Bias vs Radial Tires - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-07-2007, 02:39 PM   #15
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Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
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I would be surprised if the tires on a trailer from a reputable manufacturer were at their rated capacity "off the factory floor", which means at the unloaded vehicle weight. The axle capacity rating is controlled by the least capable component, including the tires, and tires are selected to at least meet the required rating; I've seen cases in which the tires are the most limiting element. If they were good only for UVW, then the cargo capacity would be zero... and I would be checking the axle rating as well.

I agree that this class of trailer is getting heavier with time, for the same size and in many cases for exactly the same fiberglass shell. There have been upgrades in tire sizes and ratings in some brands and models. If some manufacturer has not been adjusting appropriately, they should be challenged on that, but I was not aware that any of our current egg brands would fall into that category.

The factory spec web page for the Scamp 16' says it includes "Tire 13" C rating". The two 13" sizes of Goodyear Marathon in load range C (ST175/80R13 and ST185/80R13) have load ratings of 1360 lb and 1480 lb. According to recent posts, a Custom Deluxe Scamp 16' could easily have a UVW (or at least a wet no-cargo weight) at the limit of the ST175/80R13, and even the ST185/80R13 would have little if any usable cargo capacity. If this size and type of tire came on a trailer of this weight which I bought, I would not accept it. Do we know specifically which tires were provided, and what the UVW was?

Another factor to keep in mind is changing standards: when my Boler was built in 1979 the "ST" (Special Trailer), "LT" (Light Truck) and "P" (Passenger) tire specs didn't exist, and an ordinary F78-14 car tire operating at 32PSI was interchangeable with a trailer tire, and suited to the trailer. Now, an ST205/75R14 and a P205/75R14 have different load ratings (at the same pressure) for trailer service, and the "car tire" of that size which was rated suitably then is no longer good enough. I'm sure the P205/75R14 is a better tire than the original equipment... but standards have been elevated.
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Old 04-07-2007, 07:12 PM   #16
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Here is a link that works for the Kumho D rated tires
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?ma...odel=Radial+857

Tire 205/0QR14 D will give you more bang for the buck and saftey. If you click on Serv. Desc: 109/107Q under Trailer Use Only, you will find the charts with lots of info on speed , weight and psi.

I had a blow-out driver side last Monday on I-75 with the Goodyear Marathons that believe me a large number of folks are haveing trouble with. I was in the center lane and it was not a pleasant experience. I had to get the egg to the side and then I pulled as far in the grass as I could. I had to change it myself. I ordered my tires Tuesday and they were here Thursday. The egg was not going on the road again with the Goodyear tires.

I am lucky to be here and I want tires that I can have peace of mind with.

If you have trouble with the link or the charts, please let me know and I will post pictures of them for you.

PS If you think Goodyear are Made in the USA, think again!
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Old 04-07-2007, 07:57 PM   #17
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Trailer: Lance 1985~'Casita de Campo' ~23' 4"~Dinette Slide Previously: Scamp 16 ft Side Dinette, Front Bath
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Quote:
I had a blow-out driver side last Monday on I-75 with the Goodyear Marathons that believe me a large number of folks are haveing trouble with.
Roger, this is the problems I was refering to.

Thanks to all for all the info and advise, I have been reading a lot about Casita tires and blow-outs, etc. in other forums and have been wondering about the 13" ones Scamp has. And what I should replace them with when that time arrives.

Has any Scamp owners replaced the 13" wheels with larger; if so is there a big need to do so?

Thanks, again.
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Old 04-08-2007, 07:22 AM   #18
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Trailer: Y2K6 Born Free 32RQ on the Kodiak chassis, 1995 Coachmen 19' B-van and 1996 Precision 21' Sailboat
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Quote:
Roger, this is the problems I was refering to.

Thanks to all for all the info and advise, I have been reading a lot about Casita tires and blow-outs, etc. in other forums and have been wondering about the 13" ones Scamp has. And what I should replace them with when that time arrives.

Has any Scamp owners replaced the 13" wheels with larger; if so is there a big need to do so?

