A word of warning

[Meghan]

I hit and killed a deer and people I know came and got it doe meat. They just registered or with the police. I don't think it interfered with their limit, although I'm not sure

[Roger C H]

I understand some states gather up (fresh, of course) road kill and use it for food in the prisons.

I don't know that pumas were ever a big threat to humans but they can put a sheep rancher out of business in short order. OTOH, there is something primeval about being eaten. Often, because they are smaller, children are the victims, as listed in the linked article.

[jen b]

It always puzzles me why ranchers don't spring for more guard dogs. They've got all this cheap subsidized land to use, surely there's some extra cheddar for a bunch of akbash or something? Anyway, there is something maybe appropriately humbling for humans about the fact that sometimes we're not the top predator in the room. I've been (safely) close enough to big fat wild alligators as well as semi domesticated wolves to have that feeling of being put firmly in my place.

[Francesca Knowles]

And what ever happened to shepherds and cowboys?
From ancient times until recently, didn't people guard the animals we domesticated?
I wonder how much predation has increased since the employment of human guards stopped...

[rabbit]

Transcontinental walkabouts are one thing; indigenous coy dogs are another. Nuf' said. Actually could probably use a few coyotes in the east to thin the whitetail. Oh, they're already here! Good. They couldn't screw things up worse than the DNR.

jack

[Toni M T]

I live in Southern California and we have a number of sightings of Mountain Lions around here every year. The Park up the street from here has mountain lion warnings posted every couple of months or so when there are sightings. However, given the large population of hikers, campers, bikers and joggers running through the trails on any given day, there are very few attacks on humans. (family pets are a whole other story. There are many instances of cats and dogs being attacked in their yards in broad daylight. Two years ago a guy near here heard a noise on his porch at twighlight, and when he opened the door he caught a glimpse of a big mountain lion leaping over his 7 ft. stone wall with his 75 lb. Husky in its jaws.)

I hike frequently (rarely alone, but sometimes get separated from the group a bit) and I tend to carry a walking stick....the Naturalists around here say that if you are confronted by a mountain lion the best course of action is to back up against a tree and stab at it with your stick. Running is a bad idea. I hike with the Sierra Club and have done so for more than 15 years, and of the large number of people who go out into the wilderness once or twice a week year round, I have never met anyone who has actually been attacked by a mountain lion....

I think on the rare occasions people are attacked by wild animals (I will throw bears and sharks and coyotes and moose/buffalo into the mix) the attacks are so sensationalized that it makes people fearful even though the chance of being killed by a serial killer is probably much, much higher than of being attacked or hurt by a wild animal, and I honestly doubt that a serial killer is all that much of a risk either ( 95% of all people die in bed-and no one issues warnings about the dangers of lying in bed ).

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Toni M T

I live in Southern California and we have a number of sightings of Mountain Lions around here every year. The Park up the street from here has mountain lion warnings posted every couple of months or so when there are sightings. However, given the large population of hikers, campers, bikers and joggers running through the trails on any given day, there are very few attacks on humans. (family pets are a whole other story. There are many instances of cats and dogs being attacked in their yards in broad daylight. Two years ago a guy near here heard a noise on his porch at twighlight, and when he opened the door he caught a glimpse of a big mountain lion leaping over his 7 ft. stone wall with his 75 lb. Husky in its jaws.)

I hike frequently (rarely alone, but sometimes get separated from the group a bit) and I tend to carry a walking stick....the Naturalists around here say that if you are confronted by a mountain lion the best course of action is to back up against a tree and stab at it with your stick. Running is a bad idea. I hike with the Sierra Club and have done so for more than 15 years, and of the large number of people who go out into the wilderness once or twice a week year round, I have never met anyone who has actually been attacked by a mountain lion....

I think on the rare occasions people are attacked by wild animals (I will throw bears and sharks and coyotes and moose/buffalo into the mix) the attacks are so sensationalized that it makes people fearful even though the chance of being killed by a serial killer is probably much, much higher than of being attacked or hurt by a wild animal, and I honestly doubt that a serial killer is all that much of a risk either ( 95% of all people die in bed-and no one issues warnings about the dangers of lying in bed ).

