Change the tow vehicle, trailer, neither?

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

As far as aerodynamics, driving into a 20 mph headwind at 55 mph is no different than what you get when driving 75 mph. I see lots of complaints about what happens when driving into a headwind, but almost every one credits "My Good Driving" when economy happens to go up with a tail wind.

Isn't it a little suspect when "Off line" advice is offered?
If it's about FGRV'ing, and is safe and legal, why can't it be shared with all of us????

BTW: Is "aerodynamic trailer" the new code word for "Airstream"

Gadflies?

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by smeagol

Yep, I'm a turbo diesel lover. In the other post I just made, the OEM I worked at was a diesel manufacturer (<ahem> go look under your hood). Unfortunately, I haven't found the combination of reliability, quality, and utility that I'm looking for. The newer ones (subject to more stringent emissions) seem to be of lower quality, requiring more maintenance, and more expensive overall.

Brian, From your OEM experience, after Ford had to drop their great 7.3L Turbo diesel (basically, as I understand it, to appease California's more stringent than anyone else's emissions standards), then failed miserably with their next-generation 6.4L engine (nasty reputation for self-destruction), I thought their most recent 6.7L engine was turning out to be a pretty solid engine. Is there a big down side to their current stock 6.7L diesel that isn't being told (other than the usual brand bashing from Chevy and Ram fans)? Every 6.7L owner I know is getting along fine with them, but that's not a large sampling....

[smeagol]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Brian, From your OEM experience, after Ford had to drop their great 7.3L Turbo diesel (basically, as I understand it, to appease California's more stringent than anyone else's emissions standards), then failed miserably with their next-generation 6.4L engine (nasty reputation for self-destruction), I thought their most recent 6.7L engine was turning out to be a pretty solid engine. Is there a big down side to their current stock 6.7L diesel that isn't being told (other than the usual brand bashing from Chevy and Ram fans)? Every 6.7L owner I know is getting along fine with them, but that's not a large sampling....

I worked at Navistar/ITEC during the 6.0L abortion, and left slightly afterwards (unrelated to that issue, just fortunate timing for me). They have no affiliation whatsoever with the 6.7L Scorpion motor, so I can't help much.

[Carol H]

I like the OP also have a dream set up that I don't currently own! The thing is there is always going to be something we don't like about our current set up or something better out there.

Seems to me that you have a tow vehicle you like - just not the mpg's towing the trailer of choose and not the mirrors. The mirror issue is going to be with you on any trailer you tow thats over 13' ... easy fix just buy a set of mirrors that you can live with & take off when not towing. The MPG's well that comes with the choose of a trailer that is on the heavy side of the scale, but the reality is that even if you go with a lighter trailer you are not going to see a real big jump in MPG's when towing. Not a lot you can do about that - I recently changed tugs and I lost about 4-5 mpg's when towing but I know that getting out and enjoying camping helps a lot to take away the pain of the bill at the pump .

The trailer.... well what I have certainly isn't my dream trailer either but it has served me well for hundreds of nights of camping. I simple have come up with simple ways of making it as comfortable as it can be under all camping conditions.

Until you are in a position to get that dream set up then get out and enjoy the one your with. Pretty sure the new baby is not going to care one way or another what size, brand or make or trailer it is ;-)

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by floyd

Gadflies?

I would consider that a compliment:

From Wikipedia:

"For example, Morris Kline wrote "There is a function for the gadfly who poses questions that many specialists would like to overlook."

Corollary 1: PITA: a "Provider of Inconvenient Trailering Advice" ?

[smeagol]

Originally Posted by Carol H

I like the OP also have a dream set up that I don't currently own! The thing is there is always going to be something we don't like about our current set up or something better out there.

Seems to me that you have a tow vehicle you like - just not the mpg's towing the trailer of choose and not the mirrors. The mirror issue is going to be with you on any trailer you tow thats over 13' ... easy fix just buy a set of mirrors that you can live with & take off when not towing. The MPG's well that comes with the choose of a trailer that is on the heavy side of the scale, but the reality is that even if you go with a lighter trailer you are not going to see a real big jump in MPG's when towing. Not a lot you can do about that - I recently changed tugs and I lost about 4-5 mpg's when towing but I know that getting out and enjoying camping helps a lot to take away the pain of the bill at the pump .

