An update from Lil Snoozy Land - Page 6 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-26-2013, 09:51 PM   #71
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Eddie, that was very educational.
I used to drive for a company 30 or 40 years ago that hauled tires in a trailer that was made to only haul a race car in. It had a surge brake on it. First I had ever seen. I pulled it with a 1/2 ton ford pickup ('68 style with 390) with racing tires (illegal for highway use). This was definitely an unsafe operation. After about 3 months I quit this company. I was going down along the Buffalo River in Arkansas. The road was steep inclines up and down, up and down. I looked in my rear view mirror and smoke was billowing out from under the trailer. Scary thing was I was "committed" with no place to pull over. Lucky the rig did not burst into flames. A load of rubber would have been a mighty bad thing.

But I'm thinking this may have been a home-made surge-brake. It did jerk back and forth. Went to work for Willis Shaw Frozen Express, and even with their cheaper trucks, it felt so much better than the home made rig.

Looks like technology has definitely come a long way.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:52 PM   #72
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Alan Smoak just told me yesterday that he can provide electric brakes for me on the cargo unit I'm wanting. That was welcome news.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:58 PM   #73
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That's great Mike.

If you haven't seen a Snoozy first hand, once I get mine home, I think I'm only 60 or 70 miles from you.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:20 PM   #74
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Here's the latest low down from Lil Snoozy:
=============================
Carl,
The 4 pin is all you need. We are using a different brake set up now
that does not require the electric brake lock out, it is automatic and
releases the brakes when it senses the wheel wanting to moving in
reverse. Simpler and less maintence. Abd your camper is ready for pickup
as of today.

Thanks
Alan Smoak
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:54 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Longest View Post
I think it is just a mechanical release in the drum when you back up
Free-backing drum brakes - which just slip instead of effectively gripping and braking when rotated backwards - are the way to go for surge systems, if using drums. Unfortunately, there is no disk equivalent - they work in both directions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
So whatever ultimate method they use, how is deactivation...."activated"? Or are you saying that the trailer brakes just automatically stop working if backing?
Automatically not working when backing is the point of the free-backing brakes which Eddie mentioned - they just don't exist in disk form.

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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
Is there or isn't there an electric connection to the tug's backup lights?
Properly connected, an electric disk system uses the solenoid valve which I mentioned, run by the tug's backup lights, which are connected to it by the fifth pin (or the auxiliary pin of a six- or seven-pin connector). The issue is that if you use a four-pin, you won't have that connection. This is point 2 under "Brakes work in reverse when you donít want them to" in the page which Eddie linked.

The note from Nicholas which you (Francesca) received earlier said they had this reverse light circuit connection; the recent message says they do not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlkeigley View Post
Here's the latest low down from Lil Snoozy:
=============================
Carl,
The 4 pin is all you need. We are using a different brake set up now
that does not require the electric brake lock out, it is automatic and
releases the brakes when it senses the wheel wanting to moving in
reverse. Simpler and less maintence. Abd your camper is ready for pickup
as of today.

Thanks
Alan Smoak
To me, this means either:
  1. Snoozys now come with free-backing drum brakes, not disc; or,
  2. Smoakin' Concepts is getting a new type of reversing system which I none of us have heard of (certainly possible, I'm interested if they are, but it seems unlikely)
I note that the specs currently posted on LilSnoozy.com as standard and optional features do not mention disk brakes... or, strangely in my opinion given how much the braking system costs the manufacturer, anything about brakes at all.

Craig, perhaps could tell us what kind of brakes (disk or drum) you are getting, although of course there's no rush.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:47 PM   #76
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Good grief- the mystery deepens!

On the one hand, the Snoozy's supposed to have disc brakes-at least according to what we think we know, and which correlates with the "fifth pin override" e-mail Nicholas sent me a year and a half ago.

On the other hand, now Alan says that it has "free backing", which according to Brian's explanation only exists for drum brakes.

Today's e-mail from Alan indicates that the connection is a standard four flat, and presumably he's actually looked at it and knows for sure- but would provide no override for backing up should the brakes be disc-type.

So which is it?

Does the Snoozy have freebacking drum brakes, or no override disc brakes????

Francesca
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:59 PM   #77
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Since all mention and photos of disc brakes originally shown on their website have been removed, I'm guessing they have switched to free backing drums.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:43 PM   #78
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That (drums) would probably make it easier for them to provide the regular electric brakes with 7 pin plug that I requested.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:48 PM   #79
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Glad you're following the thread, Mike-

I couldn't remember if it was this one or the one you've got going about your cargo trailer where the "disc or drum" question came up and somebody posted that they're disc, 'cause that's what the pics on the website show.


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Old 03-27-2013, 11:44 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Mike Magee View Post
That (drums) would probably make it easier for them to provide the regular electric brakes with 7 pin plug that I requested.
Yes, except that almost any trailer axle that can use disk brakes can also use drum brakes, as just a bolt-on swap... and if you were custom-ordering, the axle would just be ordered by the chassis builder in the form desired, rather than actually converting one.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:48 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by GPJ View Post
Since all mention and photos of disc brakes originally shown on their website have been removed, I'm guessing they have switched to free backing drums.
I agree that seems most plausible.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:14 AM   #82
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I'm wondering how going from disc brakes to drum brakes can be considered "less maintenance?" Technology changes everyday, but now we're in the dark again.....lol
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:46 PM   #83
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If the changeover you refer to, Carl, is that evidently made by Snoozy, it may be that the reason for the change is due to the backing lockup problems inherent to surge-type brakes. Surge brakes are more commonly used on boat trailers, perhaps because most of the backing is down ramps! Not so with campers...

Maybe the (electric) disc brake override first supplied proved too burdensome for customers (tug wiring), so they switched to drums with the "freebacking" feature. Though why they don't just throw in the towel and put regular electric brakes on like everyone else is a mystery. (And a standard 7 pin connector with a charging line while they're at it.)

One rationale I can think of for sticking with a four-pin/surge brakes setup is that Snoozy may hope to get into the rental market, in which it would be more practical for the widest variety of potential renters.

Francesca
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:18 PM   #84
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I wish I knew about one of these models a few years ago. I may have chosen it over my Scamp just so I could transport my 4 wheeler too. I'd have to have propane stove, heat and fridge though. As side note: They seem willing to adjust the configurations of their models. The brakes should not be that much to change in cost or set up. If I had the time I could do that in a day with the parts. Surge brakes suck. I'd not use them on my own stuff.
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