Any place for a new manufacturer in the industry ? - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-26-2017, 04:44 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
...I saw a Tesla in Sebring with Ohio plates. I assumed it must have been trailered there behind a bulgemobile. How could you drive it from Ohio to Florida?...
Don't know about the East, but out here they have a network of so-called "super-charging" stations along major freeways. There's one at the Burger King in nearby Holbrook on I-40. It's pretty low key- unless you were looking for it you might not even realize it's there. Supposedly you can drive from NY to LA.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 05:06 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Name: Tom
Trailer: Sprinter 'til I buy
Denver, CO
Posts: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltP View Post
Escape puts the lie to your "drawback" comment. Escape had over a one year back-order time frame. Their solution was not to retrench but to invest in expansion and continue their very flexible build options. So far it's being very successful.

Walt
Gosh Walt, you caught me in a big 'ole lie buddy. I am so ashamed!
Let's see, on the list of innovators we have Escape.
.
On the list of non-innovators I think we have (Walt will correct me) :
Bigfoot,
Casita,
Egg Camper,
Lil Snoozy,
Lil Joe,
Oliver,
Parkliner,
Scamp,
Trillium,
Armadillo,
Happier,
Pelsue,
______
Burro,
Boler,
U-Haul,
Casita,
Scamp,
Compact (Hunter)
Amerigo,
Avion,
Beachcomber,
BIOD,
Cadet,
Captain,
Play Pac,
Ventura,
Oxygen,
Miti-Lite,
Love Bug,
Havasu,
Cloud,
Trail-Mite,
Surf-Side,
Perris Pacer
Biggar,
Companion,
Dolphin,
ECO,
EGG,
Fiber stream,
Geographic,
Gypsy,
Lander,
Liberty,
Lite House,
Minit,
MKP Grandesse,
Northern Lite,
Play-Mor,
PlayPac,
Quantum5,
Sun-Trek,
Tote n Tarry,
Campster,
Trailorboat,
UNIK,
Ventura,
Willerby,
Aalite,
Tom 72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 05:38 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Have to agree with your tongue-in-cheek comparison, Tom. Escape is very successful, but there's nothing particularly innovative about their design or methods. Time-tested approaches executed well seems to describe Escape's success. That and a favorable exchange rate.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 09:53 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
Time-tested approaches executed well seems to describe Escape's success.
As an Escape owner, I can tell you this isn't it. It's ALL about customer service and customer desires. You WANT different upholstery... you can have it. (Mine came from Hawaii). You WANT a different color Formica? You can have it. Flooring? Hey... there's the standard, but you like something else? We can do that. How about electrical stuff? Extra 12V plugs, 110 over "there". That's doable... Even the decals on the outside colors are left up to the new owner to decide. Mine are black... like a "little black dress."

We've seen "new" manufacturers to the all-molded world. But it's Escape that says... hummm, maybe... okay... let's see if this is doable. Others give you a choice. Take it or leave it.

Is my Escape perfect? Of course not. I didn't get a cabana boy! And there's no self-cleaning/waxing exterior. But I know without a doubt, my trailer was built for ME and there's not another one like it.

Love the one you're with.. make memories!
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 10:11 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Name: Daniel A.
Trailer: Bigfoot 17.0 1991 dlx
British Columbia
Posts: 741
Registry
Well said Donna, plus the build quantity is much better hence the price.

I think they took the page from Bigfoot.
Daniel A. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 10:23 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel A. View Post
Well said Donna, plus the build quantity is much better hence the price.

I think they took the page from Bigfoot.
Truth. Everything comes at a price point. I had to buy my upholstery and pay shipping from Hawaii. Plus it cost me $100 extra. So what? I'd rather have what I want.. rather than a choice of two colors/types. The same for just about every change from "standard." Everything comes with a cost. But mine is mine is mine. I couldn't be happier. Plan, budget and make your choices (no matter the brand). Make memories
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 08:11 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Steve Outlaw's Avatar
 
Trailer: Oliver
Posts: 711
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
...It's ALL about customer service and customer desires. You WANT different upholstery... you can have it....You WANT a different color Formica? You can have it. Flooring? Hey... there's the standard, but you like something else? We can do that. How about electrical stuff? Extra 12V plugs, 110 over "there". That's doable... Even the decals on the outside colors are left up to the new owner to decide.

