Count the cost(and the intent) - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 12-18-2016, 06:31 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
Alabama Has just passes legislation to rebuild some state parks and allow private vendors ro run them again and hull them out for us like they did the last time.
But that same law allows the parks to keep their gate receipts without the state legislators raiding the Park System bank account to make up for losses in the State's general fund. So it's not all bad. I still think that whole private vendor thing was put into the law just so the State can farm out the management of the new state conference center being built at Gulf State Park - probably some quid pro quo to appease high-dollar developers who were drooling at the thought of acquiring Gulf State Park's miles of prime coastal real estate to develop privately after Hurricane Ivan tore the place up so badly back in 2004. But the law still may have opened the proverbial Pandora's Box with consequences far beyond it's intent. Time will tell....
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:03 PM   #16
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I refuse to discuss politics, ever. The only thing I can add to this thread is YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU. So, you go to a gathering that you've never attended and IT'S EXPENSIVE. OR, you budget fuel costs and go to a setting you've NEVER BEEN TO. You've made memories. Your budget isn't my budget and your memories won't be mine. BUT make those memories that will last you forever and enjoy every flippin' minute because they may NEVER pass this way again...
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
I refuse to discuss politics, ever. The only thing I can add to this thread is YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU. So, you go to a gathering that you've never attended and IT'S EXPENSIVE. OR, you budget fuel costs and go to a setting you've NEVER BEEN TO. You've made memories. Your budget isn't my budget and your memories won't be mine. BUT make those memories that will last you forever and enjoy every flippin' minute because they may NEVER pass this way again...
Thanks Donna,,,!
I was about to start whinning too but your post woke me up.
We didn't go on our annual trip to SoCal in 2016 because our dollar was
hurtin so bad against yours. Almost the same this year but we booked anyway because I realized after workin for 50 years,,, I'm gonna start getting younger when?
Fred
Plus I lost a dear friend in oct. that was gonna live forever in my eyes.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:25 PM   #18
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Public lands belong to you and I and are we not paying taxes.

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Certain people in certain state governments (and Fed) would like nothing more than to privatize much of our public lands. I would suppose this includes their state parks and campgrounds to a large extent. On one hand, I agree that the folks who actually use these areas should pay a fair share of the costs. However, even though I almost never use these areas, I love knowing they are there and being properly maintained and they are ready for me at a moments notice. Personally, I have no problem with state and federal parks, campgrounds, forests, etc., etc. being supported largely with tax dollars. Public lands is what makes this country special. But we seem to keep electing people who would just as soon turn them over to corporations in order to balance their budgets.
:already either USA and or Canada for the Feds, States, Provinces to look after these parks and not gouge us again with fees? I tell my wife I can just about go anywhere in British Columbia and find a nice place to park and not be in a Campground paying high fees with no one closer than maybe 100 miles, I get to see nature first hand, I could if able put a boat into the lake or ocean but I No longer can do this but I would not be paying fees to do this. If campgrounds kept their fees at $30 for all services then I Might consider staying in them occasionally. Most of these campgrounds have been around for many years and have made a good living off of campers. Why should I be paying $45/$50 a night?
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:38 PM   #19
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I think the Wisconsin State Parks are one of the best deals out there. They have some some of the best outdoor locations for camping I have seen in my travels. I think they have a great staff of dedicated state employees and many have active "friends" organizations.

I much prefer the Wisconsin parks over those of neighboring states, and based on the number of out of state visitors there are a lot of those who agree. I have never balked at paying their fees as I have always associated value with what I received in return.

Now being a resident I do pay fees that are lower than non residents, but I do pay taxes, and substantial ones, to be a resident. I do not find the fees in this state much different than those beautiful provincial parks, where I also find value. Also, the state parks are still better priced when compared to private campgrounds.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:52 AM   #20
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Count the cost(and the intent)

That's a good counterpoint, Paul. Like real estate, it's about location, location, location.

I happily pay $35/night for a no-hookup site with token hot showers at South Carlsbad State Beach near San Diego, and I'd pay more if I had to. On the other hand, I would resent paying that much for a full-hookup site with free hot showers at a nondescript campground off the freeway for an overnight stop.

Wisconsin's nickel-and-dime approach to add-on fees gives me pause, though. It's depressingly like the major airlines, and the reason I don't fly anywhere Southwest doesn't go.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:43 AM   #21
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I think the Wisconsin State Parks are one of the best deals out there. They have some some of the best outdoor locations for camping I have seen in my travels. I think they have a great staff of dedicated state employees and many have active "friends" organizations.

I much prefer the Wisconsin parks over those of neighboring states, and based on the number of out of state visitors there are a lot of those who agree. I have never balked at paying their fees as I have always associated value with what I received in return.

Now being a resident I do pay fees that are lower than non residents, but I do pay taxes, and substantial ones, to be a resident. I do not find the fees in this state much different than those beautiful provincial parks, where I also find value. Also, the state parks are still better priced when compared to private campgrounds.
You and I live in the same state and our vision of the State of Wisconsin is 180 deg apart . This forum is not the place for a discussion on that subject
My point was that with the increased camping fees , increased entrance fees , increased activities fees , increased reservation fees, plus the adding of state sales tax on all of the above , you have raised the price to a point where many Wisconsin citizens can not afford to visit their own parks.
Wisconsin has deferred necessary park maintenance / upgrades for many years due to lack of money and now they have cut their funding further. We have been to Wisconsin State Parks where the water was unfit to drink , so they shut the water off .
I have seen bathrooms at WSP that were shutdown due to inoperative plumbing fixtures or shower houses closed because the structure was unsafe and crumbling.
May programs for children have been eliminated

A one nights stay in a Wisconsin State Park is fast approaching $60 when you add up the camping fee , entrance fee , reservation fee and then sales tax on all of it.
You may believe $50 or $60 / night is a bargain , I DO NOT!!!
We no longer camp in Wisconsin and go to neighboring states.
Try Iowa State Parks , better facilities and far cheaper .
Iowa wants tourism , Wisconsin does not.


