A Bad Move

[Gerry]

I was in North Conway the other day when I saw a sign on the Wal*Mart door saying that there will be no more overnight parking in parking lots in the town of Conway for campers by town ordinance.
There has been years of whining and crying from local campgrounds (although most are full all season) that they are losing money but now the town will lose money because all the overnighters, that are just driving through will just drive through.
The campers I have seen, prior to the ordinance were not camping at the parking lots (which I do think is wrong) but just staying a nite or two.
No generators running, no awnings out, no patio funiture about.
The town will lose money from these people, not eating and shopping in the area if they can stay while just passing through.
Besides most campgrounds around here close for the winter but some of us do like to venture out in late fall.
This was a mistake by the people who are going to run North Conway (into the ground) in my opinion.
Gerry the Canoebuilder

[james kent]

Put a notice on the store's bulletin board saying, We miss you. " There's parking at ------ the next closest store. Use it, then come on back and use OUR resturants, groceries, and hardware stores.

[Donna D.]

In our case (Portland), the private campgrounds didn't cause the change.... it was the truly homeless/transient types. We now have a "NO" camping policy within the city limits. That doesn't mean it's stopped the homeless from pitching tents on private or public property, but it has allowed the police officers a valid reason to stop and talk.

[Brian B-P]

The topic of municipal restrictions on overnight parking seems to be getting a lot of attention, in forums like this and in letters to RV magazines. Usually, when I read of someone's complaint about restrictions, they don't get much sympathy from me because they're not being reasonable.

In this case, Gerry is describing responsible and reasonable WalMart lot users, and it is unfortunate for them, and unfortunate that they will not be giving the town their business. On the other hand...

• these rules are usually the result of people who are not being reasonable or responsible in their camping, and
• if the cost of a basic campsite for one night is so critical to the WalMart "campers", how much could they be spending in town anyway? (availability of a campsite is another matter)

I have not done the WalMart thing with our Boler, although we considered it one night. To me, it's nice to know that it is (in most places) an option, but I'm not particularly upset that in other places that it isn't an option. No one owes me a free place to camp.

Speaking of free places to camp... there are lots of legitimate ones, as discussed in other topics.

We have stayed in one free municipal park campsite, in Peace River (Alberta). I assume that the town offered this to encourage visitors, and we did indeed do some shopping for meals and supplies in town... no WalMart required, and no problem with municipal bylaws.

[jim munson]

When Sam Walton , who was a RV camper, offered this service to people he was being very kind. I appreciate this and always stay at Walmart while enroute. Why should I pay $15 to $35 dollars for a short nights rest? I usally buy a BBQ chicken or somthing so as to show my appreciation.
I know that some stores have no camping signs which is usually not enforced except to keep the loiterers away.
Some of the rigs are old and tattered so they need a break financially-they all promptly the move on their way in the morning.
Walmart has several social issues everybody knows about, but old Sam (RIP) was a good man.
When I stay there I don't feel they "owe" me anything.

[John Perry]

[*]if the cost of a basic campsite for one night is so critical to the WalMart "campers", how much could they be spending in town anyway? (availability of a campsite is another matter)[/list]

When my boys were young we loved to camp at Eagle Lake near Susanville Ca. The camping spots were $5.00 a night. There were always many other children for my boys to play with. The Forest Service, in it's infinite wisdom, raised the fee to $10.00 a night and there were very few children for my boys to play with and there were empty camp spots that were always full in the past.
Now that Forest Service and National Park camp site prices are almost comparable to private sites camping for some with large familys is no longer feasable as it once was.
Maybe a free night on the way to a Forest Campground could make the differance for some campers and their children.

[Gerry]

It is not a question of economics with the rigs I see parked in the lots but as said the availability of campsites in the area. As said alot are full all summer long and unlike alot of areas the campgrounds around here do not have "overflow" areas.
Also some of the rigs I see would not be able to get into some of the campgrouds due to size. Money is not an issue.
The municipal parking area is a small parking lot down town, used for businesses also, and all but imposible to manouver with a car let alone a 30ft motor home.
Next town to the north is Birlin NH and you can stay there on your next drive north. Or come 15 miles East to Fryeburge and there is a new information center with lots of parking.
Gerry the Canoebuilder

[John Perry]

It is not a question of economics with the rigs I see parked in the lots but as said the availability of campsites in the area.