Thanks, again.
Adrian, the problem with these anecdotal reports is that there isn't any investigation that's going on to determine if, in fact, the tires are defective or what the common thread is among them. If I had to guess, it sounds like the manufacturers are overloading them going out the door from the factory. They'll put up with a certain amount of abuse, but eventually they fail, most likely from heat deteriorating the sidewall as a result of overload/underinflation/age, but that doesn't necessarily mean the tires are defective and "a problem". The 19' Scamps had/have issues with 13" tire failures as a result of overloading. A 13" "C" range tire would be underrated for a 17' Casita... and perhaps at it's load rating for some of the 16' Scamp custom deluxe trailers when dry; although I had no problems with mine.

I ran Marathons on all of my Airstreams without a failure for years. I also replaced them after their fifth season of use regardless of mileage or wear, although when I bought my tri-axle, four of the six Marathons were nine years old.

BTW, Bigfoot runs "C" range ST225/75R15 tires on all of their trailers.

Roger
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Old 04-08-2007, 10:05 AM   #19
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One thing that seems not to be general knowledge is that some of the tire failures are due to valve stem failures. I had a valve stem fail and destroy a tire. A few months later the same thing happened to a friend. Metal valve stems solve that problem.
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Old 04-08-2007, 10:28 AM   #20
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Adrian, the problem with these anecdotal reports is that there isn't any investigation that's going on to determine if, in fact, the tires are defective or what the common thread is among them. If I had to guess, it sounds like the manufacturers are overloading them going out the door from the factory. They'll put up with a certain amount of abuse, but eventually they fail, most likely from heat deteriorating the sidewall as a result of overload/underinflation/age, but that doesn't necessarily mean the tires are defective and "a problem".
Roger
In reference to "anecdotal reports", I did the research and with campers and boat trailers there was listed an 80% failer rate on the Radial Marathon Tires. Enough to worry me.

I think you are exactly correct that the manufacturers are overloading them going out the door from the factory, or so close to it that if you just put bare necessities in the egg, you are above max weight.

Just for the record, I weighed mine before the trip and I was not overweight on either axel. I had the correct 50 psi, the tires were not old, and I did not exceed th 55-60 mph recomended speed for the tire. I have read too many failer reports on other forums, like Adrian, and just wanted to share what I learned. I did not change to a different tire before the trip and I was sorry.
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Old 04-08-2007, 10:53 AM   #21
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Susan... an 80% failure rate is huge, but what are the parameters of the study?

I'd really like to read about this. Do you have a source you can quote please? I haven't seen any definitive studies on this to date. I've read complaints about just about every brand of p-metric ST tires on every forum, but haven't been able to find any definitive research yet. Goodyear Marathons and Carlisles seem to be mentioned most frequently as failing, but that may be because they're mounted on more trailers than any other brands.

Roger
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Old 04-08-2007, 11:06 AM   #22
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Susan... an 80% failure rate is huge, but what are the parameters of the study?

I'd really like to read about this. Do you have a source you can quote please? I haven't seen any definitive studies on this to date. I've read complaints about just about every brand of p-metric ST tires on every forum, but haven't been able to find any definitive research yet. Goodyear Marathons and Carlisles seem to be mentioned most frequently as failing, but that may be because they're mounted on more trailers than any other brands.

Roger
Roger, will go back on my history and see if I can find where I read it and will send it to you.
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Old 04-08-2007, 11:38 AM   #23
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Roger, the 80% was quoted in one of the Casita forums. I will try to contact the person. Have you looked at http://199.79.180.162/cars/problems/complain/ and http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm
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Old 04-08-2007, 01:01 PM   #24
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Roger, the 80% was quoted in one of the Casita forums. I will try to contact the person. Have you looked at http://199.79.180.162/cars/problems/complain/ and http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm
I did look at those after you posted them, but I there isn't anything definitive there. 52 complaints about Marathons in eight years out of the millions sold aren't many. There may even be thousands of unreported failures, but compared to the number installed, it still may be relatively a small percentage. Even at that, there needs to be some way of determining how many failed because of defects and how many failed for other reasons.