The trailer.... well what I have certainly isn't my dream trailer either but it has served me well for hundreds of nights of camping. I simple have come up with simple ways of making it as comfortable as it can be under all camping conditions.

Until you are in a position to get that dream set up then get out and enjoy the one your with. Pretty sure the new baby is not going to care one way or another what size, brand or make or trailer it is ;-)

Yep I've tried a couple mirrors and haven't been happy, given the width of the Bigfoot. Something a bit narrower would help with visibility, but then I might complain how narrow the trailer is when 4 of us are living in it (well 5 including dog)

I did run across a couple new clamp on mirrors that might provide a better experience than what I've already used, which would hopefully help that situation. (Grand Aero and Aero 2 mirrors). Many folks swear by the McKesh mirrors, but their design doesn't seem to work well with 4Runners. Maybe a trailer mounted rear view camera might be all I need to feel better about the visibility. I do know my wife needs a training course on guiding a trailer into a camping spot

[Ice-breaker]

Originally Posted by smeagol

Yep I've tried a couple mirrors and haven't been happy, given the width of the Bigfoot. Something a bit narrower would help with visibility, but then I might complain how narrow the trailer is when 4 of us are living in it (well 5 including dog)

I did run across a couple new clamp on mirrors that might provide a better experience than what I've already used, which would hopefully help that situation. (Grand Aero and Aero 2 mirrors). Many folks swear by the McKesh mirrors, but their design doesn't seem to work well with 4Runners. Maybe a trailer mounted rear view camera might be all I need to feel better about the visibility. I do know my wife needs a training course on guiding a trailer into a camping spot

I don't have a Bigfoot or a 4Runner, but do tow a 19' Escape with a Toyota FJ. We found the Grand Aero mirrors work well for us. A bit of vibration while driving, but not bad enough to really matter. My gas mileage when not towing the Escape is in the 19-21 USmpg range, and drops to about 12-14 USmpg when towing. With the Bigfoot, you have picked a trailer that is nice, but on the heavy side and with a fairly large front profile, given it's length. You would likely find that going to a 21' or 19' Escape would improve your gas mileage somewhat, but would likely still be in the order of about 25% less than your mileage not towing.

[giro53]

we have been pleasantly surprised with our TV. Getting aprox 14 mpg. We are using the Mckish mirrors., very happy with them. My TV is certified for 7400 lbs which handles the Bigfoot easily in all conditions. I,m sure any of the 3l, e.g. VW, Mercedes, BMW equivilants would do as well. There is also the new Ram 1500 and Jeeps with the new 3L just hitting the markets. The Grand Cherokee we have was only produced for 3 years 2006-08.
Whatever your choice best of luck. We also looked at the escape. Lovely trailer but went for the Bigfoot for the greater comfort in width.

[smeagol]

Originally Posted by Ice-breaker

I don't have a Bigfoot or a 4Runner, but do tow a 19' Escape with a Toyota FJ. We found the Grand Aero mirrors work well for us. A bit of vibration while driving, but not bad enough to really matter. My gas mileage when not towing the Escape is in the 19-21 USmpg range, and drops to about 12-14 USmpg when towing. With the Bigfoot, you have picked a trailer that is nice, but on the heavy side and with a fairly large front profile, given it's length. You would likely find that going to a 21' or 19' Escape would improve your gas mileage somewhat, but would likely still be in the order of about 25% less than your mileage not towing.

Thanks for the input on the mirrors and mpg. Having previously owned about a dozen Jeeps, I *really* like the FJ's and their more utilitarian design, but it'd really make my life difficult for the next few years with child seats and such.

As far as the mirrors - I should mention I used the tow-n-see mirrors for my first trip or two, and had a few problems with them. First, their visibility was marginal for the width of my trailer, and the mirrors were a bit small. I had problems with them fogging up, probably due to weather changes during the trip. During rain the water beaded up on them bad - some RainX might have helped that, but it was infuriating dealing with it at the time of course. Finally, I had one pop off while driving, slamming into the door.

Got some generic/universal clamp on mirrors next (CIPA or K-Source, I forget which). While they fit well and didn't vibrate horribly, they only provided a small amount of increased visibility. Not very confidence inspiring.

My guesstimation on the fuel economy improvement is similar.

