Maintenance & Restoration

Greg A · 05-09-2007, 02:03 AM

At this point Darren's Ex-Boler hasn't sold for $7900 they're just asking that. Kind of like what people list their houses for, sometimes you wonder what they're smoking.

It would be interesting to know ultimately what they actually get for it as to whether it will turn out to their advantage. Still, even though it is a part of our world, one shouldn't condone their methods.

Joe MacDonald · 05-09-2007, 03:48 AM

There's a fellow up here doing the flip thing too.
he sells about 4-6 trilliums a year.
I wouldn't mind if he was just honest about it, But I got the big song and dance about how he just didn't use it much anymore, and his attempts at repairs were very poor.

Joe

Bob Miller · 05-09-2007, 06:03 PM

Darren and Others

No question that there are a lot of "Flippers" out there. We all remember the Burro that showed up last month here in Riverside that Gina and I both deemed was a rebuilding project only that was then sold, "fixed up", and resold a week later on eBay. In that case the second seller in one week "suggested" that he had owned it considerably longer than 3 days, thus making his sale sound more like a long time owners selling for a good reason. He even went so far as to describe how his kids liked sleeping in it!

This is where the question of honesty outweighs that of legality. I can't tell you of how many ads that I had seen and replied to where the seller had "used" the trailer/motor home for many seasons, but didn't know anything about how to set it up, or even turn on the lights!!! I have even looked at a "One Owner" motor home that was being sold by the "original owner", that was advertised as having a generator, and one wasn't even installed!! He claimed that he always used 110 power and, in three years never needed to start the generator. No, there wasn't even a generator control panel to be seen either.

I have learned to ask questions to "Prove" that the seller is telling the truth about ownership and condition. When they use statements like "everything appears to work" or "I never used the stove, heater, water tanks etc" I see a red flag and start pricing down to below average sale prices because it usually indicates that the seller is A) dishonest B) Doesn't know or care if he is selling you a P>O>C, C) Is concealing known problems or D) Flipping for profit or E) All of the above.

In California a "dealer" has to disclose that they are a dealer and also the source of a used vehicle/trailer before it is sold (but you have to ask ) Thus, a late model car that I recently looked, that was described as a "Trade In on a New Car", when asked about, was actually a repo that came to the dealer through an auto auction.

Ask all the wrong questions and you might get a right answer.

I don't mind making a little money if I find a good buy, but being honest is what it is still all about.

Good Luick out there

Bob Miller in hot and sunny, Riverside, CA

Mike Watters · 05-09-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

I have learned to ask questions to "Prove" that the seller is telling the truth about ownership and condition. When they use statements like "everything appears to work" or "I never used the stove, heater, water tanks etc" I see a red flag and start pricing down to below average sale prices because it usually indicates that the seller is A) dishonest

Doesn't know or care if he is selling you a P>O>C, C) Is concealing known problems or D) Flipping for profit or E) All of the above.

I can, in complete honesty, report: I've never used the stove or sink in the trailer I've owned for the last 4 or 5 years. I've never run the fridge on anything but 110 either...

CharlynnT · 05-09-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Basically, except for the misleading statement of intentions regarding the purchase and use (which really have no effect on the transaction like it would with something like a pet adoption), I personally see nothing wrong. \

I'm going to chime in here. I have often described my feelings toward my Boler -- which many friends and family raise their eyebrows at -- as "I love it like a pet."

Maybe it's "feeding the fibreglass" that makes it so much like a not-yet-ready for pasture horse. I wouldn't want to entrust it to someone who claims to want to bring it into the family, just to see them sell it for Glue.

Going to my room now. GTMRN

CharlynnT · 05-09-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

I honestly can't blame a seller for trying to maximize their profit; that's what free enterprise is all about.

Sorry, I needed a glass of water so came out of my room and couldn't help but interject again.

My boss and I had a sales trip this week and were discussing how sometimes naive buyers, wanting The Best (wanting to avoid Buyer's Remorse) ask for the top of the line. They ask her for a $30,000 machine when what they really require is, at the most, a $10,000 machine.

She told me how here hubby asked her if she were Nuts when she said, that in all good conscience, she couldn't, would not, over-sell for a quick buck.

Our business is built on customer retention, word of mouth and repeat sales, reputation. THAT is how to maximize profit.

GTMRN, again

CharlynnT · 05-09-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

There are valid points on both sides.
the words "I wasn't going to educate him on it's value" have been said here by others, and by myself in this purchase.

Egg-ZACKLY!
"You know, if you put this up on E Bay, and aranged Pay Pal, and offered shipping, you could get a lot more for it in three or four weeks, checking your computer daily or maybe five times a day, than me wandering right into your yard right now and offering cash!" (Maybe the seller already knew that.)

It seems were are not sure if Sellers are Slick (and Slimey) or if Buyers are the Sneaky ones... I am in Sales, and get this vibe often.

I enjoy this thread and insist on staying up past my bedtime.

Darren C · 05-09-2007, 10:48 PM

Let's not get confused here .... because there is two aspects to this.