Roger
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Old 04-08-2007, 02:04 PM   #25
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Just a small warning: "205/0QR14 D" on the Sizes and Pricing page is not a tire size, so the people who assembled the information at the Tire Rack for this line of tires did not know what what they were doing, or were not careful. The Tire Rack is apparently a reputable company, with lots of good information posted on their web site, but any information from them specific to this tire is suspect. All three sizes are similarly incorrect.

I was guessing the incorrect size might be intended to be something like 205/80R14 (with a "D" for load range), although a 205 mm wide 14" tire would more commonly be a 205/75R14. The "Q" happens to match the speed rating, so it might be 205/80QR14 D, using the old scheme of placing the speed rating before the radial designation. Check Tire Rack's specs page for the same tire, and now the "0" is gone... so it looks like a blank on one page just became a zero on another. It's pretty bad when you have to guess the size of a tire you're considering buying.

For a more authoritative source of information, check out Kumho Tires. As discussed in the Casita forum topic, the 857 is a commercial-service tire, suitable for trailer use (as well as trucks and vans). The actual size of the 205-width tire is 205R14 - the aspect ratio is not specified, and is about 80 (from the dimensions), so the Tire Rack people were perhaps trying for "205/80QR14"; from their own description page it should have been 82 series, or 205/82QR14. There is no indication on the Kumho page of the Q speed rating, but the load capacity does match the 109 load index assigned by Tire Rack (they call it a 109/107Q, presumably meaning 107 at Q speeds, and 109 at some lower speed).

In the end, if you want a high-pressure, high-load tire in this size range, the Kumho looks fine... I just suggest going to the best source for reliable information.
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Old 04-08-2007, 04:02 PM   #26
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One thing that seems not to be general knowledge is that some of the tire failures are due to valve stem failures. I had a valve stem fail and destroy a tire. A few months later the same thing happened to a friend. Metal valve stems solve that problem.
Nick has nailed it!!

I've had tire after tire fail on our various trailers from pop-ups to utility to eggs. I've had radials, I've has bias, I've had fifty dollar tires and I've had ten. We've probably blown six tires over the years if we've blown one.

When I lost a reasonably new tire on our 5500 Trillium while driving I-81 in Virginia last summer we went on the spare for twenty miles or so to a big-truck tire place just outside of Harrisonburg. (The name inexplicably escapes me at the moment) but I was so impressed with both the apparent level of competence and the concern that they showed for our petty problem that I actually wrote a letter to the ownership last year commending them for their service. (If I had the trailer outside, I'd have their name. I wrote in in our log book.)

While my Loadstar bias ply tire had indeed failed, the tire guy convinced me the problem was NOT with the tire but with that cheesy standard rubber valve stem that I, and likely 90% of the rest of us, had on my trailer tires. While our egg was on the line between a pair of fifty-three foot Freuhaufs (and feeling rather tiny & chagrinned), he explained that those are fine for 36 PSI passenger car tires. The minute you put fifty pounds behind such a stem, it goes south on you and as soon as it heats up is an accident waiting to happen.
I was really sold when his installer guy, who had NOT been party to our conversation in the office asked me out in the bay if I wanted him to put "...some real valve stems in...". I was convinced.
Curiously, the rest of that trip and a couple thousand miles since have NOT required me to pump up either tire pre-trip as is my routine. Almost invariably, my tires lose air by sitting. Perhaps it's not the valve stem... perhaps it's just good karma. But if I went out to the Pearl right now and put the gauge on the tires I guarantee neither of them is below 48 pounds and more importantly neither of those metal valve stems has a crack at the base.
So my bias-ply tires will run just fine with no radial rockin' & swayin'.

Just sayin'


Doug

Special... this week only... House in Miami for sale with metal valve stems thrown in!
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Old 04-08-2007, 05:23 PM   #27
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Yup, I was going to mention the valve stem, too. Snap-in rubber stems are supposed to be good to 65 PSI, but I don't think there would be any harm in using a metal stem as long as the rim design would permit one to seal up properly.

Good info here:

http://www.techtirerepairs.com/tech_...0Issue%202.pdf
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