We've seen "new" manufacturers to the all-molded world. But it's Escape that says... hummm, maybe... okay... let's see if this is doable. Others give you a choice. Take it or leave it.
...
You are correct on all counts that Escape will go above and beyond. But they are not the ONLY manufacturer that does that. Oliver has never built two trailers exactly alike due to all of the above (except they offer many colors of molded fiber-granite instead of Formica.)
__________________
Steve and Tali - Dogs: Rocky and our beloved Reacher, Storm, Maggie and Lucy (waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)
2008 Outlaw Oliver Legacy Elite & 2014 Outlaw Oliver Legacy Elite II
2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD Diesel 4x4
Steve Outlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 09:05 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Any place for a new manufacturer in the industry ?

Returning to the original question... which was about whether there is room for a new all-molded fiberglass manufacturer...

One thing all of the newer start-ups have in common is they target the middle and higher end of their respective segments.

Looking at the Happier Camper website this morning, I see the "Essential" configuration, which is closest (functionally) to a stripped Scamp 13S (minus a propane stove), sells for $23K. The Scamp- with a stove- sells for $10K. An unfinished Relic shell starts at $16K, about the same as a finished Scamp 13 deluxe. Understand, I'm not knocking either trailer- they offer much that Scamp doesn't, both in terms of design and finish. But they are unaffordable for a lot of people who would like to own an all-molded trailer.

In the mid-sized and larger segment, most Escapes approach or cross the $30K mark with options and customization. An Oliver approaches $60K. Parkliner appears to be headed the same direction with the latest redesign.

I'd love to see a new player target the entry-level market. There are those that don't need custom upholstery or fiber granite counters. (Again, I'm not knocking either of those things for those who want them and can afford them.) But what some need is a simple, durable alternative to a budget sticky or tent trailer, something that can be towed by a vehicle with a 3500 pound tow rating, something that offers family-friendly layouts as well as set-ups for couples.

To accomplish that and challenge Scamp, they'd really have to focus on the manufacturing process, keeping costs down without sacrificing the benefits of an all-molded shell. Scamp has the advantage of having long amortized its start-up expenses. Is it possible? I don't know, but I'd like to think so.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 09:39 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
I 100% agree with you Jon. I've never considered an entry-level trailer to be "less than," no one makes fewer memories just because their trailer was less expensive or smaller. The color of the Formica in my 5er doesn't make it work any better than a standard color Formica.

I'm actually encouraging my daughter and SIL to purchase an enclosed utility trailer. We can buy used RV windows locally for pretty cheap. They're easier to insulate and finish on the inside because of having mostly flat walls. Fold down bunks for sleeping. Using gas portable stoves and propane lanterns. A wide-entry rear door for loading all the bicycles. I think they'd have a blast! They asked if they could buy my Scamp. I said No. They have four little girls under age 5! Talk about sleeping in an egg carton....
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 10:33 AM   #30
Commercial Member
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: Boler13/trillium4500/buro13
Ontario
Posts: 1,138
Jon while I would dispute your figures relating to our trailer most of what you say i agree with as it really is an apple to oranges comparison. When we started with our idea to build a new trailer it was just like you said as we were going to try to build the cheapest fg trailer we could . Our plan was to build a cheap trailer we could use for rental use and make available to those with lesser means. A couple of important things we learned on the way and which most other manufacturers would agree is that building a fg trailer is hard to mass produce and also there has been a lot of innovations and products available now that we're not available to earlier manufactures.
Another thing that that matters to to people when they are looking to buy a new trailer is the "wow" factor and the "wow" cost more, I think many newer campers are looking for that and are willing to pay extra for it.
Mikmay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 08:36 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikmay View Post
Jon while I would dispute your figures relating to our trailer most of what you say i agree with as it really is an apple to oranges comparison. When we started with our idea to build a new trailer it was just like you said as we were going to try to build the cheapest fg trailer we could . Our plan was to build a cheap trailer we could use for rental use and make available to those with lesser means. A couple of important things we learned on the way and which most other manufacturers would agree is that building a fg trailer is hard to mass produce and also there has been a lot of innovations and products available now that we're not available to earlier manufactures.
Another thing that that matters to to people when they are looking to buy a new trailer is the "wow" factor and the "wow" cost more, I think many newer campers are looking for that and are willing to pay extra for it.
I do hear what you say about the challenges of manufacturing a low-cost molded fiberglass trailer. I followed your posts on the HC1 design as well as Robert Johan's Nest design, so I have some idea of the process. I have tremendous respect for the work done and the end product that resulted. Neither, of course, ended up being an attempt to target the budget-oriented market.

