Are Stick Built Small RVs going to kill fiberglass RVs?

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

Gee! My opinion is now a "Gauntlet"!...

A gauntlet is an opinion in block caps...

[BAMA & Pachyderm Posse]

Are Stick Built Small RVs going to kill fiberglass RVs? "NOT AT THIS TIME "

[Uplander]

YDex, You have opened a can of worms. This is the official true believers site for molded fiberglass trailers. Most if not all here have closed their eyes in the presence of the Stick-Built travel trailer.

Fact: both fiberglass and stick-built have their issues....in the end the trailer's size, layout and weight are the deciding factors...but cost vs benefits also weigh heavily in anyone's final choice.

Fact: Molded fiberglass trailers cost more...why ?....simple their construction takes more time and time is money. Ther are additional costs involved due to the nature of fiberglass. I have been to manufacturing facilities using fiberglass and Kevlar and the atmosphere is toxic even with high tech air exchange systems. The product continues releasing toxic gases long after the molding process is completed. The very nature of the material adds to the cost of production.

To my knowledge the fiberglass trailer industry does not offer slide outs.

If you plan on full timing consider the size carefully. Too small and you will be trading up very quickly. Consider bathroom space. Most travel trailers come up short offering very cramped space in the bathroom.
Also picture yourself trapped in a small trailer for several days in very bad weather. You will need comfortable seating for reading and television viewing.
Space is important...visit RV shows and dealerships and study layouts. Find the right one the first time (if you are lucky).

Whenever you look at a stick built trailer ask what the wall and roof framing is made of...wood studs (not good) or metal stud framing using welds (the best).
Study the kitchen layout and counter space for cooking...most RV kitchens make me crazy (yes even mine).

I have been RVing for over 30 years and still have not found the perfect layout...I keep getting closer and closer but as they say.."size matters".

If you put enough planning into your final selection you will be a Happy Camper !

[wlknthewoods]

Vintageracer is spot on. There will always be a niche for molded fiberglass ordered from the small factory but with manufacturers listening and improving small lightweight trailers with so many amenities it is only a matter of time until that niche dwindles. One manufacturer uses no wood in their units now and they make quite a variety of units. Everyone wants to make some mods to make their unit their own but at this stage, no one should have to make mods to have their tanks drain or not back up in the shower, etc. All units should have a monitor for tank levels. Mods shouldn't have to be done to keep rain from flowing between the awning and the unit. Come on...there must be some updates or price adjustment to continue to compete.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Uplander

This is the official true believers site for molded fiberglass trailers. Most if not all here have closed their eyes in the presence of the Stick-Built travel trailer.

This is not really the case at all, at least as I see it. The members here are definitely ones that believe in the values of a moulded fibreglass trailer, thus the purchase of one. But, it is not at all done with closed eyes, and for most the comparisons were made, resulting in their choice. As well, I would bet the majority owned conventionally (for lack of a better word) built trailers, and found a reason they wanted to migrate to the moulded ones.

I had two previous trailers before my Escape 19, a Coleman tent trailer, and a Terry 24' stick build. I do not regret owning them one bit. They both served their purpose at the time.

We wanted to sell the 24' bunk model, as kids were no longer with us, and the bed was terrible, a fold down couch. I did lots of research, looking for something just the right size for use, which meant smaller. This search eventually led me to our moulded trailers. Long story short, it was not long after I settled on finding the right FG trailer, that Escape announced their idea for a new 19, and I was all over it. My wife's only criteria was a permanent bed, and a pot to pee in during the night. It served us great for over 6 years, and after seeing just how great this moulded fibreglass trailer worked for us, and the quality of the trailer and the company behind it, we yearned for, and now have put a deposit on, the Escape 5.0TA.

I tell this story to show that I do not have blinders on with regards to our precious moulded fibreglass trailers, it was a well thought out path that got me here.

As far a most folks here being huge supporters of moulded fibreglass trailers, well, it was the intended purpose for the starting of the site, to be a resourse for others that too are interested in these trailers.

[accrete]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I believe the original point had to do with small towables comparable in size and weight to molded fiberglass offerings...Much as we'd like to think so here, molded fiberglass construction is not for everyone.

: ) On the "Molded Fiberglass" idea.