I know what you mean Gerry. I was responding to a specific comment.
The only time I was considering a stop in a Wal-Mart parking lot was when I was very tired, had driven 10 hours, and the next camping area was another 25 miles. I did go in and buy several items and asked the store manager about overnight parking. He is the one that told me about the local ordinance not allowing overnight parking.
I think you are right and it will eventually cost the city money as they not being very considerate of their visitors. Especially those that show up late in the evening. I will think twice before I stop in Grand Junction again.
John

[Karalyn]

I have never pulled into a Wal mart to sleep but if very tired, and wanting a few hours rest, I had that option in mind. Without that option I really don't know what I would do. I fsuppose I would just keep driving. That option does not make sence to me.
I could most likely find a Wal mart in a town along the highway, but would have no idea where to try next. if turned down. I KNOW I would be dumb enough to keep driving as I have done so before when motels were not available when traveling in my car . I do not know how I kept my car on the road when traveiling home from Branson a couple of years ago, but no where to stop along the I 35 between Desmoines and Minneapolis that night. It was hell, everywhere I stopped it was full. I hope I never have to do it again.
I have gone to Walmarts shopping just because they gave us the over night stay option. With out that option I might just boycott Walmart all together.

[John Perry]

I have gone to Walmarts shopping just because they gave us the over night stay option. With out that option I might just boycott Walmart all together.

It is not Wal-Mart that does not welcome travelers it is city officials and their local ordinances.
John

[Gerry]

It is not Wal-Mart that does not welcome travelers it is city officials and their local ordinances.
John

Your right it is not Wal*Mart but the town ....
Better watch out what I say, Wife works as a town employee but I am just glad we live over the boarder in Maine.
Is this a trend to alot or Wal*Mart towns????
It was just a few months ago that I saw campers parked at another shopping complex in town along with the ones at Wal*Mart and mentioned to the wife, and she said she didn't think they were alowed to park over-night at that spot, but it was obvious they were, so maybe this is what brought about the whole problem? Who knows?
Will have to think about NH motto: Live FREE or Die
With the money I now have to pay to get a sticker on my cars just so I can park and eat a PBJ sandwich along the side of the road, in the White Mt. National Forest to the fee I gotta pay to go into the woods to cut and drag out my own X-mas tree. I will have my own motto: Live Poor-Die Poorer but have fun Camping - if you can afford it!
Gerry the Canoebuilder

[Brian B-P]

I have gone to Walmarts shopping just because they gave us the over night stay option. With out that option I might just boycott Walmart all together.

I don't think I quite understand this. If a gas station does not allow overnight parking, should it be boycotted? How about a restaurant?

It's nice that when WalMart builds they obliterate enough of whatever was there to provide lots of parking spaces, and thus have so many extras that they can let people camp in them... seriously, I would appreciate it if I were to ever use one. I just don't understand how running a department store - or any other business except an RV park - implies a duty to supply overnight RV parking facilities.

Maybe it's just that WalMart is so repulsive that the only reason we would tolerate them is that they allow RV parking? Not my position, but I can understand some might feel that way.

[Byron Kinnaman]

I don't think I quite understand this. If a gas station does not allow overnight parking, should it be boycotted? How about a restaurant?

It's nice that when WalMart builds they obliterate enough of whatever was there to provide lots of parking spaces, and thus have so many extras that they can let people camp in them... seriously, I would appreciate it if I were to ever use one. I just don't understand how running a department store - or any other business except an RV park - implies a duty to supply overnight RV parking facilities.

Maybe it's just that WalMart is so repulsive that the only reason we would tolerate them is that they allow RV parking? Not my position, but I can understand some might feel that way.

The problem is not with Wal-Mart, it's with the local government agency. Wal-Mart parking lots are quite full during the day with shoppers, night time, not so full. Many are open 24 hours a day, so you can shop, use the bath rooms, etc. at night with few people around.
Billings MT tried a couple years ago to stop RVs from spending the night in the local Wal-Mart parking lot. It was all brought about by 2 local RV parks. The RV park owners had some very unkind things to say about RVers. Billings was boycotted by many RVers. I think it's been reversed.

