Campground cheaters

[Gina D.]

ugh.

I have a love/hate relationship with my area. In one way, I have the opportunity to camp all year round, in some very varied types of areas, from forest to desert ( not my favorite) Looking at all the winterizing threads, I wipe my brow and say "Phew! Glad I don't have to do that"

On the other hand, there are 5 bizzilion other folks that can say the same thing, right here.

This morning, my commute will include going slightly out of my way to drop my trailer off in a campsite, staking my claim, so to speak, so I will have a spot for the weekend.

There is something that irks me about that, not that you HAVE to in order to get where you want, but it seems a bit like cheating. A cheater, I am not. And it also makes you pay for an extra day.

I dunno, what do you think? Cheating or self preservation?

[Chester Taje]

The situation you pointed out is done all the time in my area.It is a very comon practice.I have done it myself on a number of occasions.

(The early bird gets the worm)

[Steve L.]

I suppose it's a matter of degrees. I often rustic camp. No reservations. Dirt cheap. $9 a night.

I'll often take a half day on Friday. Sometimes I'll take Friday off and get there Thursday afternoon/evening. No matter when I get there, someone has taken the choice spots by throwing a cheap popup tent on the site. Sometimes it's just a couple of cheap lawn chairs.

Michigan DNR rules say you must sleep on the site. Every night. I'll be there up to TWO nights with not a soul in evidence. Oh, they've paid for the sites. Two nights there is still cheaper than one night at a electricity provided site.

And I'm supposed to just push their stuff aside on the vaguely vigilante theory that they've not followed the rules? There aren't rangers around until the weekend. And even if the ranger does authorize the eviction, I suspect that won't stop them from harassing me after the fact anyhow.

And for me, only, please take no offense because my rules work only for me and I've already established a somewhat shaky reputation, but for me, it is a little like sinking.... well, never mind.

Oh, I know, I suffer because of scoff-laws. They'll just have to endure my evil-eye. That'll fix 'em.

Sorry, I voted "cheating".

[Roger H]

It annoys me when someone is arrogant enough to fill a campsite with "stuff" and doesn't use it and by doing so, prohibits someone else from using it who intends to occupy and enjoy it. My opinion is that parked, but unoccupied units should be removed regardless of whether or not the fees are paid. It's not a matter of fee collection, it's a matter of facility and park access by folks who want to use their parks, and are prohibited by other folks who want to use it 'later', but not today. No reservations should mean just that: first come first served. If you can't sleep there, you shouldn't be in the site.

Of course, campgrounds where reservations are allowed are a whole different issue... but even at that, after a certain hour without contact from late arrivals, the sites should be available.

Sorry, Gina.

Roger

[Bill Hamilton]

I guess that I am missing something. What does the tent/chairs on the site gain them if they are not ever there? Seems to me they are wasting money and possibly will have their stuff stolen.

[Bigfoot Mike]

My opinion is that parked, but unoccupied units should be removed regardless of whether or not the fees are paid. It's not a matter of fee collection, it's a matter of facility and park access by folks who want to use their parks, and are prohibited by other folks who want to use it 'later', but not today. No reservations should mean just that: first come first served. If you can't sleep there, you shouldn't be in the site.
Roger

If a person shows up, pays their fee, and leaves, how do you know what time they will be back to go to bed.

I would be very upset if I came back and someone said, “Well you weren’t here.” and had tossed my stuff and set up their camp where I had paid.

I have had dinner with friends and played cards ’til the wee hours in the morning before heading back to my camp.

I think this could be a bit touchy.

[Roger H]

If a person shows up, pays their fee, and leaves, how do you know what time they will be back to go to bed.

I would be very upset if I came back and someone said, “Well you weren’t here.” and had tossed my stuff and set up their camp where I had paid.

I have had dinner with friends and played cards ’til the wee hours in the morning before heading back to my camp.

I think this could be a bit touchy.