My intention in mentioning prices was simply to point out the large gap, price-wise, between Scamp and the newer, upscale 13' designs. It is not to say that either is a bad value. As to the "wow" factor, the amount of attention my Scamp gets on the road is an indication that it is an attractive design in its own right, even if it doesn't rise to the "wow" level.

If Scamp can sustainably manufacture and sell a very basic but fully functional all-molded trailer for a little over $10K, I'd like to believe that someone else could at least come close to that price point. But perhaps not. Neither Escape nor Casita found it advantageous to stay in the small, entry-level market, and they already had the molds. Maybe there will never be another Scamp. If so, I say "Long live Scamp," because for many like myself, it is our entry point into the world of all-molded fiberglass towables.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 10:38 AM   #32
Senior Member
 
Alf S.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 2007 19 ft Escape 5.0 / 2002 GMC (1973 Boler project)
Posts: 4,148
Registry
Send a message via Yahoo to Alf S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
As an Escape owner, I can tell you this isn't it. It's ALL about customer service and customer desires. You WANT different upholstery... you can have it. (Mine came from Hawaii). You WANT a different color Formica? You can have it. Flooring? Hey... there's the standard, but you like something else? We can do that. How about electrical stuff? Extra 12V plugs, 110 over "there". That's doable... Even the decals on the outside colors are left up to the new owner to decide. Mine are black... like a "little black dress."

We've seen "new" manufacturers to the all-molded world. But it's Escape that says... hummm, maybe... okay... let's see if this is doable. Others give you a choice. Take it or leave it.

Is my Escape perfect? Of course not. I didn't get a cabana boy! And there's no self-cleaning/waxing exterior. But I know without a doubt, my trailer was built for ME and there's not another one like it.

Love the one you're with.. make memories!
Hi: Donna D... Gee... I got a "Self cleaning" Escape. If I want it cleaned I do it... Myself!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
Alf S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 10:45 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
Alf S.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 2007 19 ft Escape 5.0 / 2002 GMC (1973 Boler project)
Posts: 4,148
Registry
Send a message via Yahoo to Alf S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
I 100% agree with you Jon. I've never considered an entry-level trailer to be "less than," no one makes fewer memories just because their trailer was less expensive or smaller. The color of the Formica in my 5er doesn't make it work any better than a standard color Formica.

I'm actually encouraging my daughter and SIL to purchase an enclosed utility trailer. We can buy used RV windows locally for pretty cheap. They're easier to insulate and finish on the inside because of having mostly flat walls. Fold down bunks for sleeping. Using gas portable stoves and propane lanterns. A wide-entry rear door for loading all the bicycles. I think they'd have a blast! They asked if they could buy my Scamp. I said No. They have four little girls under age 5! Talk about sleeping in an egg carton....
Hi: Donna D... Meanie!!! Nothing wrong with a carton of grade A small eggs!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
Alf S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 10:53 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
francene's Avatar
 
Trailer: 13 ft Compact II
Posts: 524
Registry
Donna,
Why do you have two trailers?

If the priority is to get out there and make memories, a Scamp 16 can do that for your daughter and SIL. Sounds like they're willing.


