Are Stick Built Small RVs going to kill fiberglass RVs?

[Rzrbrn]

I don't consider my 2013 17' Casita Spirit, which I bought new, to be particularly well built; Oliver, Big Foot, and perhaps the Escape may be of higher quality, not sure, and I do like their floor plans and size. I don't much care for the "wood" cabinet doors in the Casita, etc. I would prefer a Nylon plastic door; lighter and stronger.

I think it is too small and cramped. But it is heads and shoulders above the construction methods used in other travel trailers on the market. I looked at them all: Livin Lite (shoddy construction and , frankly, depressing), Air Stream (also rather poorly constructed, if you look up close and personal, as they say. I was very surprised), wood framed like the NASH, Jayco upscale and lower end models, the list goes on. Perhaps it is the type of construction that results in the pathetic craftsmanship, fit and finish of these trailers. I was an RV salesman for a while and know what to look for.

The only non fiberglass trailer I will consider at this point is the Lance travel trailer, but I prefer the true fiberglass trailer.

My wife really likes our Casita. We are old Boy Scouters; slept in tents while the boys were growing up, and she says the Casita is a big step up. I do like the way it tows, and we rarely spend more than 4 or 5 days in one spot. So I will be keeping it for the foreseeable future...at least until I can ease my wife into something bigger.

Motorhomes and travel trailers LOOK better now than they did 20 or thirty years ago, but much of that is only skin deep. When I was a kid if you bought a new car you expected to have it back to the dealership for repair and adjustments, immediately. The RV industry is where the auto industry was in the 60's and 70's.

Even the Casita had the TV mount on backwards, which I fixed myself (but that was the only thing wrong with it).

I am waiting for someone to 3-D print a travel trailer...

[steve dunham]

We own a 17 ft Casita and are generally happy with it except that it is too small and lacks storage space. We are looking for a larger trailer but the choices in larger molded fiberglass trailers are very limited. Between the high cost of fiberglass trailers , long delivery times, lack of local dealers , limited floor plans and fewer amenities
a standard trailer is probably in our future . We are approaching 70 so the supposed longer life of a fiberglass trailer is not that big of a factor .I agree that the guilty of a standard trailer is nothing to brag about but neither is the quality of many fiberglass trailers.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Uplander

...To my knowledge the fiberglass trailer industry does not offer slide outs...

How's this?

Not mine… it happened to pop up in the random gallery shots at the top of my screen.

[Donna D.]

That slide Scamp is/was Frank's Big Red. Frank sold it years ago, said he never could get it to stop leaking. Wonder if the new owner did....

[Roger H]

Wow... haven't seen THAT one in a long time! As Donna can attest, it used to be a regular 'round here!

[accrete]

a thought on "Size"... when I was researching the Olivers, isn't the ~23 footer's "box" actually more like ? ~17 feet from front to back walls? And the tongue box/hitch take up the rest? If so, that makes the Olivers ~3ft shorter box than what most in the m-fg industry would be?

Thom

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by Uplander

YDex, You have opened a can of worms. This is the official true believers site for molded fiberglass trailers. Most if not all here have closed their eyes in the presence of the Stick-Built travel trailer.

Fact: both fiberglass and stick-built have their issues....in the end the trailer's size, layout and weight are the deciding factors...but cost vs benefits also weigh heavily in anyone's final choice.

To my knowledge the fiberglass trailer industry does not offer slide outs.

If you plan on full timing consider the size carefully. Too small and you will be trading up very quickly. Consider bathroom space. Most travel trailers come up short offering very cramped space in the bathroom.
Also picture yourself trapped in a small trailer for several days in very bad weather. You will need comfortable seating for reading and television viewing.
Space is important...visit RV shows and dealerships and study layouts. Find the right one the first time (if you are lucky).

Whenever you look at a stick built trailer ask what the wall and roof framing is made of...wood studs (not good) or metal stud framing using welds (the best).
Study the kitchen layout and counter space for cooking...most RV kitchens make me crazy (yes even mine).

