checking out a scamp in albert lea MN? and cost to install heater? - Fiberglass RV
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:50 AM   #1
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checking out a scamp in albert lea MN? and cost to install heater?

Hi again,
Anyone live near albert lea MN that would be willing to look over a scamp for us? We are 900 miles away! We had been hoping for a plan # 7 but would consider this #3 if it's in good shape and if we can get it into our price range. It doesn't have a furnace though We only boondock so would need to have one installed.
So also, any thoughts on how much it would be to have one installed privately? Scamp quoted approx. 500-600 but we just can't justify an extra 8 hrs round trip to go up to the factory, so we would need to have it done privately.
thanks all for your continued support. can you see I'm determined?
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:19 PM   #2
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try your local rv dealer on installing a wave III catalytic heater. You will need additional detectors also, approximately $400 in parts plus labor. Actually Scamp is 4 hours north of Albert Lea, maybe make an offer that includes your additional cost and make it one long trip.
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:42 PM   #3
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try your local rv dealer on installing a wave III catalytic heater. You will need additional detectors also, approximately $400 in parts plus labor. Actually Scamp is 4 hours north of Albert Lea, maybe make an offer that includes your additional cost and make it one long trip.
thanks!
yes I had thought about the wave (would love to have something quieter than the forced air furnace) --are they still able to be vented outside to make them as safe as possible?

4 hours each each way is an addl 8 hours for us but hopefully I'd be able to find someone to just do it in CO...

still leaning toward the used # 7's anyway, ugh, too bad they are so rare!
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:44 PM   #4
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The Wave's are not vented, you must crack an overhead vent while using.
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Old 12-01-2011, 02:45 PM   #5
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try your local rv dealer on installing a wave III catalytic heater. You will need additional detectors also, approximately $400 in parts plus labor. Actually Scamp is 4 hours north of Albert Lea, maybe make an offer that includes your additional cost and make it one long trip.
Some things to consider before install a catalytic heater. They burn the oxygen inside the trailer. Forced air-fresh air is drawn into the burner area and forced back out after combustion. No effect on inside air.
A product of propane combustion is water vapor. Catalytic heater will put more moisture in the air and thus more condensation on windows and cabinets since the combustion takes place inside the trailer.
As pointed out they are quiet vs force air.
If you should decide to put in a catalytic heater a low oxygen sensor would be a very very good thing to install also. One member here didn't open the vent, after running catalytic heater for a while attempted to light a burner on the stove. Not enough oxygen to light the burner.
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Old 12-01-2011, 02:55 PM   #6
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Some things to consider before install a catalytic heater. They burn the oxygen inside the trailer. Forced air-fresh air is drawn into the burner area and forced back out after combustion. No effect on inside air.
A product of propane combustion is water vapor. Catalytic heater will put more moisture in the air and thus more condensation on windows and cabinets since the combustion takes place inside the trailer.
As pointed out they are quiet vs force air.
If you should decide to put in a catalytic heater a low oxygen sensor would be a very very good thing to install also. One member here didn't open the vent, after running catalytic heater for a while attempted to light a burner on the stove. Not enough oxygen to light the burner.
Thanks for this info Byron. This has persuaded me to just go with forced air. I will say it is good white noise for the wee ones and that possible lack of oxygen thing would have me freaked out constantly!
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:58 PM   #7
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Thanks for this info Byron. This has persuaded me to just go with forced air. I will say it is good white noise for the wee ones and that possible lack of oxygen thing would have me freaked out constantly!
I'm glad to see you're not going with a Wave or similiar heater.
I've had them and had no problems but with wee ones they are a serious burn danger.
John
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:01 PM   #8
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Take a look down in the parts for sale section. Lil Snoozy is selling off their overstock of Atwood furnaces for dirt cheap! These are good furnaces and a whole lot quieter right from the box than the Suburban's. They are 12K BTU. They come with the thermostat, exterior exit, and front grill. It's a hell of a deal. I just got mine a couple days ago to replace my Suburban. Nice unit.

David
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:08 PM   #9
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Take a look down in the parts for sale section. Lil Snoozy is selling off their overstock of Atwood furnaces for dirt cheap! These are good furnaces and a whole lot quieter right from the box than the Suburban's. They are 12K BTU. They come with the thermostat, exterior exit, and front grill. It's a hell of a deal. I just got mine a couple days ago to replace my Suburban. Nice unit.

