A word of warning

[Roger C H]

Not to be overly concerned, but just so everyone knows:

Mountain Lion Attacks On People in the U.S. and Canada

What concerns me is 'the authorites' are in denial.

I suppose it also would apply to bears.

Making it difficult for hunters does two things:

1. Increases the number of prey animals, rabbits, deer, etc.

2. Increases the number of predatory animals.

[jen b]

Not sure what the argument here is? Are we to be more worried or less worried about mountain lions?

It seems as though they present an exceedingly low risk to just about everybody except rabbits and deer, but should be treated with a very very healthy respect, care, and probably some sensible fear if you're in their territory.

I think I would pee my pants in excitement to see one in the wild and would faint dead away if I ever got a chance to photograph one.

[Francesca Knowles]

I had a bobcat in my front yard a few months ago...
I didn't let the chickens out that day!
Cougars are relatively common too here on the Olympic Peninsula. Something to watch out for when hiking with children or small dogs...
The only human-wildlife fatality here in the recent past involved a mountain goat whose superiority was challenged by a hiker:
Outdoors | Mountain goat kills man in Olympic National Park | Seattle Times Newspaper

Francesca

[Alf S.]

Hi: Francesca Knowles... Support "Wildlife"...throw a party!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[Francesca Knowles]

Hi, Alf

The eagles, coyotes, and hawks around here are partyin' down on free-range chickens just about every day...
and don't get my husband started about the time we were sitting on our deck watching an osprey fly by with a perfectly aerodynamically positioned trout from our pond clutched in his talons...

I swear the wildlife around here eats better than we do, most days!

Francesca

[honda03842]

A mountain lion was killed in Connecticut this weekend by an SUV. The mountain lions genetics were tested and it was determined that he had come from a group in the Dakotas, a 1500 mile hike. Though CT has about 600 people per square mile it has loads of deer.

Norm

[jen b]

Originally Posted by honda03842

A mountain lion was killed in Connecticut this weekend by an SUV. The mountain lions genetics were tested and it was determined that he had come from a group in the Dakotas, a 1500 mile hike. Though CT has about 600 people per square mile it has loads of deer.

Norm

This is pretty cool - not that it was killed, but that they're repopulating the east.

Recently the eastern cougar was finally, finally declared extinct - it not having been documented alive for, oh, a hundred years or so. All mountain lions we see west of the mississippi are members of the western subspecies that is moving east into favorable territory as their numbers expand.

[Ken C]

I saw that too Norm, 1500 miles. Wow, that was something looking at it's path on a map.

[Terry G]

Although I've hiked and camped here for over 40 years, this was the first time I ever saw a bear in Colorado. There was a much bigger than normal snowpack in the high mountains, so this has forced a number of predators into lower elevations to hunt food. It has nothing to do with "making it difficult for hunters" as they are a good source of revenue to the state and are actively encouraged to spend their money here.

[honda03842]

I think one needs to be very alert in prowling the ever growing wild areas of the USA. These days when I drive the Interstates of New England I'm amazed at the size of the trees. When we hike I am more vigilant than ever, continually telling me wife to be alert, these are not the forests of our childhood. When we were young you hardly ever saw deer, today you can see moose.

We live in a tightly packed beach community, the minimum and typical lot size is 40x80 (taxed at $100,000 for the land) yet this year my brother-in law heard what he thought was a horse, wondering what it was doing in the neighborhood. He turned about and this huge moose was walking down our narrow street towards a nearby marsh.

It eventually ended up in the school yard. They kept the kids in that day, eventually tranqualizing the dart and hauling the moose way up state, tagging it with a collar. A few weeks later it was spotted in a neighboring town.

Norm

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by jen b

This is pretty cool - not that it was killed, but that they're repopulating the east.

Recently the eastern cougar was finally, finally declared extinct - it not having been documented alive for, oh, a hundred years or so. All mountain lions we see west of the mississippi are members of the western subspecies that is moving east into favorable territory as their numbers expand.

Hi, Jen

Do you think this Eastern cougar sighting could have been part of a repopulation effort?
I confess that I'm with Ken- I like to think that big cat made its own way back there...

Francesca

[jen b]

Sorry, I meant eastern cougar as a particular subspecies, as opposed to cougars who happen to be found in the east. Currently, animals found in the east are part of the western subspecies. If that makes sense.

[Mike Magee]

I think that hunting is not encouraged in today's society here, whereas in the first half of the 20th century it was much more widespread and socially encouraged (not merely acceptable). Thus I think less and less hunting is being done. The result is a larger population of such wildlife.

