Caution - Shady underworld Boler flippers at play - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 05-08-2007, 01:36 PM   #15
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FOOTNOTE :

Incidentally, in case you don't follow the threads at Boler ama (Delphi) where several other Boler owners have had this same kind of experience, the guys that are doing this kind of thing are a 'professional' RV dealer :

http://www.southwestrv.ca/openauto/carview.php?view=145

U p to you if you're interested in dealing with them. Personally I'd be reluncant to, for fear that I'd be over-paying.

Darren.
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:59 PM   #16
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Basically, except for the misleading statement of intentions regarding the purchase and use (which really have no effect on the transaction like it would with something like a pet adoption), I personally see nothing wrong. "Flipping" is exactly what car/truck/boat/RV dealers everywhere do with trade-ins -- Buy low and sell at a premium price (albeit with perhaps a warranty, but we already know about used car dealers and trust in general).

Of course, if the seller is misrepresenting the item, then that's a cause for concern.

Prudent shoppers check the market and Blue Books (when available), but some folks are less than prudent...
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Old 05-08-2007, 04:28 PM   #17
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Darren, thank you for bringing this up. I have struggled with my feelings on the same subject for three years now. I respect free enterprise...only if done with integrity. If a fast talking salesman approaches me, I RUN in the other direction.

I had been planning/dreaming about purchasing a trailer so that my young family could make camping memories for many years. In August of 2004, I woke up at 3am for no reason and could not get back to sleep. I decided to go online and check out this site for trailers for sale. Jim Gilb had posted a really nice 17" widebody Burro, loaded for $3500. Within a few hours of his posting, I had made contact and asked him if I could see more pictures. He emailed the pictures and I was making arrangements to send him money when he said that someone contacted his son and put a check in the mail sight unseen. The buyer (in Rocky Mount, NC) said that he and his wife were building a house along a river and needed Jim's trailer to live in while they built their house. At this point Jim was torn whether to sell the trailer to me or this person in NC who his son had talked to. I talked to Jim on the phone, and this NC guy talked to Jim on the phone and convinced Jim that he was the first buyer and the check was already in the mail. Jim Gilb went off to Africa to build villages, his Burro was on Ebay within weeks.

I don't mind someone purchasing something for a good price, putting sweat equity in it and reselling. What irks me is when they scan this site for the good deals between like minded folk, take advatage of a kind heart, and lie about intentions all for a buck. I take solace in knowing what goes around comes around and Rocky Mount, NC will surely get his.
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Old 05-08-2007, 05:07 PM   #18
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If 'flipping' bothers a seller, the seller should ask straight up the buyers intentions. That is the point where a dishonest person would make up a fabricated reason they are buying. But remember, you are placing conditions on the sale. That all has to be done up front.

Myself, when I sell anything, I feel I am giving up my legal ownership to the item. As soon as I am paid the buyer owns it and they are free to do as they please.
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Old 05-08-2007, 05:35 PM   #19
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At the risk of belaboring the point, I coarsely agree that if you put something up for sale for a price and someone buys it for that price, then yeah, it's theirs to do as they please. If you're worried about whether someone's intentions with the thing are not as pure as you would like, then ask for references and do a quick check on the buyer...

On the other hand, there's a reason this "RV dealer" lied about their intentions. They, in their own mind, believe they're doing something that the seller would not approve of. If they had no reason to believe that what they were doing was going to be perceived negatively, then they would have had no reason to fabricate such a tale..

No, in this case, they thought they were pulling a fast one so they made up a convincing lie... It's finding out about the lie after the fact that is probably at issue here...

I sold my 1300 to Yuri. Yuri's family was there and they all looked at the trailer. I'm glad that trailer that I put many many hours of work into, and spent many hours enjoying for a good number of years, went to a family that I'm sure is going to enjoy it. Sure, Yuri owns it now and can take it to the vehicle shredder and turn it into a box of fiberglass shavings. That's his prerogative, but I'd be sad... If Yuri had said "I'm going to buy this trailer so I can have the distinct pleasure of seeing it bounce around inside the big steel shredder as it is reduced to a big bag of 'itch'", I would definitely not have sold it to him.