David
thanks for the tip, that is a great deal! If we decide to buy this thing hopefully there will be one left. I notice you have a scamp 16'. So apparently this heater is the right size/type for a scamp 16'? The layout we are looking at is a #3. Scamp dealership said the heater would need to be installed under the stove in the cabinet. I am waiting get cabinet measurements from seller but can anyone forsee any problems/issues with doing this? Would we need to cut an extra vent through the fiberglass since it originally was built with no furnace. Can any rv maintenace person do it or would we need someone familiar with scamps? I don't know how to find someone like that in CO short of just calling around.
Really wish the camper itself was closer so there weren't so many what-ifs!
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:57 PM   #10
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thanks for the tip, that is a great deal! If we decide to buy this thing hopefully there will be one left. I notice you have a scamp 16'. So apparently this heater is the right size/type for a scamp 16'? The layout we are looking at is a #3. Scamp dealership said the heater would need to be installed under the stove in the cabinet. I am waiting get cabinet measurements from seller but can anyone forsee any problems/issues with doing this? Would we need to cut an extra vent through the fiberglass since it originally was built with no furnace. Can any rv maintenace person do it or would we need someone familiar with scamps? I don't know how to find someone like that in CO short of just calling around.
Really wish the camper itself was closer so there weren't so many what-ifs!
J,
Either will fit fine. Both require some fitting, but nothing complicated. Any RV service center should be able to handle the job easily. Yes, you will have to cut a hole through the shell for the exhaust. Getting that lined up right is probably the hardest part of the install. You just have to be careful. The Scamp 16 normaly comes with a Suburban Nt16, 16,000 BTU furnace. Suburban discontinued the 12,000BTU version. From what I have gathered, many people believe that 12K is plenty. I certainly do, even in pretty severe circumstances. The trailer is just not that big. The Atwood is available in a 16k as well, but at full price. My Suburban is out of a 2010 trailer and I'll be selling it too. That's an option, but I can tell you that I would NOT recommmend it to a friend. It works fine but the noise bothers alot of people, including me. Some don't mind it. There is no cost effective way to fix it either and that is why I'm pulling it.

David
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:03 PM   #11
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J,
Either will fit fine. Both require some fitting, but nothing complicated. Any RV service center should be able to handle the job easily. Yes, you will have to cut a hole through the shell for the exhaust. Getting that lined up right is probably the hardest part of the install. You just have to be careful. The Scamp 16 normaly comes with a Suburban Nt16, 16,000 BTU furnace. Suburban discontinued the 12,000BTU version. From what I have gathered, many people believe that 12K is plenty. I certainly do, even in pretty severe circumstances. The trailer is just not that big. The Atwood is available in a 16k as well, but at full price. My Suburban is out of a 2010 trailer and I'll be selling it too. That's an option, but I can tell you that I would NOT recommmend it to a friend. It works fine but the noise bothers alot of people, including me. Some don't mind it. There is no cost effective way to fix it either and that is why I'm pulling it.

David
So more questions... if we ended up with a different scamp or casita or what have you (16/17') that already had a furnace- but if we thought that one was too loud, it sounds like it wouldn't be too tough to just switch out for one of these atwoods?
And also, do you know whether the sound difference could have to do with the btu's - ie if we went with a 16,000 btu atwood, would it be louder than a 12,000? Sorry for all the questions, I hope someone else can learn from this as well!
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:32 PM   #12
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So more questions... if we ended up with a different scamp or casita or what have you (16/17') that already had a furnace- but if we thought that one was too loud, it sounds like it wouldn't be too tough to just switch out for one of these atwoods?
And also, do you know whether the sound difference could have to do with the btu's - ie if we went with a 16,000 btu atwood, would it be louder than a 12,000? Sorry for all the questions, I hope someone else can learn from this as well!
All good questions J. Switching from an existing Suburban to the Atwood is a little tougher. That is what I'm doing. Both the cutout for the cabinet passthrough and the exhaust are different. For the cabinet I'm making a new fiberglass cover plate. For the exhaust, I will have to do something similar most likely. I've actually got another idea, but that's another story. It's not rocket science and I may do a write-up on my conversion. We'll see. Again, an RV shop should be able to handle the work. You can order fiberglass panels custom cut from Scamp. I have a big piece that I am using for a number of projects. The noise is not affected by the BTU rating. Primarily it is the fan design. The Suburbans use a blade fan, and the Atwoods use a squirrel cage. The cage is much quieter in operation. Most blowers like the ones in car heating systems use squirrel cages. They can move more air at lower speeds. In general, I think the Atwood is just better made too.

David
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:49 PM   #13
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David (or anyone else!) sounds like you have been researching furnaces. I want to add one to our Scamp 16 that does not have one at present. I am undecided about seeing if Lill Snoozy has any left or going with the Atwood 8012 that has the 1.8 amp draw. We would be mainly boondocking so wondering if I would regret going with the higher amp draw over the long run even though the furnace is about $200 cheaper. We would mainly be camping for weekends with the occasional longer trip. I just have 1 battery at present.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:21 PM   #14
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If boondocking that furnace will need a good battery fully charged. I boondocked once and furnace did not even last the night because the battery went dead at 5 AM (it was snowing outside). The way I understand it you need electricity to make the furnace work.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:00 PM   #15
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David (or anyone else!) sounds like you have been researching furnaces. I want to add one to our Scamp 16 that does not have one at present. I am undecided about seeing if Lill Snoozy has any left or going with the Atwood 8012 that has the 1.8 amp draw. We would be mainly boondocking so wondering if I would regret going with the higher amp draw over the long run even though the furnace is about $200 cheaper. We would mainly be camping for weekends with the occasional longer trip. I just have 1 battery at present.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
Well, I was going to do a thread on the conversion when I get the parts, but I'll let the cat out of the bag. The 7912 and 8012 are identical except for 2 parts: the blower motor and the room air fan. The combustion fan is the same. I have the part numbers here somewhere. Change those parts and you have an 8012. Lil Snoozies deal with the conversion parts is still about $150 cheaper than a new 8012, plus now you have a new spare motor to sell. The 7912 draws 3.4 amps and has the bigger motor so that it can support multiple exits (up to 3) for the room air through optional ducts. If you convert to 8012 you just use the front discharge and leave the ducts blanked off. My Suburban drew similar current and would run 5 to 7 days on a G27 battery, with no other significant draws (LED lights and water pump). The smaller motor should extend that almost double. It should be even quieter as well.