Ya what he said.....

Which reminds me the bear attack in Alaska was brought about by the young folks not knowing how to act when they saw the bear. Yelling, screaming and running is sure to bring on an attack. Standing still, the bear probably can't even tell what you are. They don't have very good eye sight.
Basic rule stop, don't run, quietly back away, don't make eye contact.

I haven't heard of any predator attacks on humans that wasn't caused by either the humans or their dogs.

[Francesca Knowles]

Well put, Toni and Byron !

I carry a stick in cougar country, too- and the rule when we're hiking with children is that they're placed in the middle of our "pack" so that there's a fence of grownups between them and the unknown.
Interesting note on "big cat protection":
The British with the ever-present "bumbershoot" introduced this precaution in tiger country...
Upon such an encounter, the umbrella is pointed at the cat and opened and closed quickly, which apparently deceives the cat into thinking its "victim" is some kind of huge predatory bird or something. Off they go, supposedly.
The custom persists today, and I've often thought that the person that perfects a hiking staff with a lightweight umbrella incorporated would make a- well, a "killing" selling it to the more cautious outdoor enthusiasts among us.

Francesca

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Which reminds me the bear attack in Alaska was brought about by the young folks not knowing how to act when they saw the bear.

Yes, folks have been living in urban environments for so long that many aren't educated about animals the way earlier generations were.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

Yes, folks have been living in urban environments for so long that many aren't educated about animals the way earlier generations were.

That along with the media inciting paranoia.

[Toni M T]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

That along with the media inciting paranoia.

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Well put, Toni and Byron !

I carry a stick in cougar country, too- and the rule when we're hiking with children is that they're placed in the middle of our "pack" so that there's a fence of grownups between them and the unknown.
Interesting note on "big cat protection":
The British with the ever-present "bumbershoot" introduced this precaution in tiger country...
Upon such an encounter, the umbrella is pointed at the cat and opened and closed quickly, which apparently deceives the cat into thinking its "victim" is some kind of huge predatory bird or something. Off they go, supposedly.
The custom persists today, and I've often thought that the person that perfects a hiking staff with a lightweight umbrella incorporated would make a- well, a "killing" selling it to the more cautious outdoor enthusiasts among us.

Francesca

I have anecdotal evidence of the umbrella being a great idea-when I worked in Glacier Park many years ago, there was a busload of Japanese Tourists hiking a short distance to a waterfall on a paved path. As they rounded a turn, they startled a Grizzly Bear on the path right in front of them, which reared up on its hind legs and then started to charge them. One of the Japanese ladies in front opened up her umbrella, and the Grizzly came to a screeching halt and fell over itself in its haste to run away at top speed! When the tour bus dropped off the tour at our hotel that night, they were a little shaken up, but they WERE all in one piece! Back then some of the more obnoxious (and funny) people I worked with had T-Shirts that said "Grizzlys: 6, Tourists: 0"

When we go up to the park with all of the mountain lion sightings, I usually bring the dog. He is a Sheltie/Australian Shepard mix (so no viscious guard dog/probably just an appetizer for a mountain lion) but he would be able to smell and probably see a mountain lion before any of us and raise a fuss. I make the kids take him everywhere on the leash as they are exploring at the edge of the big lawn of the park. Other than that, I don't lose sleep over it. According to that article, there have been just 9 mountain lion attacks since 1986 (and only 3 or 4 before that)-when you think about the millions of people who live out here; a large number of which go camping/hiking/backpacking in the parks around here, that is a very miniscule number of confrontations.

Also, I just want to throw out there that while people probably don't "hunt" mountain lions around here, I know a number of ranchers and homeowners that carry around guns and would have no problem with shooting one if it was on their property. My 7 year old's best friend lives on a ranch, and a mountain lion attacked and killed 4 of their goats last Fall (which were in a pen)....her Dad carries a gun everywhere on the ranch and can't wait for the chance to settle the score!