Suddenly, I get the feeling I'm not able to convey my point no matter how long I keep typing .... So I'll just stop...
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Old 05-08-2007, 07:06 PM   #20
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Rocky Mount, NC?
I'll say it if nobody else will - that's the Amerigo seller, is it not?


I also agree in a general way that if a business transaction is made and both the seller and buyer are happy, then what happens to the item after the sale is really none of the seller's business, unless specific conditions were placed upon the sale ahead of time. What was done here, though, really burns my bottom because a trust between the seller and buyer has been broken. The sale was completed under false pretenses, and that's just wrong. People that speculate on a commodity like fiberglass eggs make it extremely difficult for people like me who are looking to enter the realm of owners but don't have a lot of money to spend. When a few items are sold for outrageous prices, it leads other sellers to shoot for the moon when they offer theirs for sale. I honestly can't blame a seller for trying to maximize their profit; that's what free enterprise is all about. That doesn't mean I have to like it, though.

Grrrrr....
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Old 05-08-2007, 07:41 PM   #21
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My husband and I have bought many RV's, trailers etc. We bought them in rough condition, fixed them up, used them for a bit, then sold or traded them for something else. If we made a few bucks, great!

But, what I think is a big issue here, is that many times when we are selling something we will make special considerations a particular situation. A dealer or someone who is going to profit on it would not get as good a price as say, a couple or family just starting out, who don't have a lot to invest in something like that. We would weigh the situation and at times would get caught up and let something go for a bit less, because of the buyer's personal circumstances.

Maybe we shouldn't but we do. I would hate to think that we would be misled and our generosity would be taken advantage of...Now that burns me.....

So what happened in BC will make me think twice about the sale pricing....and how much to bend...
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Old 05-08-2007, 09:28 PM   #22
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There are valid points on both sides.

When I sold my 13, my intention was to get what I thought was a fair price out f it, based on what I put in (Which I did not recoup completely) what it was reasonably worth, and what I thought a reasonable person who was going to enjoy it would pay. I could have sold it for more, but why hassle with it trying to squeeze the last dime out. It served my purpose while owning it, and I felt I did a fair deal with the buyer. I wasn't ripped off, and neither was he. I lost nothing.

I won in both directions, the buyer has kept in contact with me and shared his mods and repairs, so in a completely wierd way, I am still tied to it, and get to enjoy it through the internet.

Do I feel it's still mine? No. If he were to turn around and sell it now for more money, would I feel hurt or like I lost something? NO. It's his to do with as he pleases. He paid for it and fulfilled his obligation to me. Story over. Anything else is pleasant, but not obligatory.

On the other hand, when I purchased the 17, I briefly thought of flipping it because of what I paid. I didn't because my intent in purchase was to USE it, not make money. If I flipped it, I would have only had to search for another of equal value and spend all that I "saved" buying this one. I haven't shared what I paid until now, because, frankly, it's no ones business specifically but mine and the guy I bought it from, but it has relevance to this thread.... so here goes.

I paid 5k for it. Deal of the century? Close. Could I have turned around the next day and sold it here for 8k? Probably. Or at least close to it. Do I feel I ripped the seller off? Not really, but the words "I wasn't going to educate him on it's value" have been said here by others, and by myself in this purchase. Those words do have a pang of shadyness, even if there was no direct intent at my original inquiry to take advantage of him. If I had knocked on his door and said something like "Hey, I'll give you 5k for that scrap heap and wouldn't it be nice to get it out from in front of your house?" when he really had not thought about selling it WOULD have been shady.

He feels he got a good price, was also happy I was going to use it and I feel I got an outstanding deal We were both happy. I *may* have taken advantage of the situation, but did I really take advantage of him? I still don't know, but if the answer is "yes", it was only slightly at best. As mentioned, he was happy, and I guess thats what counts. The fact that I would have also have been happy to pay 8k for it really doesn't come into play. The fact that he didn't react when I didn't try to "make a deal" should have been his hint, and he didn't take it. It was a very quick transaction. I practically threw the cash at him

In this situation, or any other buying situation, I doubt there is anyone here with serious intent of buying something that would tell the seller he wasn't asking enough.
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Old 05-08-2007, 10:12 PM   #23
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I will also add... (Haven't you had enuff? )

For some unknown reason, there is a faction of buyers who feel they have every right to negotiate a price based on what YOU paid for the item when you got it. They feel they are getting ripped off or something if you ask more than what you paid. Why? I haven't a clue.

