construction question from a newby.

[Heathc]

i was wondering if the fiberglass trailers have a single wall construction or double wall? if they are double wall, is there anything in between the 2 layers? i assume most of them have wood floors?

[Raya]

That depends on the trailer brand. In the 13-ers, for example, there are just a few basic "families" of trailers, which were made from the same (or tweaked) molds.

Boler and clones (Scamp/Casita/Trail-mite/Love Bug, etc.)
These have single shells. Most Bolers and also the pre-mid-80's Scamps have a closed-cell combination insulation and wall surface foam called Ensolite. Later Scamps have Reflectix insulation and "rat fur" fuzzy fabric covering. Casitas have a carpet covering.

Cloud and clones (Burro, U-haul, Companion, etc.)
These have what are referred to as "double hulls" although they are actually single-shelled trailers with a very extensive liner, to my mind. So the inside is also smooth fiberglass with the exception of a strip along the centerline, the insides of the lockers, and the floor. Some of the Burros have fiberglass batt insulation between the shells; the U-hauls don't; and I don't know about the others.

Compact Jr. and clones (Compact II, Hunter I, Trails West Campster, etc.)
These are single-walled trailers that either have no insulation (just the back of the fiberglass is painted) or have a layer of open celled quilted foam with a vinyl covering. These have a pop-top center portion with canvas walls.

Trillium and clones (Surfside, new Trillium, Escape, etc.)
These have a single shell with Ensolite insulation (although the new Trillium and the Escape I think have something like Reflectix with vinyl over it*).

All of the trailers that I know of have a wood or wood-cored floor. Some, like Scamp, are waferboard type wood with a resin coating, some, like Boler and Trillium have a sandwich floor of plywood core with a fiberglass layer on each side. The Compact family has a partial wood floor, with the fiberglass shell running around and providing the first foot or so of bottom (in the cabinets and bunks).

I've probably left some out, but these are the major ones I can think of.

Raya

*See correction below

[Ken C]

Oliver trailers have a double wall.

[Robin G]

Oliver trailers have a double wall.

If I remember right so are the EggCampers. But bet a owner could fill us in.

[Raya]

I thought Heath said (in another thread) that he was looking for a 13' to 16' trailer so I left out the Oliver, thinking that it started at 17' () That's also why I didn't mention the Boler 17, etc.

I also want to clarify a couple of things I noted above:

1) There are some variations in what I noted, such as some early Boler 13's having a wooden floor, and etc. I was trying to summarize the main points so I left out some details that only pertained to certain rarer models.

2) I've learned that the Escape trailers don't use Reflectix covered by vinyl, but instead use a foam-backed vinyl wall covering. I'm guessing that, unlike Ensolite, it is an open celled foam, but I don't know that for sure. I bet someone else does though

[Donna D.]

2) I've learned that the Escape trailers don't use Reflectix covered by vinyl, but instead use a foam-backed vinyl wall covering. I'm guessing that, unlike Ensolite, it is an open celled foam, but I don't know that for sure. I bet someone else does though

I bet it's closed-cell, doubt Reace would put anything in an Escape that would soak up water like a sponge. From the Escape website:
"Insulated Interior
Fire rated, durable, soft-touch vinyl headliner with 3/8" foam backing keeps the Escape warm in the winter, and cool in the summer with easy cleaning. Thermal windows and extra insulation package available."

[Raya]

I understand what you're saying, Donna. I just haven't seen a foam-backed vinyl that was closed cell on the market recently. Most of the foam-backed vinyls made now for the marine or headliner industry do use open cell foam, to my knowledge.... but maybe I have that wrong

I see that they say "3/8" foam backing" in your quote, but I don't see that they specify open or closed cell. Would be interesting to know for sure. It's possible that they are assuming the trailer won't be wet on the inside, and after all cushions are made of open cell foam (that said, I do like the closed-cell Ensolite).

Raya

[Donna D.]

I just asked if anyone knew over on the EscapeForum... Reace and Tammy pop in to answer questions. I'll let everyone know when I find out.

[Heathc]

wow! thanks for the great info!

[Heath G.]

Heathc, and wow what are the chances of finding another person with our name and on the same forum. well just saying hi and welcome talk to you another time.

[Steve M.]

Oliver trailers have a double wall.

That is correct. The Oliver's floor is gelcoated fiberglass over the aluminum frame and tanks, etc.; it is molded as part of the interior and is covered with vinyl tile. There is no wood or wood product there or below the floor. The insulation on our Oliver is a sprayed-on ceramic product called LizardSkin, which also serves as a sound barrier.

Steve

[Raya]

Steve,

I'm just curious: What is it on the Oliver that gives structural strength to the floor? I come from the boating world, and a "solid" fiberglass deck would have to be very very thick in order to be firm and supportive. Usually the decks are fiberglass on each side with a thin layer of wood in the middle. This separates the "skins" and puts them in tension (like an I-beam) and results in rigid deck that's very light for how strong it is. But without the wood in the middle there would have to be a lot of cross beams to make things rigid (indeed, a few boats are built this way but they are typically heavier or the deck is a bit springy).