I didn't say it was appropriate or even reasonable. It's just my opinion. I also recognize it's not enforceable or do-able, except that I've seen many folks drop off their trailers without ever hooking them up, or setting up. Days prior to a long weekend, I've seen campgrounds full with hardly anyone around and no room for any transient RVs to drop in for a night. The campgrounds look like a used RV lot. Pop-ups are left down, door steps up... trailers not plugged in... no leveling, no stabilizer jacks, no lights, no signs of intending to use the site at all, other than the trailer being dropped off there. I think most of us usually recognize some sign of occupancy around sites where folks are actively staying.

Roger

[John Campbell]

Our western mountain "cheaters" come in a different form and bother me far more than those who stake out an extra night in the campground. The short-term stakers are not that common here because it's a long climb from homes to camping areas.

In many of the National Forests of Wyoming, "dispersed camping" is allowed and often encouraged. Dispersed camping means you can pull off and camp in non-developed areas. The traditional campgrounds would never have spaces if the dispersed camping was eliminated. On busy weekends in the summer, it can be hard to find even a dispersed spot.

The Forest Service rules limit you to 14 days in one spot. After that you are required to move. Unfortunately, there is no enforcement of this rule what so ever. Thus, many people pull their rigs up into the mountains in the spring and keep them in the same spot all summer. Unlike Gina, who might take up a space for an extra night or two, these folks take the space away from others permanently. Unfortunately there is not much that can be done then for me to give their trailers the heavy duty evil eye when passing.

And Gina, I guess I must say I give the short-timers like you the light duty evil eye when you are using/not using the site I want.

John C.

[Brian B-P]

I'm with Roger on this one, but checked "Self Preservation", because "Cheating" implies that there is a rule which is being broken. If the rules allow squatting with an RV, taking space that could be used, then doing this is not cheating - it just shows that better rules are needed.

This practice is bad because it means that legitimate visitors from other areas cannot use the facilities, but locals (close enough to run back and forth to the site) get a free extension of their backyard, at public expense. Oh yes, and the retired folks get priority over the working people who can't show up at a campsite on Wednesday to spend the weekend.

A well-managed system would allow advance reservations, by phone or internet so that the camper's home location would not be an advantage. Unused reservations would mean forfeiting a prepaid fee, to keep people from tying up a place which they do not use.

Sorry if this is a little heated. Now I'll stop typing and try to lower my blood pressure...

[Roger H]

Ok, Gina! NOW you've done it! All of us up-tight and over-wrought folks are going to have apoplectic fits and stroke out over this! SHAME on you for even bringing it up!

Uh... ummm... Can I vote "Cheater" twice?

Roger

[Byron Kinnaman]

Ok, Gina! NOW you've done it! All of us up-tight and over-wrought folks are going to have apoplectic fits and stroke out over this! SHAME on you for even bringing it up!

Uh... ummm... Can I vote "Cheater" twice?

Roger

Look out, she'll sick those flying monkeys on you.

[Alf S.]

I'm with Roger on this one, but checked "Self Preservation", because "Cheating" implies that there is a rule which is being broken. If the rules allow squatting with an RV, taking space that could be used, then doing this is not cheating - it just shows that better rules are needed.

This practice is bad because it means that legitimate visitors from other areas cannot use the facilities, but locals (close enough to run back and forth to the site) get a free extension of their backyard, at public expense. Oh yes, and the retired folks get priority over the working people who can't show up at a campsite on Wednesday to spend the weekend.

A well-managed system would allow advance reservations, by phone or internet so that the camper's home location would not be an advantage. Unused reservations would mean forfeiting a prepaid fee, to keep people from tying up a place which they do not use.

Sorry if this is a little heated. Now I'll stop typing and try to lower my blood pressure...

What's the use in getting heated??? I just had a pace maker installed !!! Well paced is better than well...High blood preasure!!! I voted self pres. I figure if I pay for something and don't use it it is still mine!!! Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[CD Smith]

If your in Texas and someone has used their "stuff" to save a campsite, don't move it. We have a "right to carry law" and a large majority of citizens carry whether they have the right or not.