I'm a nearing 60 guy who grew up living nearly every weekend on our family fiberglass sailboat (1968 build date) that had been sailed over from England by the original owner and sold to my dad in 1972, It was a beauty. Gleaming WHITENESS of gel coated fiberglass outside AND inside. Just about the only wood inside were doors to cupboards and below seating hatches-to-storage areas. And of course the Teak floors and cockpit sole. And all interior items were fiberglassed to the interior of the hull...not a rivet in sight ; )

Fast forward to 1974, my dad, who was a Professor at U.C. Berkeley in the 60's through 70's (then onto U.C. Davis into late 1980's) was good friends with another Professor. This fellow had a 41ft fg sailboat and my dad and I were going to be part of the upcoming 1975 transpac race crew from San Francisco to Hawaii and then cruise back to S.F. One thing I really didn't like was when I went down below in his boat there was little if any fiberglass. The manufacturer had epoxied wood stringers onto the interior of the hull and built traditional wood cabinetry and furniture. It just didn't seem to me like a sailboat, more like a home in a hull.

Why do I mention that? Well, for my taste, and fun memories, when I looked in the various molded fg trailers, I ruled out all that had the later type of interior. With my love of fiberglass, gleaming, sparkling gel coated beautiness, I wanted as little wood as possible.

Personal taste, I know.
White is one of my favorite colors
...but I wear camo,
; ) Thom

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Every year we hear the hyped latest-and-greatest RV technology. And 3-5 years later we hear about its shortcomings...

Originally Posted by wlknthewoods

...One manufacturer uses no wood in their units now and they make quite a variety of units...

I can't be sure which manufacturer you are referring to, but one that meets your description is Livin' Lite. I really wanted to like their product and gave it serious consideration before settling on my Scamp. At the time I was leaning toward a tent trailer, so I looked at their offerings carefully. Later they introduced their line of travel trailers and I looked at them as well. Much as I wanted to like them (for some of the reasons already mentioned, like space, amenities, layout, no wood, as well as just being new and innovative), I passed for several reasons: (1) they were expensive and no real used market yet, (2) tent fabric was flimsy & would not stand up to our winds in the SW, (3) aluminum is a great conductor of heat, so cold at night and hot during the day (not a great characteristic in the desert), and (4) fit and finish were poor- lots of rough edges. This independent manufacturer won awards for innovation when it first came out, but the shortcomings are only now being revealed through on-line RV forums. It was bought out by Thor in 2013, so now it's one of the "big boys."

Originally Posted by Uplander

...This is the official true believers site for molded fiberglass trailers. Most if not all here have closed their eyes in the presence of the Stick-Built travel trailer...

The second statement does not follow from the first. Like Jim, I have previously owned conventional stickies, and (as mentioned) I gave very serious consideration to an unconventional sticky, the Livin' Lite, before I purchased my Scamp. Based on experience with both build types, conventional construction is going to have to demonstrate that it has changed before I'll go there again. I'm not saying I never will, but I need to be convinced, not by sales pitches or engineering cutaways, but by long-term durability and resale value. So ask me again in 15 years.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by accrete

: )
Why do I mention that? Well, for my taste, and fun memories, when I looked in the various molded fg trailers, I ruled out all that had the later type of interior. With my love of fiberglass, gleaming, sparkling gel coated beautiness, I wanted as little wood as possible.

Personal taste, I know.
White is one of my favorite colors
...but I wear camo,
; ) Thom

These individual tastes are what provide multiple options. For me, I love colour, and would love to have a colourful interior. I do love wood too, and love wood interiors. In fact, a blend of my favourite colours, along with my favourite wood species would be fantastic. I would love a burnt orange interior with cherry cabinets, but this does not seem to be offered anywhere.

I am not a fan of pure white, to me it seems institutional, BUT I have a few customers that do like it, and are very pleased with the results we gave them. This is obviously a choice of quite a few.

There are a couple moulded fibreglass trailer offering this white interior, are there any non-FG trailers doing so?

It is nice that there are these differing preferences with folks, otherwise if we all looked the same, and owned things all finished the same, whatever that was would become drab.

[Cathy P.]