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If boondocking that furnace will need a good battery fully charged. I boondocked once and furnace did not even last the night because the battery went dead at 5 AM (it was snowing outside). The way I understand it you need electricity to make the furnace work.
Karalyn, I think something else was going on. Probably your battery was run down a good bit to start with. No way the furnace will run a charged battery dead over night. Mine pretty much always goes 5 days and sometimes a bit longer on a charge. Yes, you do need electricity to run the blower motor and a wee bit to run the electronics.

David
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:11 PM   #16
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Yes, you do need electricity to run the blower motor and a wee bit to run the electronics.

David
Wait now I am confused! I thought these furnaces could run strictly on battery and propane? Like with the old coleman pup we have, we can go a few nights using our forced air furnace without ANY electricity at all (because we also boondock only). So you are saying that you can't do this with these furnaces or am I misunderstanding?

(we just use the typical 12v marine deep cycle and make sure to trickle charge for a few days before we go so it is really charged)
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:41 PM   #17
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Wait now I am confused! I thought these furnaces could run strictly on battery and propane? Like with the old coleman pup we have, we can go a few nights using our forced air furnace without ANY electricity at all (because we also boondock only). So you are saying that you can't do this with these furnaces or am I misunderstanding?

(we just use the typical 12v marine deep cycle and make sure to trickle charge for a few days before we go so it is really charged)
Sorry if I confused you! That stuff coming out of the battery IS electricity . Yep, the furnaces all run on 12V from the battery. Mostly it is to run the blower which only runs part time.

David
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:56 PM   #18
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Sorry if I confused you! That stuff coming out of the battery IS electricity . Yep, the furnaces all run on 12V from the battery. Mostly it is to run the blower which only runs part time.

David
oh-- ha ha ha! Goes to show you how much I really know about this stuff! Soooo.... we can definitely go somewhere where we don't have to plug into the grid and we just have a battery and propane and we can most likely get away with a few nights of furnace use, as long as we do not use lights/etc. too much. And to further clarify, you are saying that this atwood battery from lil snoozy would be less of a drain on a battery than pretty much any other comparable furnace?
gawd I almost think I should just get one to get one, even if we don't end up getting the albert lea scamp with no furnace...

think asking for a "maybe not needed" new furnace (on top of the used casita or scamp I am already begging for for x-mas) is too much?
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:16 PM   #19
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oh-- ha ha ha! Goes to show you how much I really know about this stuff! Soooo.... we can definitely go somewhere where we don't have to plug into the grid and we just have a battery and propane and we can most likely get away with a few nights of furnace use, as long as we do not use lights/etc. too much. And to further clarify, you are saying that this atwood battery from lil snoozy would be less of a drain on a battery than pretty much any other comparable furnace?
gawd I almost think I should just get one to get one, even if we don't end up getting the albert lea scamp with no furnace...

think asking for a "maybe not needed" new furnace (on top of the used casita or scamp I am already begging for for x-mas) is too much?
The furnace Snoozy has (the 7912) draws 3.4 amps which is typical of all these furnaces, however, that furnace can be easily converted to the model 8012 for under $100. The 8012 is VERY low draw >> 1.8 amps. I'm a boondocker too, so that is what I'm doing. I don't know of any other option that draws so little current. I think that is why it was carried to Mt. Everest. With a decent solar panal to top off the battery, you could run the 8012 basically forever if you had the gas.
Snoozy bought these before they decided to go all electric, so they are selling them for a price you will never beat. Even if you don't do the low amp conversion, the 7912 is still a quieter furnace than the Suburban and a little easier on gas. I have no dog in this hunt, but you can google "Atwood Everest 7912-II" or "Atwood Everest 8012-II" and compare prices. Also, they usually don't come with a thermostat, I don't think. Snoozy throws one in. I'm not trying to talk you into anything, just telling you what I have found.

David
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:06 AM   #20
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Oh that really interesting David, I am so glad I posted! Can't wait for your installation post, the more detail the better. Also the part #'s and where you got them would be great. Also do you think this is something an 'average person' could tackle? Thnaks so much.
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