MY favorite trailer is still a stick built trailer. It had a better layout than any fiberglass trailer I've seen. It was particularly clever in that it's gray tank was centered between the floor and axle, it's fresh water tank was over the axle on one side and it's black water tank over the axle on the other side. Just a real clean design with opening windows on four sides. We even had a real shower in it.

As to RV kitchens, our Scamp 16 layout 4 has abundant counter space, similar to an Escape 21 in area.

After some 3000 days on the road, I can't say I ever had "a trapped feeling" during bad weather. Pretend you're 16 and by some twist of fate you're in a small space with your girlfriend for a few days. Would you have felt trapped, even without a TV?

One year we spent 310 days in our Scamp. I have never felt more space was necessary. I do know some feel that way, but I also know it;s very possible to be blissfully happy in a Scamp 16. As well every time I hear Floyd of this forum speak, I know he's fully satisfied in his Scamp 13.

One last comment on 'ratfur' Our Scamp is now 25 years old, It has the original Marine Fabric and it's still in great condition. It doesn't get moldy. We always seem to like to knock things but I feel it was an excellent choice by Scamp.

[Roger H]

Since 1980, I've had eleven fiberglass trailers; five scamps, two Bigfoot trailers, and one each of U-Haul, Burro, Trillium, and a Love Bug II. I've also had six Airstreams from an original '61 Bambi 16' through the 34' tri-axle two door and a 325 motorhome. I've also had two Born Free motorhomes (currently a 32' rear queen) and two B-vans, an Airstream and currently a '95 Coachmen. I recently sold a 2011 MPG model 184 19' "stickie" that I bought new. I had the Bigfoot 25 for nine years and bought it new in '06.

Next to the Born Free motorhomes, the next best quality of construction of all the trailers I owned I think was the MPG 19'. Probably the worst was the Love Bug II fiberglass trailer. Airstreams are unique, and in the '50s and 60s they were as high tech as money could buy. Today they're still unique, but they have a host of issues, even at the price point they come in at.

Fiberglass trailers are great, but they tend not to have much storage or large enough beds or baths to really be comfortable.

I'm at a point today where a motorhome fits my needs much better than a trailer. Trailers are great if you stop for four or five days at a destination and stay there. I used mine for travel, not destination recreation, and a motorhome is a lot easier to do that in.

My point is that everyone has different needs, and their needs change with children, pets, and the way they travel. For some folks, the small fiberglass trailers are "it." For some, they're "it" for a while and they they outgrow them or their travel needs change. There will always be a market for them, but there will always be a market for innovative and price-point "stickies" as well as mohos. Having sampled many of them at one time or another, I'm glad that we have choices.

[brian m.]

Lance Trailers are aluminum framed, no wood.

Lance 1685 Travel Trailer - If you're looking for more living space and storage the 1685 was made for you.

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi All,

WOW, I just finished reading this thread. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading it and it epitomizes why I like FiberglassRV.com!!!

I spent 14 months researching RVs and the lifestyle before "The Bug" enticed me to make the plunge and buy our '05 Casita 17' FD. We are newbies. Since it was delivered to us in November, it has not been out of the driveway yet, but it has seen some serious "butt" time and we have big plans for 2016! My DW and I determined that our critical variables for our first RV were:

1. Small
2. Used
3. Price point
4. Durability
5. A spot for a "permanent" bed.
6. Bathroom

Based on the above. Very happy with our choice at this point.

My brother now has the bug and is looking at new/newer stickies at $15,000 (purchase price) or under, under 25', under 4,000 lbs, dry bath, and walk around bed. We have had many discussions about FG rigs, but there is not really anything that meets his needs based on the above.

So, in terms of the OP, I think there will continue to be a market for FG rigs even with "improvements" in design, etc. with stickies because of buyers like my brother and I. I looked at nearly every sticky produced. I was smitten with Taylor coaches. Love Brad Taylor's videos. Love the customization. But, if we there is small niche market for FG rigs, there is really a small niche for cottage made TTs like Brad's (used ones are nearly nonexistent). However, I ultimately put my money down on FG. I prefer FG rigs; my brother prefers stickies.