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Toni M T

I have anecdotal evidence of the umbrella being a great idea-when I worked in Glacier Park many years ago, there was a busload of Japanese Tourists hiking a short distance to a waterfall on a paved path. As they rounded a turn, they startled a Grizzly Bear on the path right in front of them, which reared up on its hind legs and then started to charge them. One of the Japanese ladies in front opened up her umbrella, and the Grizzly came to a screeching halt and fell over itself in its haste to run away at top speed! When the tour bus dropped off the tour at our hotel that night, they were a little shaken up, but they WERE all in one piece! Back then some of the more obnoxious (and funny) people I worked with had T-Shirts that said "Grizzlys: 6, Tourists: 0"

When we go up to the park with all of the mountain lion sightings, I usually bring the dog. He is a Sheltie/Australian Shepard mix (so no viscious guard dog/probably just an appetizer for a mountain lion) but he would be able to smell and probably see a mountain lion before any of us and raise a fuss. I make the kids take him everywhere on the leash as they are exploring at the edge of the big lawn of the park. Other than that, I don't lose sleep over it. According to that article, there have been just 9 mountain lion attacks since 1986 (and only 3 or 4 before that)-when you think about the millions of people who live out here; a large number of which go camping/hiking/backpacking in the parks around here, that is a very miniscule number of confrontations.

Also, I just want to throw out there that while people probably don't "hunt" mountain lions around here, I know a number of ranchers and homeowners that carry around guns and would have no problem with shooting one if it was on their property. My 7 year old's best friend lives on a ranch, and a mountain lion attacked and killed 4 of their goats last Fall (which were in a pen)....her Dad carries a gun everywhere on the ranch and can't wait for the chance to settle the score!

First off. Bear don't stand on their hind legs and charge. They stand on their hind legs to see better. The umbrella made the person look larger. Generally bear are afraid of people, so once it figured out what they were it left in a hurry.
Dogs are food for mountain lions and an irritant for bears. Many bear encounters are caused by dog harassing the bear, then running for protection behind it's master. The master is now caught between the bear and dog with the bear trying harm the dog.
Dogs in bear and mountain lion country are not a good idea.

[Toni M T]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

First off. Bear don't stand on their hind legs and charge. They stand on their hind legs to see better. The umbrella made the person look larger. Generally bear are afraid of people, so once it figured out what they were it left in a hurry.
Dogs are food for mountain lions and an irritant for bears. Many bear encounters are caused by dog harassing the bear, then running for protection behind it's master. The master is now caught between the bear and dog with the bear trying harm the dog.
Dogs in bear and mountain lion country are not a good idea.

Grizzly Bears in Glacier Park are more aggressive than your average bears in the lower 48 (my brother lives in Alaska, and the bears there are far more aggressive than the ones in Glacier)...I think it is because they are hungry and grouchy-if you get between them and their cubs or them and their dead elk in the brush, they do not always back off. Also, I didn't mean to imply that the bear was running at the tourists on his hind legs-they said he was coming their way on all fours (but when he stood up to get a good look at them I'll bet a few of them nearly wet their pants, because it sounded like this was a full size Grizzly, and when they stand on their hind legs they are at least 7 feet tall. I am pretty sure that with its poor eyesight the umbrella threw it for a loop (strangely enough in all the hiking we did that summer no one bothered to bring an umbrella; or bear pepper spray; aaah, the reckless confidence of youth!)

Our dog is a wuss-I am pretty sure he would not harass any wild animals. Besides, we keep him on the leash so he doesn't wander off into the brush, attract the ire of some wild animal, and then lead it back to us as he is making his escape....

[Toni M T]

That said, I do find this cartoon pretty amusing.

[honda03842]

In ALaska's Denali we saw 18 Grizzles. One mother after protecting her cub from a male Grizzle stood up in the road in front of our Denaali School Bus, an unbelievably assume sight. They're huge on all fours, standing they are hugh

Norm

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Toni M T

Grizzly Bears in Glacier Park are more aggressive than your average bears in the lower 48 (my brother lives in Alaska, and the bears there are far more aggressive than the ones in Glacier)...I think it is because they are hungry and grouchy-if you get between them and their cubs or them and their dead elk in the brush, they do not always back off. Also, I didn't mean to imply that the bear was running at the tourists on his hind legs-they said he was coming their way on all fours (but when he stood up to get a good look at them I'll bet a few of them nearly wet their pants, because it sounded like this was a full size Grizzly, and when they stand on their hind legs they are at least 7 feet tall. I am pretty sure that with its poor eyesight the umbrella threw it for a loop (strangely enough in all the hiking we did that summer no one bothered to bring an umbrella; or bear pepper spray; aaah, the reckless confidence of youth!)