My original post was about buyers mis-representing their intentions, as happend here. Many of the posts refere more to sellers disclosing things. Not the same thing.

We're not talking about sellers' disclosure here - that's expected AND required - by law and society - for the seller to be honest and not mis-represent.

But a buyer can lie their face off? Don't you guys have a problem with that?

Looks at it this way. If a SELLER were to lie about a product, the buyer might make the decision to purchase (or not) at a certain price based on what they were told.

Yet if a buyer lies to a seller - and the seller makes a similar decision on whether to sell or not to that buyer and at what price - then it's 'tough luck', Mr/Ms Seller, after the transaction.

Others have expressed it previously - that if buyers are open and honest and have nothing to hide, why not disclose their intentions? And the seller can make an informed decision.

Darren.

Bob Miller · 05-09-2007, 11:18 PM

Darren

Your point about honest buyers is well taken.

What I am saying, is that I have often been exposed to said buyers after they have bought from a prior party, perhaps under some guise, such as to take their 17 kids to see the Grand Canyon, at a below market price, who then turn around and misrepresent what they are selling. The "Flippers" as we are calling them, as a group, seem to have less than honorable standards in selling as well as when buying.

I have been very surprised to find out just how many RV sellers on ebay, Craig's List and RVTraderonline.com are just "flipping" something they bought to make a buck. That's OK, but most also attempt to enhance the story they give to prospective sellers about prior ownership etc.

Where my motorhome sits is clearly visible from a busy street. I get 2-3 knocks on my door a month from people that want to buy it as "a home for old Dad", "a place for a homeless family to live", or as "an RV for our large family", and then offer a price of 50% or less of it's current private party value. The faces change, but the story is always the same. I would be willing to take a small bet that if I sold to any of these "lookers" that it would be on eBay in a week.

As it is often said, buyer beware!

Bob Miller in Riverside

**Gina D.** · 05-10-2007, 06:11 AM

Quote:

"You know, if you put this up on E Bay, and aranged Pay Pal, and offered shipping, you could get a lot more for it in three or four weeks, checking your computer daily or maybe five times a day, than me wandering right into your yard right now and offering cash!" (Maybe the seller already knew that.)

Absoluetely! I sold my Element on almost the exact circumstances (Co-incdently not 48 hours AFTER I had cut the deal for the 17) I had THOUGHT of selling it in the back of my mind, but wasn't really doing anything about it. I wasn't actually solicited to sell it, a casual comment set the buyer into "Buy" mode when I had mentioned I was *Thinking* of selling it. I sold it for what I KNEW was under market value, but not unreasonably, because the circumstances fell into place. I didn't have to hassle with ads, and showings and getting into the vents with Q-Tips to prep etc.. basically, I drove into a car wash, and the car wash owner drove ME out in it, while I was holding a bundle of cash in my pocket.

The odd thing was, I was 100% positive he would flip it, as I knew he was also a wholesaler. He gave me some line about wanting it for his wife, the doctor, and his kids yada yada.. trying to talk me DOWN from the already fantastic price I gave him. I told him "Look, I don't care if you want to drive it off a cliff, this is what the price is, firm.

Much to my suprise, he DOES actually drive it himself. I drive by it everyday on my way to work! It sits at the carwash without a for sale on it and since it moves from parking space to parking space, I can only assume it is being used.

Once again, everyone happy. He has a good car, and I virtually had to do nothing to sell it. I don't regret not getting what it's market value would have been, my time, or the time I saved, was worth that.

Herb P · 05-10-2007, 06:59 AM

Incidentally, for those of you not on the delphi boler forum (why does that still exist anyway?), Kersti Clark posted a response to this thread....

delphiforums

Gary Lynch · 05-10-2007, 07:40 AM

Gina,

That's what I do as well (set a fair price and stick with it). If I was the kind of a person that became physically and emotionally attached to my positions I would go crazy. I have sold so many guitars, vehicles, houses, and many other items I put a lot of time in fixing or building that I decided a long time ago to not look back once the deal was done.

Kristen Beck · 05-10-2007, 02:55 PM

Hi Herb,
Thank you for putting up Kirsti Clarks response, It was nice to read her response to the thread and she sounds like a stand up person. When you calculate the money she put in just getting the little Boler home, her selling price makes sense. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge. Technically she can do whatever she wants with it, I doubt she will misslead the next person buying it.

Byron Kinnaman · 05-10-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Hi Herb,
Thank you for putting up Kirsti Clarks response, It was nice to read her response to the thread and she sounds like a stand up person. When you calculate the money she put in just getting the little Boler home, her selling price makes sense. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge. Technically she can do whatever she wants with it, I doubt she will misslead the next person buying it.

At first I wondered what the big deal was, I now have a better understanding of what Darren was bothered by. I read Kresten Beck's response and Darren's response to that. There's an old addage from the court room, if a witness is found to not tell the truth once they can be assumed to not be telling the truth at anyother time. Along the same lines, when there's two versions I look at who has something to gain by not telling the truth. I tend to believe the person that doesn't have anything to gain.