We stayed at a Iowa State Park = $16 camping fee. ( water and electric ) $3 reservation fee + $0 park entrance fee + $0 State Sales Tax = Total $19
Wisconsin State Park = $27 camping fee ( electric only ) + $10 reservation fee + $11 entrance fee + sales tax on everything. Total = well over $50
Plus the Iowa State Park had brand new bathrooms and showers
Plus the water was safe to drink.
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:04 AM   #22
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Here in TN, our current administration has been a strong advocate of privatization. There is a lot of evidence that they are letting the parks deteriorate in order to better make their case. Our public lands are an irreplaceable resource. There is no more land being added to the public domain. Can you imagine a Yellowstone or Great Smokies being established today? We have a long history of private interests taking advantage of public property for their own enrichment. Grazing, mining, timber, concessions all come to mind. Of course, this is bordering on politics, but that is the large elephant sitting in the corner, isn't it? As people who enjoy our hobby primarily on public lands, we are inconsistent if we fail to support policies the strengthen public ownership. Fox in the henhouse and all that. I'm new here, though I've lurked for years. If this post is somehow inappropriate, please forgive me and delete it.
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:11 AM   #23
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The Vermont state parks are self funded. I've been to about 1/3 of them. A site is $18. If it's a "premium" site, on the pond for example, add $2. Out of state, add $2. Bring Fido, add $1. A shower $.50 - .$75 depending how quick you are. Total cost, less than $24.

Most of the parks are on water and have a sandy beach, swim at your own risk.There is usually a dump station, free to guests. There are no hook ups. There's no sales tax, rooms and meals tax, registration fee etc. Typically there is a playground, horseshoe pits, canoe, kayak, row boat rentals and hiking trails. They also sell firewood and ice. There's no swimming pool, no water slide. No disc golf, no tennis courts. The state runs it's own reservation system. No Reserve America. The goal is to attract campers to the state parks. Being affordable keeps the parks busy all summer.

I guess my point is that if Vermont can rent you a camp site for $24 a night, and remain self funded, others should be able to aswell.
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:51 AM   #24
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Here in TN, our current administration has been a strong advocate of privatization. There is a lot of evidence that they are letting the parks deteriorate in order to better make their case. Our public lands are an irreplaceable resource. There is no more land being added to the public domain. Can you imagine a Yellowstone or Great Smokies being established today? We have a long history of private interests taking advantage of public property for their own enrichment. Grazing, mining, timber, concessions all come to mind. Of course, this is bordering on politics, but that is the large elephant sitting in the corner, isn't it? As people who enjoy our hobby primarily on public lands, we are inconsistent if we fail to support policies the strengthen public ownership. Fox in the henhouse and all that. I'm new here, though I've lurked for years. If this post is somehow inappropriate, please forgive me and delete it.
Since this is the second reference to privatization which I have noticed, I just wanted to point out that there is a profound difference between privatization and contract coordination.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:22 PM   #25
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Since this is the second reference to privatization which I have noticed, I just wanted to point out that there is a profound difference between privatization and contract coordination.
There may be a difference but if the end results are the same then what difference does it make. The park reservation system was a huge source of revenue for many State Park systems . When the reservation systems were farmed out to out of state concerns, the park system lost , the in state jobs were lost and so we're the state / local taxes payed by the reservation systems employees . The only one that gained was Reserve America .
If we are going to sell off or privatize our public parks then the public should receive the benefits .
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:57 PM   #26
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Hi, DonnaD, Jon, good posts, thanks! Agreed. We pay what we have to in order to go where we want and when...and when we can't afford it, we'll do something else, cheaper. And fun campgrounds are more interesting than blah ones...we're still working on a "best of" list for where we most want to go.


There are so MANY choices just in WA and OR!


BEST
Kai
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:52 PM   #27
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I'm not sure what "contract coordination" means in this context, but if it means what is commonly known as "contracting out," then I agree with Steve. If it walks like a duck.... There are plenty of funding options, be it fees, general revenues or some combination. Something may work in one state that would be less palatable in another. Bring in a third entity whose primary goal is to profit from a situation where there was no profit previously, well somebody is going to pay more!
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:11 PM   #28
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There may be a difference but if the end results are the same then what difference does it make. The park reservation system was a huge source of revenue for many State Park systems . When the reservation systems were farmed out to out of state concerns, the park system lost , the in state jobs were lost and so we're the state / local taxes payed by the reservation systems employees . The only one that gained was Reserve America .
If we are going to sell off or privatize our public parks then the public should receive the benefits .
An example... Chicago SOLD (privatized) the rights to street parking in the city.The buyer then collected the money and kept it. They even used municipal enforcement to collect fines for themselves.
Meanwhile, the city squandered the purchase money and left the public at the mercy of pirates.

A coordinated contract would have left the ownership and management of parking in the hands of the city, the contract owner would simply provide the personnel and their direct supervision to maintain and collect parking fees for the city. The city(taxpayers) would still receive the funds and the city would collect the fines. This would reduce the number of direct government employees but it would also maintain the quality of service at a reduced cost to the taxpayer.

I do understand there are arguments against coordinated contracts and I am not here endorsing the practice. I am merely pointing out that there is a difference. I see no merit to the former, but the latter has some legitimate applications.
Some things need to be privatized, but not legitimate government functions. Remember ROBOCOP?!
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