


Of course there are many other top rated TV's and it comes down to personal preferences.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by MC1

Re pickups, I also agree, will tow a trailer down the road but with reservations. For what they are capable of they are too large and lack precise handling which plays a big part in trailer towing control and stability.Of course there are many other top rated TV's and it comes down to personal preferences.

Wayne, I have to chuckle a bit to the posts I read of folks that kind of state, let me say, that cars are the only TV for comfort. Got to say that I'm on the other end of that thought. After over 100 vehicles I am way more comfortable in a truck, doing anything. Not saying that many cars can't be good tugs but some folks like me don't like driving cars. I'm comfortable towing with a truck and not really comfortable driving/riding in a car. Everyones level is different and if the reason is squeezing out the extra MPG for example, that isn't something I worry about. Like they say if it's marine or RV related it's going to cost more to play. What do they say about having a boat, break out another thousand . As is mentioned often, YMMV.

[MC1]

I understand what you are saying Dave and due to the popularity of pickups you stand with a large crowd.

My sis has a Hummer H2. There is nothing I like about this big, heavy, top heavy vehicle. I am not comfortable driving it on the highway.

The thing with some cars as TV are concerned is they do have better handling, shorter stopping distances, and when not towing many, like you suggested have good fuel mileage. Different strokes for different folks. I get it.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by MC1

My next choice would be a Toyota Sienna or Honda Oddy mini van followed by a Ford Edge or Flex, all of which we know can safely, and reliably tow some good sized TT's when set up optimally. Some cars work great too. Ref towing specialist articles and test reports.

.

My choose of tow vehicle if I were going to tow something in the 4000lb range would be the Toyota Highlander. I know a few people towing with them and they are very happy campers. I believe it has a 5000lb tow spec.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

My choose of tow vehicle if I were going to tow something in the 4000lb range would be the Toyota Highlander. I know a few people towing with them and they are very happy campers. I believe it has a 5000lb tow spec.

You can't beat the reliability of a Toyota.

[OneOleMan]

The thing I like most about my 4Runner isn't the gas mileage, or the tow capacity, or the comfort. The thing I like most is the son of a gun is paid for.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Borrego Dave

Wayne, I have to chuckle a bit to the posts I read of folks that kind of state, let me say, that cars are the only TV for comfort. Got to say that I'm on the other end of that thought. After over 100 vehicles I am way more comfortable in a truck, doing anything. Not saying that many cars can't be good tugs but some folks like me don't like driving cars.

Dave, I actually do like driving my truck as well. Something to be said about sitting a bit higher and being able to see a lot more of whats happening ahead. It also been my experience that many of the new trucks are just as darn comfortable to do a 14 hour road trip in if not more so than many cars. Actually did a couple of such trips in a new Ford F150 last winter and it was a VERY comfortable ride. I was not any less comfortable as a passanger than when I taking a trip in an Audi R8.

Gas milage on many of the new vehicles/trucks is pretty impressive as well so I agree the using the gas argument for going with an under speced tow vehicle really doesn't cut it these days either.

I suspect whether or not the truck is for you are not comes down to what else you do with the vehicle when not towing & if you only have the luxury of owning one vehicle that needs to meet all your needs.

For me living in a city finding a parking spot for the truck when shopping in a city can be more than just a bit of a pain. Finding an underground parking spot in downtown that has the roof clearance is also a challenge. Getting in and out of the truck in high heels and a dress can also be an interesting experience which I can appreciate most guys here probable have never had the experience of. Then again perhaps some have! Frequently having to load up an elderly relative into the cab of a truck can also be less than fun & having to man handle a walker up & over into the back of the truck and retrieve it frequently can get old fast. Having to crawl into the back of the truck in a dress or other good clothing to retrieve items that have slid in the box up towards the cab isn't fun either. Last but not least if you live in an area where you do a lot of driving in the snow a truck is going to be your least favourable vehicle in regards to its ability to perform real well in such conditions.

Bottom line is in my experience trucks are not the only vehicle choose one has if wanting a very solid and safe tow. In fact I dare to suggest there are in fact alternative vehicles that may give a more solid tow under all towing conditions. For me having a rock solid tow set up in all conditions translates to comfort - due to less stress.

Trucks may be a good choose for some but perhaps not so for others.