I am all in favor of enjoying wild game sightings, and I do my own hunting with a camera (unlike my eldest brother, who loves to hunt and eat wild game). But a time may soon be approaching when we need to make a greater effort to trim back the populations of some predatory species, before they do too much damage to us humans and/or our livelihoods. Wild animals can and often do compete with humans for food and space, not to mention sometimes utilizing humans for their food.

[Francesca Knowles]

It's funny- the problem out here in the West has become one of not enough predators.
The deer population has exploded to the point that they're referred to in some jurisdictions as "urban rats".
Folks can't even have gardens in some places.
The big cats, etc. used to keep their numbers thinned...but not so much anymore.
And as for hunters taking up the slack...in my State, the deer limit remains one per hunter per year.
Kind of sad, really- many deer starve to death each year due to overpopulation, lack of forage, and loss of natural habitat.


Francesca

[Terry G]

I agree with Mike that less hunting is being done. But the real enemy of hunters is not lack of acceptance by society--it's old age. In most states, the number of hunting licenses continues to fall every year. This article blames urbanization:

DNR sees decrease in Iowa hunting licenses

I think there's a lot of factors involved but the biggest problem is probably that hunting is not a hobby that someone spontaneously decides to take up. It's usually a craft that's passed down from father to son and this mentoring isn't happening as much anymore.

I'm an environmentalist, but I respect the job the hunters do in trying to keep the deer population in check. If it wasn't for them, every house in Colorado would have a deer eating the front lawn. I don't know the long term answer. Maybe re-introduce more wolves?

[Victor Benz]

Up our way (Alberta), cougar (mountain lion) sightings are way up. They are becoming more common, even in major urban areas. I have been told by Fish & Wildlife that there are 5-6 individual cats in the Edmonton River Valley system, through to Fort Saskatchewan. There have been serious attacks. Our acreage neighbour across the road had one come down from a large fir tree one morning last year!

The thing to remember about these cats, is there are only carnivorous, and since they are the top of the food chain, we are considered food.

I'm not sure about the tie to hunting, since these are hunted only as trophies or by rancheres experiencing predation on their livestock.

True, hunter numbers are way down in Canada, mostly due to the double whammy of non-lead shot regulations for migratory hunting and the requirement to register all guns made since 1899.

However, it may also be that the effort to beuatify our urban landscapes with return-to-nature park systems is having some unintended consequences.

Another factor is the continued loss of wilderness areas due to our urban sprawl is forcing these animals to relocate elsewhere. One spot comes to mind for me, where I used to hunt grouse through miles of virgin bush. Today, it is mainly an acreage area with a few large farms. The real bush is now some 50 miles further west!.

Vic

[floyd]

The perfect storm for hikers and backcountry campers....Intentionally repopulate the predators, while taking away the the only practical means of defense from people.
Sounds like conspiracy to commit murder by the politicians, using predators as weapons. What next? No belt buckles or metal objects which could choke the predators and interupt a "natural" meal?

[honda03842]

The forested area has truly increased in New England. It was not that long ago when NE was clear cut for farms and fuel. Now the forests have been re-established in a good part of the region. It's a similar situation all over the world. for example forests density in England increqased 10% in the last decade and even 1% in South America.

It turns out that CO2 is a fertilizer for green plants.

When we first started traveling we only heard coyotes in parts of the west, now we hear them all over northern NE and even have seen one in our high density beach community. In our community we would always have a lot of feral cats, people leaving them after the summer season. Now you rarely see them and road kill just disappears. The town crew says it's the coyotes that take the feral cats and clean up the road kill. Can wolves be far behind, definitely there plenty of deer?

A few years ago NH decided to have a 2 week bear hunting season. The first week so many bear were taken they closed the season. It turns out that we have tons of bear. I believe NJ with a population density near India's has 5000 bears. They wanted to have a bear hunting season but were fought and the state caved in to pressure.

The wilds return.

Norm

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

It's funny- the problem out here in the West has become one of not enough predators.
The deer population has exploded to the point that they're referred to in some jurisdictions as "urban rats".
Folks can't even have gardens in some places.
The big cats, etc. used to keep their numbers thinned...but not so much anymore.
And as for hunters taking up the slack...in my State, the deer limit remains one per hunter per year.
Kind of sad, really- many deer starve to death each year due to overpopulation, lack of forage, and loss of natural habitat.


Francesca

Is that one per hunter include per car, we have a lot of car/deer collisions here in Pa.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Is that one per hunter include per car, we have a lot of car/deer collisions here in Pa.

Here, too!

You'll probably find this hard to believe, but my daughter in law hit/killed a deer a couple of years ago and actually inquired of the local Game Warden about salvaging the meat.
She was told that she couldn't because the season was closed, and that even if it were open, she'd have to have had a license/deer tag when she hit the deer. Guess that means road kill counts as part of the limit here....

What a waste

Francesca