So if the Oliver doesn't have a core in the floor, do they get their strength and rigidity from a multitude of support beams? Or...? Maybe a foam core? The Oliver looks like a great trailer, and my curiosity is piqued

(And Heath, sorry about hijacking your thread with trailers over 16')

Raya

[Heathc]

Heathc, and wow what are the chances of finding another person with our name and on the same forum. well just saying hi and welcome talk to you another time.

i would say slim! haha! also, i used to date a girl named Candy! not anymore though.

[Heathc]

Steve,

I'm just curious: What is it on the Oliver that gives structural strength to the floor? I come from the boating world, and a "solid" fiberglass deck would have to be very very thick in order to be firm and supportive. Usually the decks are fiberglass on each side with a thin layer of wood in the middle. This separates the "skins" and puts them in tension (like an I-beam) and results in rigid deck that's very light for how strong it is. But without the wood in the middle there would have to be a lot of cross beams to make things rigid (indeed, a few boats are built this way but they are typically heavier or the deck is a bit springy).

So if the Oliver doesn't have a core in the floor, do they get their strength and rigidity from a multitude of support beams? Or...? Maybe a foam core? The Oliver looks like a great trailer, and my curiosity is piqued

(And Heath, sorry about hijacking your thread with trailers over 16')

Raya

no worries! i'll learn all i can, thanks!

[Donna D.]

I just asked if anyone knew over on the EscapeForum... Reace and Tammy pop in to answer questions. I'll let everyone know when I find out.

GOT THE ANSWER, RIGHT FROM TAMMY:
"Hi All,

It is a closed cell foam. - High density.

Tammy"

And ... Escape gets the vinyl adhered to the foam for them by another company.

[Raya]

Sweet! Thanks, Donna

I guess the next question is whether they do or would sell that "fabric" as a "part." It seems like there is a call for something along the lines of the vinyl-covered-Ensolite - people always seem to be asking about it.

Thanks again for checking on the closed vs. open celled foam - I love follow-up!

Raya

[Donna D.]

Sweet! Thanks, Donna

I guess the next question is whether they do or would sell that "fabric" as a "part." It seems like there is a call for something along the lines of the vinyl-covered-Ensolite - people always seem to be asking about it.

Thanks again for checking on the closed vs. open celled foam - I love follow-up!

Raya

Yes, Raya... I'm checking on the availability to buy the vinyl/foam through their parts department. I know plenty of non-Escape people are looking to buy replacements for poor worn out Ensolite. At this point, I don't know if Reace and Tammy want to put their effort into parts rather than the whole trailer. There again, I'll let everyone know what I find out.

[Heath G.]

Donna, thanks for the research, and yes other would love to get our hands on that. I think it would work good for the 72 compact of mine. It need something.

[Frederick L. Simson]

I'm checking on the availability to buy the vinyl/foam through their parts department. I know plenty of non-Escape people are looking to buy ...

I have fantasized about dragging my non-insulated Fiber Stream up to Canada so Reace & Tammy can install a proper interior!

[Steve M.]

Steve,

I'm just curious: What is it on the Oliver that gives structural strength to the floor? I come from the boating world, and a "solid" fiberglass deck would have to be very very thick in order to be firm and supportive. Usually the decks are fiberglass on each side with a thin layer of wood in the middle. This separates the "skins" and puts them in tension (like an I-beam) and results in rigid deck that's very light for how strong it is. But without the wood in the middle there would have to be a lot of cross beams to make things rigid (indeed, a few boats are built this way but they are typically heavier or the deck is a bit springy).

So if the Oliver doesn't have a core in the floor, do they get their strength and rigidity from a multitude of support beams? Or...? Maybe a foam core? The Oliver looks like a great trailer, and my curiosity is piqued

(And Heath, sorry about hijacking your thread with trailers over 16')

Raya

Raya,

Oliver uses a 1/2-inch-thick plastic and fiber honeycomb to back up the fiberglass in key structural areas where additional strength is needed. They permeate this with resin and lay another layer of fiberglass to make what appears to me to be an amazingly strong structure that is still relatively light. I think that Oliver used this honeycomb to strengthen the floor. In addition, the floor rests on an aluminum box beam, running lengthwise, flanked by the freshwater and graywater tanks, which are flush with the top of the beam. The result is a very strong floor, which we have not found to deflect at all, even with five adults standing on the floor.

I can confirm your impression that the Oliver is a great trailer. I, too, am familiar with the fiberglass boating world, and I also once worked in quality control in a fiberglass molding factory. The Oliver is well thought out and beautifully made, and the fit and finish in the construction are first rate. We really love it.

Steve