Hey, I hope that our Casita takes us to retirement in 9.5 years. Many would say that we could end up with three trailers during that time frame. Retirement will bring the opportunity for serious reflection since we will have the freedom to travel more: stay with a Casita; get that new Ollie, BF, or Escape; or restore an Avion/Airstream; new Airstream; or, perhaps a svelte Class C/B+? In any case, I think we will continue to stay on the smaller side of RVing (25' and under).

Speaking of smaller. I think the small trailer market will be hotly contested for the foreseeable future. I think there are more folks out there that value small (tiny houses, smaller carbon footprint, sustainability, even simpler, etc.). Based on this, I think FG rigs and their advantages will keep them relevant for years. But, there will be improvements in design, execution, and options for the mass produced stickies as well. I even think that the push for smaller trailers that will result in innovation in mass produced stickies will even push the tried & true FG formula that has been slower to change for a variety of reasons (success, economy of scale, etc.).

My thoughts from a newbie that has little practice at RVing, but lots of enthusiasm!

Dean

[BarbieB]

Check out Helio and Alto trailers....just saw these at the Montreal RV show....they were cute and interesting!

[Roger H]

Originally Posted by DeanCHS1980

Hi All,

WOW, I just finished reading this thread. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading it and it epitomizes why I like FiberglassRV.com!!!

Hey, I hope that our Casita takes us to retirement in 9.5 years. Many would say that we could end up with three trailers during that time frame. Retirement will bring the opportunity for serious reflection since we will have the freedom to travel more: stay with a Casita; get that new Ollie, BF, or Escape; or restore an Avion/Airstream; new Airstream; or, perhaps a svelte Class C/B+? In any case, I think we will continue to stay on the smaller side of RVing (25' and under).

My thoughts from a newbie that has little practice at RVing, but lots of enthusiasm!

Dean

If you read my post above, you'll see that I've got some pretty extensive experience with various sized trailers and motorhomes. I have found that in a trailer, 25' is the magic length for two. In a motorhome, it's 32'. In a trailer, that's large enough to put everything you need in. You can have a walk-around queen bed. It's light enough to tow, and is no more difficult to tow than a 16'. It has enough living space not to be cramped, and will maneuver easily and fit in any campground. They're usually light enough to be towed with a half-ton truck or van. Simply put, it's very close to being the ideal size.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by accrete

a thought on "Size"... when I was researching the Olivers, isn't the ~23 footer's "box" actually more like ? ~17 feet from front to back walls? And the tongue box/hitch take up the rest? If so, that makes the Olivers ~3ft shorter box than what most in the m-fg industry would be?

Thom

That's interesting, Thom. Oliver does seem to have an overbuilt frame with a longer tongue and rear bumper overhang. I suppose the double hull detracts further from interior cabin length. I wouldn't have thought 6', though.

Here's something interesting I found when I visited a few websites. All of the molded fiberglass manufacturers designate their models by overall length. Airstream does the same. Most are forthright about it in the specs, giving both overall length and interior cabin length. But two did not... Oliver and Airstream.

[Rzrbrn]

Roger, thanks for your last post. I have minimal experience, that is, this Casita is my first RV. You have added validation to my current thoughts on optimal length of a TT.

[jon carpenter]

My wife and I were recently at a large RV/Camping store and had some time to kill so we checked out some of the non-egg campers....5th wheels, TT, Class A, etc. We thought we might be looking for something different than our Casita in the future and wanted to see how these are constructed, pricing, floor plan options, etc. What a HUGE eye opener. We were appalled how cheaply these are assembled and when we looked UNDER the units, there are pieces of plastic coated cardboard and fiber mesh covering the underside between the frame rails. These areas are just waiting for mice, rats and squirrels to build new condos and raise their families. We walked away and felt happy our little egg has no openings or holes for rodents to build a nest. We'll stick with eggs...maybe a little bigger, but still an egg!
jon

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

That's interesting, Thom. Oliver does seem to have an overbuilt frame with a longer tongue and rear bumper overhang. I suppose the double hull detracts further from interior cabin length. I wouldn't have thought 6', though.