Our dog is a wuss-I am pretty sure he would not harass any wild animals. Besides, we keep him on the leash so he doesn't wander off into the brush, attract the ire of some wild animal, and then lead it back to us as he is making his escape....

A predator comes after your dog, what are going to do?

[Ken C]

I agree Toni

[Toni M T]

I always carry around pepper spray and a loud "confetti" gun in the dog's "fanny" pack (with the cleanup bags). I am less worried about predators than I am about loose Pit Bulls when I am out walking the dog, as many of my friends have stories to tell about stray dogs sidling up, then grabbing your dog and shaking it... (but there are also plenty of instances of coyotes sweeping out of the Barranca and grabbing pets off the city sidewalks, so I am covered there as well if they don't manage to chew through the leash to make a clean escape before I grab it out and deploy....).

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

First off. Bear don't stand on their hind legs and charge. They stand on their hind legs to see better. The umbrella made the person look larger. Generally bear are afraid of people, so once it figured out what they were it left in a hurry.
Dogs are food for mountain lions and an irritant for bears. Many bear encounters are caused by dog harassing the bear, then running for protection behind it's master. The master is now caught between the bear and dog with the bear trying harm the dog.
Dogs in bear and mountain lion country are not a good idea.

Having grown up in an area with a large cougar population (Vancouver Island) and knowing very well what they are capable of and living now in an urban area where black bears in the back yard are a commonn sight I could not agree with you more Byron.

Hiking with a dog of any size in areas frequented by cougars raises some serious concerns or at least for me it does/did as I happened to love my dog & would hate for it to be hurt/killed. I know on occasions when hiking in cougar areas & the dog happened to be with me I would occasionally hear something in the woods and felt that perhaps we were being tracked - cougars will do that and rarely will they let you see them before they attach. I often would try and make my mind up as what best to do if it turned out to be a cougar. I know I would not have any chance of fighting it off if I kept the dog with me on leash -fighting back is your only option with a cougar (the reason I carry a small knife is *only* due to cougars) or should I let the dog off leash and sacrifice him - no question in my mind he would loose even even though he was a big dog. Making load sounds and having a dog bark will work in most instances of scaring off a black bear (providing your not between mom and cubs) but IMHO its not going to help you in the case of a cougar. Happy I have never had to find out the answer to what I would actually do in the case of having to face off with a cougar and having a dog with me but either way Im pretty sure it would not be a happy ending either way. Yes dogs are used to track down problem cougars but they are not used to scare the cougar off - the person doing the tracking is normally carrying a real *big* loaded gun for that. I am not a big fan of guns of any kind but I fully respect why they are needed in the case of dealing with problem cougars.

I currently live in an urban area where black bears are common - one spent last night rolling garbage cans down the alley - which the owner of the cans can be fined for having put them out before pick up day. We are all taught to banging pots and pans etc to make the black bears feel unwelcome in our yards and that normally works well. Letting your dog out to chase them or bark at them is a really *bad* idea though. A women a few weeks back did that and the dog got between a cub and momma bear, Momma bear got upset and chased the dog back to the house - the owner of the dog managed to open the door to let the dog in and slam it shut just before the bear got to the door. Once at the closed door the bear stood on her hind legs with her paws on the glass window on the door and trying to see the dog in the house - lucky for the women that it did not manage to push the glass out of the door. Just what you need a mad momma bear hunting down your dog in the house - cant imagine the mess that would make! :-) Happy to say the bear lives to the tell the story just as the grizzly that killed the fellow in Yellowstone a few weeks back lives on. Conservation officers in most areas these days will not shoot wild animals that are only doing what comes natural when they were being harassed by silly humans and/or their dogs.