If one wants a good stick-built, Taylor Coach is the way to go according to my research. They are done to order, have sold out of this model year about 5 or 6 months ago and coming soon with an anniversary model. I have seen older ones on the internet and they appear to hold up. This is a small manufacturer in Canada and small manufacturers have to pay more for the components that they install in a unit. All orders are custom. I worked in the office of New Horizons just after they opened, 5 star fifth wheels, family owned & operated and at that time all units were custom, when the company sold, it became an entire different animal.

Cost is important to a lot of people as is space.

[Uplander]

Jim Bennett, Noticed you tow with a Ford 150 EcoBoost. I have often wondered about this model. Is it a V6 ? What is it rated to tow ?...easier to ask you than to go to a Ford dealer and deal with a sales guy.

Also since you live in Alberta and own a new Escape 5.0....are there dealers for the product in Alberta or did you have to go to the factory ?
My interest in Fiberglass travel trailers is diminished by their lack of a dealer network in the USA and because of their lack of market penetration and ergo lack of used inventory for sale I fell I may never see one or have the opturnity to purchase one used. I have never bought a new travel trailer but have been lucky enough to find plenty of used conventional Travel Trailers over the last 30+ years.

I credit the Huge Supply of lightly used units to the mistakes first time buyers make in their selection. I owned my first one for one season...realized it was too small for my family and found another almost new in a few days that was much larger. Now that I am both retired and wiser with the kids gone our needs have again changed. The Bigfoot 5th wheel seems like a good choice but the asking price new is overwhelming.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Uplander

...The Bigfoot 5th wheel seems like a good choice but the asking price new is overwhelming.

Perhaps you meant Escape…? Bigfoot hasn't made a fifth wheel for quite a few years. If so, a base price of under $25K USD hardly seems overwhelming. The long wait is harder to swallow.

[Uplander]

I did mean Escape 5th wheel....and at $25,000 that is overwhelming if you consider I can buy a quality lightly used conventional 5th wheel via craigslist in my area for as little as $5,000 to $9,000 on any given day. I never buy new.

[Lee Senn]

The opening post by Dex indicates one very important reason why stickies won't replace our fiberglass trailers. The trailers used as examples have "dry weights" of 3000 lbs and 3800 lbs respectively. This relegates buyers to vehicles with 5000 lb tow ratings. Many of us in the fiberglass realm want or need to tow with the family vehicle and not very many family vehicles have a 5000 lb tow rating ( admittedly there are some "family" vehicles with a 5000 lb tow rating but they are usually priced way above my pay grade ). I do realize that some of the fg trailers fall into the higher weight range but there are many fg trailers that don't require a 5000 lb rated tug. Also just an aside, the trailer referenced on page one of the thread as a 17B must be at least 21 ft in length. If you look at the interior pictures it becomes obvious that this isn't a 17 foot trailer. Lee

[Timber Wolf]

In response to the OP's question, not really. The stickies fit a similar, but different niche in the market. I love my Scamp, and really got lucky finding it first before a suitable stickie came along. Now that "I know better" an FGRV is all I want, but there are certainly some head-turning stickies out there. We went to a smallish RV show this past weekend as my daughter has been wanting to see what the inside of motorhomes and 5th wheels looked like. I must say SOME of the units looked pretty good, and some left me wondering who would buy such. The salesmen moved off quickly when I said we currently had a Scamp, guess they knew they weren't going to sell me.

[lwehrly]

Ok, Im going to jump in here with my personal views. I don't think the new rvs are going to run the fiberglass out of business, but I also don't think that the fiberglass trailers will go out of business. People have so many different ideas of what they like, what they will do with the campers and how long they want to keep them. I am the proud owner of a 13' Honey that needs a lot of work, but I don't have time right now. I think it meets my needs for future camping. That said, I have camped in a 14' stickie (1974 Aristocrat lo-liner) That was perfect for 2 adults and a preteen. I've lived in a 24' stickie (1968 Aloha travel trailer) which worked for 2 adults and 3 kids trying to attend school and work. I traveled in a 24' stickie MotorHome (1990 Ford Jamboree, which was fully self contained and had a layout perfect for taking along my elderly Mom and her dogs. Tomorrow I take will pick up a brand new Salem CruiseLite 180BH. This trailer has room for grown kids and the amenities I've come to desire, a good bed, and a bathroom. All of these choices reflect my needs at the time. My considerations were available vehicle to tow, how many kids I needed to fit, how many adults needed to fit, how long I would have the trailer, what my husband thought, how many dogs I have, and how much I was willing to tow or drive. The cost is a factor of course, and so are some of the design features in the trailers. The idea of "rat fur" is not appealing to me. It just seems like something else to get damp and mold. (my honey has ensolite) If you shop around and get a trailer at the right time of year, the stickies can be bought at a cheaper price, while fiberglass just doesn't seem to ever devalue! That's great if you're selling but not always good if you are buying. I also love the clean bright whiteness in most fiberglass trailers, but liked the old birchwood paneling as well. There are definitely advantages to both and we have to figure out what fits our needs. So, I think we will always have both. And I love viewing them all!