[Chester Taje]

There is a price to pay for Cheating/self preservation.Just down the road from my place is a great free campsite which is used all the time.This place always has those people who leave their Units there till they decide to camp.

Well today there are still a number of units parked there waiting for there owners to come.Only problem this time is that we had a early snowfall.Over 3 ft in less that 2 days.Those units are there till spring.No way to get them out with out great expence to themselfs.

By spring they could all be vandalized as no one will be around.

[Roger H]

Ches... sounds like a great place to do your Christmas shopping to me! Plenty of time, nearby, no one around... Ooops... did I say that?

Roger

[Chester Taje]

[Gina D.]

Well, I am IN my site. I did not dump my trailer and leave for a couple days, I just brought it here in the AM on my way to work, Unhitched, leveled, set up my water.. and left until I could get here this evening. I also paid for 3 days even tho, hour wise, it's only 2. But I was here before check in time.

There were people in the space I really wanted, but when I got here tonite, they were gone.

In this case, no one was put out.. there is me and 2 families with tents, and lots of Forest Service folks. This is a fire staging campground.

You can't dump and not sleep here either, at least, not on the first nite. After that, you can leave and come back, but I think there is a 24 hour rule.

Now, this summer, BY PERMISSION of the camphosts, I left my trailer at Heartbar on a sunday after I had spent the weekend, and came back the next friday. Yep, it was the 4th of July, and.. well.. that one I feel guilty about, but no one was left without a spot, amazingly.

I never had to do this in Oregon. Thats why it seems wierd to me.

[Al and Cindy K]

The NPS has four campgrounds on the NC Outer Banks and reservations are accepted only at the Ocracoke facility. With the exception of Memorial Day, Labor Day and July 4th, getting a site is usually not a problem. On those Holiday weekends however, the campgrounds may be full by noon on Friday or there could be a few sites avalable Saturday AM - strictly a crap shoot. The Park Service units are usually the last to fill up so if we arrive and no sites are open, the only option is to reverse course for a four hour trip back home.

If we plan on camping over one of the three day weekends, I'll drive down on Thursday after work, set up the Scamp and return home (9-10 hr effort) so I guess I'm with Gina on this one.

The problem could easily be resolved if the Park Service would set aside say one half of the sites for reservations and leave the remainder open on a first come first serve basis. If this were handled as non site-specific reservations, the administrative burden wouild be minimal.

Al

[Linda R002]

I am sure many think we are guilty of dropping our trailer to save the space but in reality, we drop as early as posible so we can enjoy as full a day as posible of the local area. We usually come back after dark, tired and pleased with a full day. If we came back and found our stuff moved cause we weren't in our trailer at a certain time, there would be fireworks. We pay for our spot and after a full day hiking and exploring, knowing our trailer is safe in a spot, we look forward to coming back and relaxing. And usually we are off again the next morning before many are up and about. Do they think we just dropped to hold a spot? Who knows. We pay for the spot and use it the way it suits us best. Maybe there is more to the story than a parked unattended trailer shows at first glance.

[Linda R002]

Our western mountain "cheaters" come in a different form and bother me far more than those who stake out an extra night in the campground. In many of the National Forests of Wyoming, "dispersed camping" is allowed and often encouraged. Dispersed camping means you can pull off and camp in non-developed areas. The Forest Service rules limit you to 14 days in one spot. After that you are required to move. Unfortunately, there is no enforcement of this rule what so ever.
John C.

The rule is here in Oregon too and many who are almost homeless use these camp spots as long term homes. I asked several rangers about how they felt about these campers while I was on a wild fire and was told that rangers don't generally have a problem with these campers because:
-At least the rangers know where they are and can see if there is something wrong going on.
-When there are children in the camping group, the rangers can keep an eye on the kids and make sure they are getting enough to eat and are fairly healthy.
The other option is for them to find places to hide and then it is more dangerous for the campers, fires, hikers who might stumble on their locations and rangers checking in on them.