What something is worth is what it's worth, regardless of what price was paid for it by the seller. High... or low.
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Old 05-08-2007, 10:43 PM   #24
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Wow, no kidding some people will do anything for a buck. it's a shame when you think it is going to a nice home and you find out it's going to a trailer lot. I have strange connections with cars etc. and get kind of sad when we sell something especially if you have put a lot of time and love into restoring it. So, I would probably shed a little tear to see it sitting without a family on a cold lot. I'm all for free enterprise but also be honest about what your intentions are, the seller was honest about what needed to be done. Just a little disturbing. Call me sensative, it's the estrogen in me!

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Medford Oregon
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Old 05-08-2007, 10:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
lots of text ....
You make lots of good points Gina and I won't disagree with any one of them. But you fail to respond to the dishonesty issue of 'outright lying' in order to mislead.

Who cares about the price?? Personally, I think it was worth what the buyer paid - and only what the buyer paid. In good conscience I couldn't have asked more. But thinking that someone will pay $7900 for the trailer in its current shape, with no value added, pains me a little, partly because the only buyer that will pay that fee for it will, IMHO, not have sufficient exprience or knowledge to know any different.

Right you are - the market will dictate the price. That is true and it always will be in a free market economy. And I'm all for that.

But, other than the deceipt, I don't like businesses praying on unsuspecting buyers. And I believe that's what this particular group of individuals is doing.

How do you respond to those two points?
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:15 PM   #26
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How do you respond to those two points?
There is no question that the buyer lied to you about their intentions, and it serves as a good warning to those that might buy from this dealer, or at least a heads up that they use deceptful practices in buying. Probably is a given they do so in selling as well.

I feel for you that you did not have direct contact with the good home it will most likely go to eventually. We all have an emotional bond to our rigs and like to think someone will love them as much as we did.

As far as the person that will end up buying it from the dealer, well, Pete mentioned used car dealers, and if one does not go in with the caution one should with a dealer, well..they are not being very smart.

In short, we can not protect the world from a bad transaction. I won't even say "bad".. it's just a transaction most of us would not make. But we researched first.

The dealer is not going to twist the buyers arm. In the end, it is ultimately the buyers decision. All you can say if asked is "I don't think it's worth it". But the buyer is ultimately responsible for any transaction, barring outright deceit.....charging too much is not deceitful in my book. Lieing about conditions is.
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:31 PM   #27
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It all worked out for the best in the end. We purchased a Burro (in bad shape) on Ebay that was only one hour South of our home. It has been rebuilt from the frame up and will be better than new. We were able to camp in it last year but it needs a lot more work.

Just want to add that although I have had personal attachments to large items (cars, houses, etc) I never tracked them after selling them...unless I sold it to a friend because there is that underlying guarantee that the object would not break down or fall apart immediately after changing possession. Jim Gilb wanted to offer someone from this community a good price for his trailer...he was selling everything and going to the Peace Corps. When I spoke to Jim on the phone he told me the name of the other person interested in the trailer. I said that he was a dealer that frequently perused this Fiberglass site to purchase and resell fiberglass trailers. Jim said no way, he talked to the guy on the phone for about a half an hour, he was really nice and went into details how he and his wife were going to use the trailer and enjoy it.

We are a community, we help each other, share personal information, offer suggestions, and give & take. What bothers me is this dealer took from our community. I'd feel the same way if someone took any "Pay It Forward" items we offer each other, and sold it for a profit on Ebay. It's just not right.
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Old 05-09-2007, 12:17 AM   #28
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Interesting thread. When the fellow who sold the Burro to me offered it for about 6 grand less (all I could afford) than he had bought it for 2 weeks earlier (new) I felt I could not just take it and run. Funny thing about your conscience catching up with you eventually.

Just to make sure he understood what he was doing I asked him: "You realize you are taking a bath selling it to me at this price, don't you?" He admitted that he was fully aware of the situation, but due to extenuating circumstances he had no problem with the transaction. I was quite happy to get a serious bargain price and even happier that I didn't inadvertently con someone who just didn't know any better. As for flipping, ain't gonna happen for a loooong time.
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