[Jimp]

I agree whole hearted ! I'm now traveling as a single , & find my 13 Scamp to be perfect . When I'm ready to sell , I'll have no problem .

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Lee Senn

...the trailer referenced on page one of the thread as a 17B must be at least 21 ft in length. If you look at the interior pictures it becomes obvious that this isn't a 17 foot trailer.

I believe conventional manufacturers commonly designate models by cabin length, not overall length, as molded fiberglass manufacturers do. The Camplite 14DB, for example, has a box length of 15' and an overall length of nearly 19'. Go figure.

You have to be careful when making direct comparisons.

To illustrate the difference, an Escape 19 is about a foot longer than the aluminum and composite Camplite 14DB. The Escape has a base dry weight of 2600#, while the smaller Camplite has a base dry weight of 3100#. Prices are comparable in the mid $20K range USD. One difference is you can have a Camplite today.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Uplander

Jim Bennett, Noticed you tow with a Ford 150 EcoBoost. I have often wondered about this model. Is it a V6 ? What is it rated to tow ?...easier to ask you than to go to a Ford dealer and deal with a sales guy.

Also since you live in Alberta and own a new Escape 5.0....are there dealers for the product in Alberta or did you have to go to the factory ?
My interest in Fiberglass travel trailers is diminished by their lack of a dealer network in the USA and because of their lack of market penetration and ergo lack of used inventory for sale I fell I may never see one or have the opturnity to purchase one used. I have never bought a new travel trailer but have been lucky enough to find plenty of used conventional Travel Trailers over the last 30+ years.

I credit the Huge Supply of lightly used units to the mistakes first time buyers make in their selection. I owned my first one for one season...realized it was too small for my family and found another almost new in a few days that was much larger. Now that I am both retired and wiser with the kids gone our needs have again changed. The Bigfoot 5th wheel seems like a good choice but the asking price new is overwhelming.

For starters, I will be towing with my truck, once I get 5.0 TA in late May.

The tow capacity of my truck for conventional bumper pull is 11,700, and for a fifith wheel 10,100.

Like my 19 before, I bought right from the factory, direct selling is all they do new.

I very much agree about there being a heck of a lot of used trailers for sale, especially stick built, by people who bought mostly on a whim thinking it would be a good idea, only to find out it is not their cup of tea. I always have said that if someone wants to find a good deal on a used trailer, to advertise at one of the many storage lots full of them.

I do agree with Jon though, that the price of a new Escape 5.0TA is not that overwhelming at all, especially from the viewpoint of you all south of the 49th. While not cheap at all, I do consider it to have good value, thus my decision to purchase.

[Jon in AZ]

Reflecting on alternative materials in non-molded fiberglass trailers…

One of the very best trailers I've ever owned was a 1974 24' Holiday Rambler: aluminum superstructure and siding, plastic honeycomb cabinetry and paneling, enclosed underbelly, ducted heat, jalousie windows all around, excellent fit and finish, very comfortable layout with twin beds, dry bath, tons of storage, and a large L-shaped kitchen. High tech for its day, there was no wood above the floor. It was 12 years old when I bought it for $2500, tight and leak-free, mechanically perfect. Everything ran like a top for the three years it was my very comfortable home.

But it took a 3/4 ton truck to move it. I never towed it, nor would I want to. Used it as a park model.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

But it took a 3/4 ton truck to move it. I never towed it, nor would I want to. Used it as a park model.

Other than two short holidays, and a couple trips to friends properties, our 24' Terry bunk model was just a cabin on our rec land, though did get lots of use there. I had a 3/4 ton, just did not prefer to tow it around a lot.