I think the combination of poor visibility and having to stop at a bunch of smaller gas stations in suburban areas have resulted in my backlash of wanting a completely new vehicle & trailer combo that gets 1000 mile range while towing with zero visibility issues. As crazy as that sounds, it is possible with a full size diesel and extended range tank(s). Of course I'd rather have a smaller SUV to drive on a daily basis.

[Bob Miller]

A rear view camera is not a substitute for rear view mirrors as you cannot see anything that has already passed your trailer and is in the blind spot on the side of your trailer and/or TV.

[smeagol]

Originally Posted by giro53

we have been pleasantly surprised with our TV. Getting aprox 14 mpg. We are using the Mckish mirrors., very happy with them. My TV is certified for 7400 lbs which handles the Bigfoot easily in all conditions. I,m sure any of the 3l, e.g. VW, Mercedes, BMW equivilants would do as well. There is also the new Ram 1500 and Jeeps with the new 3L just hitting the markets. The Grand Cherokee we have was only produced for 3 years 2006-08.
Whatever your choice best of luck. We also looked at the escape. Lovely trailer but went for the Bigfoot for the greater comfort in width.

Oh interesting. I looked into the older model Grand Cherokee diesels as well. I'm a bit hesitant to buy any diesel that isn't a 7.3/6BT/4BT, but I'm not that well versed on them nowadays.

Can you provide details of your driving habits/speeds/locations?

[smeagol]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

A rear view camera is not a substitute for rear view mirrors as you cannot see anything that has already passed your trailer and is in the blind spot on the side of your trailer and/or TV.

I agree with you, I meant using somewhat-marginal side mirrors adjusted to see blind spots well and then an always-on rear view camera with a good viewing angle.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

I would consider that a compliment:

From Wikipedia:

"For example, Morris Kline wrote "There is a function for the gadfly who poses questions that many specialists would like to overlook."

Corollary 1: PITA: a "Provider of Inconvenient Trailering Advice" ?

A compliment?...If only I had been referring to you!

Wikipedia defined: A gadfly's main source of information!

[Darral]

It's certainly not a substitute, but I still would not be without my rearview camera since I've gotten use to it. A problem I was having was switching lanes. More than once, I would give my signal to get over and someone else that was behind me (that I could not see) would start over at the same time- and of course while accelerating. Scary!

So the camera let's me not only see what's DIRECTLY behind me on the road, but also if I need to back up some-- as I've had to do at a gas pump before.

But I also agree 100% in that you NEED to see what's in the blindspots!!

Darral

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

A rear view camera is not a substitute for rear view mirrors as you cannot see anything that has already passed your trailer and is in the blind spot on the side of your trailer and/or TV.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

A rear view camera is not a substitute for rear view mirrors as you cannot see anything that has already passed your trailer and is in the blind spot on the side of your trailer and/or TV.

RB.... Are you referring to the time your trailer passed your TV and you ended up in the medium facing backwards??? Not

[Glenn Baglo]

Median.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Median.

SP depends on which way one is facing!!!

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Darral

But I also agree 100% in that you NEED to see what's in the blindspots!! Darral

CIPA mirror extensions on both sides for me, and my wife ridding shotgun holding a 4.5" wireless monitor to an always-on rearview wireless camera mounted on the back of the camper. That's how we roll. She warns me if there is a vehicle hugging our camper bumper that I can't see even with the mirror extensions. And if something starts to pass us, she tells me what to be expecting and on what side. Plus she has fun watching the monitor as we go under overpasses! Between the mirror extensions on both sides and the camera on the back, surprises from the rear are few and far between. Now if those crazy drivers would just stay out from in front of us....

[cpaharley2008]

Brian,
I just finished a 6400 mile cross country trip with a Ram 1500 Hemi pulling a 21' Escape. I have a 25 gallon tank and my range was about 225 miles before I started looking for a gas station. I averaged 12-13.5 mpg with the lower number into the wind. The trailer was weighed, it was 3800 lbs at the axle and 425 lb tongue weight. My front axle was 3300 lbs and my rear was 3800 lbs with an Andersen set up. My mpg not towing is about 15 mpg.
I do have a camper shell on the truck bed which I feel helps with wind and the Escape is about 6" wide than the truck on each side. I have some nice extended mirrors and the entire trip was very pleasant. Now excuse me as I have to find a part time job to pay for
close to $2k gas bill.

[honda03842]

Jim, Yikes on the gas bill. That's more than half of what we spend on gas for a year of travel. Did you drive the route 50 road thru the Neveda?