Here's something interesting I found when I visited a few websites. All of the molded fiberglass manufacturers designate their models by overall length. Airstream does the same. Most are forthright about it in the specs, giving both overall length and interior cabin length. But two did not... Oliver and Airstream.

The Oliver website shows the dimension of the exterior trailer body as 18 ft so the interior dimension may well be in the 17 ft range.
That works out to about $3000 per ft of trailer length

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The Oliver website shows the dimension of the exterior trailer body as 18 ft so the interior dimension may well be in the 17 ft range.

That works out to about $3000 per ft of trailer length

Missed that... Thanks, Steve.

[Carol and Mike]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

That's interesting, Thom. Oliver does seem to have an overbuilt frame with a longer tongue and rear bumper overhang. I suppose the double hull detracts further from interior cabin length. I wouldn't have thought 6', though.

Here's something interesting I found when I visited a few websites. All of the molded fiberglass manufacturers designate their models by overall length. Airstream does the same. Most are forthright about it in the specs, giving both overall length and interior cabin length. But two did not... Oliver and Airstream.

Jon, if you look at the floor plan page on the Oliver web site it shows dimensions of 23.5' overall, 18' cabin length and 7' width for the big Oliver.

When we were comparing the Airstream 23FB and the Oliver 23.5, I had a hard time believing both had the same cabin length. The AS seemed bigger. While it is wider, it also seemed longer. We went with the Oliver due to build quality, features and personal attention from everyone at the factory.

[Uplander]

Jim Bennett, Thanks for all the data...the tow rating for the Ford Eco-Boost is impressive indeed !

Many new to RV travel trailers get confused by the way the industry lists the length of their product. Most if not all use the industry standard of total length...meaning from the tip of the hitch to (and including) the rear bumper...NOT The length of the trailer body or living quarters. Widths range from 7 feet or less to 8 feet on average. I have been doing this for over 30 years and it has always been that way.

Jon in AZ, The Holiday Rambler was one of the top manufacturers of both Travel Trailers and Motor Homes. They are of best quality. For a while they built an Ultra-Lite travel trailer ....high quality and just about the lightest ever to hit the road yet superior in build, lay-out and interior appointments. About two or three years ago the parent company decided to change direction and drop all production lines except the Ultra Custom production of Motot Homes.
Totally custom...no stock line...you had to work with a designer...a high end focus and no travel trailers.
I was lucky enough to buy one of their R-Vision Ultra Lite travel trailers before they departed that business. When they closed down travel trailer production the industry was in shock !

If you are lucky enough to find a well cared for Holiday Rambler travel trailer or an Ultra-Lite R-Vision buy it...none better. I stumbled upon mine while looking for something a little bigger....got bigger and lighter...used and like new.
Happy Camper !

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Carol and Mike

Jon, if you look at the floor plan page on the Oliver web site it shows dimensions of 23.5' overall, 18' cabin length and 7' width for the big Oliver.

When we were comparing the Airstream 23FB and the Oliver 23.5, I had a hard time believing both had the same cabin length. The AS seemed bigger. While it is wider, it also seemed longer. We went with the Oliver due to build quality, features and personal attention from everyone at the factory.

Yes, I see now that it is on the floor plan. But it is not listed in the specs, which includes all three overall exterior dimensions, but only interior width and height. I find that a bit, well… not exactly forthright, as I said.


I agree that roominess is only one of many factors that come into play when choosing a trailer. I certainly wouldn't presume to tell anyone else what the optimal size or build type is. I can only say that for my family, and in my present circumstances, a 13' molded fiberglass Scamp is optimal.