Just my 2 cents. ;-)

Fran
francene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 11:27 AM   #35
Senior Member
 
BatDude's Avatar
 
Name: Bat Dude
Trailer: Escape
Michigan
Posts: 347
up sizing options?

Long list of FB trailers!

Still trying to determine what the next size up (from 16' Scamp) might be for us. Parkliner web site only lists smaller units and Escape looks like a long long wait for a new one.

WOW factor aside, the old Form Follows Function design concept is still high on our list for a FB trailer that we can pull.
__________________
Conservation biologist specializing in bats. Now stepping aside from paid $ bat work and just Escaping, painting and mentoring grad students
BatDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 11:53 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
Name: Huck
Trailer: ParkLiner
Virginia
Posts: 852
Two things I want in a fbg trailer:
  • Bed that folds away into a couch (without having to remove bedding).
  • Fairly inexpensive 700 watts of solar panels and batteries.
One thing fbg manufactures should do is look at tiny houses and see if some on the innovation there can be brought into tiny trailers. It's really a shame to waste half the trailer on a bed that is used about 1/3 of the day.
Huck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 12:46 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by francene View Post
Donna,
Why do you have two trailers?

If the priority is to get out there and make memories, a Scamp 16 can do that for your daughter and SIL. Sounds like they're willing.
Fran
I've owned the 16' Scamp since 2002. I bought the Escape 5.0TA in 2014.

The Scamp is too small for six people (and six bicycles!). I've got it setup to sleep 3, but it's perfect for one!
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 03:09 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatDude View Post
A honeycomb approach with two thin CF layers with a matrix of insulation would be very strong and light, albeit more costly.
Bonair Oxygen was innovative in its time.
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 05:32 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
Name: Steve
Trailer: Scamp 13
California
Posts: 1,890
Carbon fiber is out, there is no good use for it in a composites trailer. Strength to weight is not an issue. Your not only adding to the cost of the fiber but also the move to epoxy resins which will add further costs. There just isnt a good cost to structural use benefit.

The reason you see new larger trailers being built is the sales profit to manufacturing costs offset. Once you start getting over 25 employees the cost to support the employees goes way up. With composite trailers you are dealing with chemicals and there are specific and expensive costs for training, medical watch for employee's health and environmental and hazardous waste issues to be dealt with. These are all costs that newer, bigger and prettier trailers have to pay for.

The margins are not there for 13 foot trailers to foot the bill. Most of the smaller trailers are limited by employee numbers. A small shop with monthly safety meetings, hazardous waste control, and workman's comp insurance can be handled in house with current staff.

Once you go over a certain level of employees you need expensive people to support the added employees. A safety training supervisor, and environmental person, and personnel director another person or service for payroll it just keeps growing. Then you go from made to order, to inventory supply and sales staff and boom your in another whole realm of costs with office and staff to support the effort.

There are a whole lot more reasons to keep small with a process that keeps the shop busy, sales at max and a profit margin under control.
stevebaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 06:46 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Kai in Seattle's Avatar
 
Name: Kathleen (Kai: ai as in wait)
Trailer: Amerigo FG-16 1973 "Peanut"
Greater Seattle Metropolitan Area, Washington
Posts: 2,566
Registry
What I've thought about doing is buy a nice heavy-duty frame from Harbor Freight. Then get a weather balloon and blow it up while laying on the frame. Then fiberglass the heck out of it from the outside. THEN cut a doorway, some cute porthole windows, and finish it up inside and out. Talk about making it your own--and DIY!
__________________
Semper ubi sub ubi.
Kai in Seattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
relic


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Even the RV Industry Knows They Have PROBLEMS! vintageracer Money Matters 67 06-14-2018 09:08 AM
Layoffs in the RV Industry Donna D. General Chat 23 03-07-2012 10:27 PM
Any Pictures of Boler Manufacturer in the 1970s? Perry Mac Donald General Chat 2 06-28-2010 06:27 AM
The RV Industry: Running on Empty Donna D. General Chat 17 06-22-2008 12:49 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.