[jack smith]

I went coast to coast twice.... once in '03 then again in '04 .... spent one night in WM...... lotsa noise..... never did I do that again! Nor will I ever do that again! I now plan ahead..... either find a camp spot that is reasonable.... or go offroad! Pretty easy with my current rig! (Jeep + teardrop trailer)

[Art Davis]

Well, my input is this: every time we have tried to overnight in a Wally World parking lot, the management said, "Sorry, the city doesn't allow it." This even happened with some that are listed as accepting overnighters.

That said, I think the fact that a municipality (for whatever reason---say pressure from rv parks or any other special interest group) exerts pressure on Walmart to not allow overnighting is unconscionable. If there is a problem with folks abusing the privilege, then that can be dealt with. Shutting it down for everyone is kinda' like the old thing in grammar school where the teacher penalizes the entire class for what one or a few students are doing. Wally World could post regulations for the use of their parking lots, saying, for instance, no popouts extended, now awnings deployed, etc. Then if an overnighter doesn't comply, the authorities could tell them to move along.

One thing that has kept me from wanting to overnight at Wally's is that we use an external grey water tank. But I figure that if we use their parking lot, we just won't use the sink.

Art

[Gerry]

Well as some said and I can agree that in a pinch it WAS a great thing to come up to a parking lot and pull in but on the other hand I thought it tacky and though to myself "What a shame people are so Cheap with a rig like that, that they plan the trip around free parking lots".
This may or may not be true, I do not know but I do know this, The people will not see it as an act of the town but an action taken by Wal*Mart.
People have forgoten to rationalize or even read and will only see the bold print on the posted notes on doors "NO OVERNIGHT PARKING" and not read the following lines that it is due to the Town Ordinance.
Away they will go grumbling about Wally World and they may or maynot leave town but Wal*Mart will suffer from the loss of thier business.
I always told the wife I just wanted stay one night there to say we did...guess I will have to go to a town where no ordinance has been passed "YET"
Gerry the Canoebuilder

[Paul from NWOnt]

We have a very nice little municipal campground, with 16 serviced (power/water) sites, and a fairly large tenting area that is unmarked so you can set up where you like, or even boondock with a small camper. We have washroom facilities, showers, a playground, and a beach. Fees run from 8 to 25 bux a night depending on amperage of service. I always thought they were a little high, but I don't have any say. I can easily count on one hand the number of times I saw it full while working there this summer.

People still park at Walmart.

Not some beat up little canned ham mind you, but some really nice rigs worth more than my house.

The only difference I could see was direction of travel. If you came across the border, and were headed east the campground was easiest. West meant Walmart. Even with signs posted, people still stayed there. I have no problem with this whatsoever. If people would prefer to stay in a wide open parking lot rather than drive the extra 5 minutes to stay in a cheap campground, they should be allowed. People should be free to make their own determination of comfort level in that regard.

I can see no detrimental effect from allowing campers to overnight in a parking lot.

[Lee Hillsgrove]

Will have to think about NH motto: Live FREE or Die
With the money I now have to pay to get a sticker on my cars just so I can park and eat a PBJ sandwich along the side of the road, in the White Mt. National Forest to the fee I gotta pay to go into the woods to cut and drag out my own X-mas tree. I will have my own motto: Live Poor-Die Poorer but have fun Camping - if you can afford it!
Gerry the Canoebuilder

For better or worse, NH relies on tourists' $$$. North Conway is a very good example of that - the town lives on tourism, and in my opinion it targets upper-class tourism, if you know what I mean. If the town can help to upgrade the clientele by barring free overnight parking, they see that as a positive thing. Besides, they figure those RVs just look tacky in a town that promotes upper-crust image.

The access sticker to use the forest is a Federal thing, not a State thing, correct? If so, can't blame NH for that one. Same thing with the access pass on Mt. Desert Island so you can use the scenic roads around Cadillac Mountain - it's not Maine but the Feds.

[Pat G]

I to have always wanted to stay at a Walmart just to say I did. We have tried when we have been out traveling but the signs were up saying no RVs. I have stayed at a Flying J. Ear plugs are a good thing. Ear plugs are good at music festivals also.