Count the cost(and the intent) - Page 4 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 12-20-2016, 08:12 PM   #43
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My wife and I have a goal of visiting every state park in MN. We have approximately 20 left. We are so appreciative of our state park system. Beautiful parks, great staff, clean, and family friendly. I feel our rates are fair and our system is strong for the future.
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Old 12-21-2016, 08:37 AM   #44
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We've considered doing something like that here in WA and OR. It's achievable, though not easy. A stellar goal regardless!


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Old 12-21-2016, 09:24 AM   #45
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Donna is right on. As one who retired from one of the big agencies in the woods, I can tell you that the people on the ground have no way to change any rules. I told people to contact their Congressional Reps. It does get tiring to listen to complaints about laws that are passed, but we usually manage to listen and remain calm. I've actually had people threatening to get me fired when I did not allow them to break the law--no fines or tickets, just a stop and a recommendation that they find another spot to cut firewood in. And I wasn't really in a position that contacted people all the time--I worked with those evil loggers you talk about.

Yes, many of the rules are stupid, but they are there until folks wise up and get the rules changed. Somebody somewhere did something that inspired our "leaders" to make a rule. The peons on the ground are not the people to talk to about change. Write to Congress about National Parks and Forests (do not confuse the two). Write to your state reps about state issues. Fill out the surveys that some state parks send out after you've camped there. Maybe it might make a difference.
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Old 12-21-2016, 09:58 AM   #46
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.The peons on the ground are not the people to talk to about change. Write to Congress about National Parks and Forests (do not confuse the two)
Good advice.

I'm not a fan of the "just pay it" , just accept argument. Most park systems are run by bureaucrats that are there for a short time. No one ever climbed the ladder by maintaining the status quo. Nothing to put on the resume. I'm not interested in paying for there career advancement. A little heat from the top can keep things honest.
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Old 12-21-2016, 09:59 AM   #47
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Back to the point...
Nit picking instead of honest pricing...
Today I heard that some airlines now advertise low fares and then charge a hundred dollars for a carry on and an extra fee for a place to sit during the flight!.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Public lands and state parks benefit everyone and not just those who visit.
Public funding for their preservation and up keep is a public responsibility.

There are those who wish to deny public access to federal lands, thereby condemning them to eventual destruction and loss of public funding.
Those who visit the parks vote to support their existence. Those who don't, will not support them politically.

This principle applies to state as well as federal lands.
If arcane pricing and fee structures continue to displace honest pricing and a fairly shared burden, the public will be hesitant to take their families to them, thus raising a generation without the memories or the support for public lands and parks. That lack of support will cause a further languishing into disrepair or even the private sale of a precious resource.

Where I live we pay taxes for fire and ambulance protection. On top of that support there is a $1200 fee attached for a ride as short as a single block.
Some user fees may be justified, but I really don't want to live in a world with toll sidewalks. (step on a crack and break the citizens back?)
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:15 AM   #48
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There are 2 parks in Central Wisconsin, one county , one state.
They are approx 10 miles apart and both adjoin the same river
The County Park has water and electric sites , a dump station , boat ramp , new bathrooms / showers , upgraded electric, and sells firewood at a reasonable price .
The State Park has a few sites with electric , none with water , old run down restrooms and facilities, and expensive firewood.
The County Park charges $23 a night total ( NO entrance fee NO Park Sticker)
The State Park charges $27 a night plus you need to buy a $25 park sticker and pay State Sales tax

Guess which park is full all summer and which one is sitting half empty. Guess which one is making money and which one is loosing money ?
Raising prices in private industry to increase your revenues / profit often only works if there is no or little competition. The rules of economics do apply to government as well
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:41 AM   #49
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Back to the point...
Nit picking instead of honest pricing...
Floyd, I don't see that we were off point. Complaining here might make you feel good but it will not solve your problem. Have you researched who you can write to or call that may be able to address your concerns?
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:40 PM   #50
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...The Bristlecone Forest in eastern CA is the opposite. No entrance fee. An amazing place with fantastic historical and scientific significance. A large beautiful campground with a "suggested" donation of only $5. per night. A visitor's center and trails worth spending several days to fully comprehend. Ranger guided walks with explanations that reveal wonders I never would have seen on my own. It's a real gem.

Interesting too, that I finally was able to build my home on five acres that backs up to BLM land in rural Nevada and the Pine Nut mountains. Now I find I have much less desire to "get away". We're also getting very good at avoiding the modern hassles that seem to often accompany camping trips that should really be about peace and quiet, such as lots of fees and lots of traffic.
Thanks for mentioning the Bristlecone Pine Forest and nearby CG. I wish I'd been aware of it previously on one of my two trips to Yosemite. I unwittingly passed by (on 168) within a few miles of this place on one of those camping trips. If there ever is a next time, now I know.

Your new home location sounds like a bit of paradise. I'm happy for you, that you found a nice, quiet spot adjoining BLM land.
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Old 12-21-2016, 01:31 PM   #51
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Mike,

Thanks for the nice comments.

A little teaser on the Bristlecone forest: These are the oldest living trees and can be up to 5,000 years old. The wood is very rot resistant and the dolomite soil offers a very harsh environment for them. Once a tree dies it can stand for another 3000 years before falling. Then once down, they can last for still more time.

So, core samples can be drawn from living trees and overlayed against dead tree cores which can be overlayed against the rings of down trees that have had sections cut out. This allows a direct measurement back to nearly twelve thousand years by counting tree rings as small as 100 per inch!

Using this direct measurement, it was determined that the carbon dating system, used for dating so many things, had an error. This error was corrected using tree rings from the Bristlecone Pines.

It's hard to comprehend the idea that those trees, right there in front of you, have been there for that long and are growing in a sedimentary sea bottom, at a high elevation.

This begins to tie in with the Grand Canyon and it's evolutionary rise and fall of so many sea beds over millions of years that made the various layers a mile thick.

Anyone who is skeptical about the age of things should visit this place and actually count some tree rings. You can look at a living tree that may have been alive when the pyramids were built. You are right there in the Sierras at 10,000 feet and standing on an ancient sea bed.

When the trees are young, they are beautiful and symetrical, like Christmas trees. But over time, with ice storms, wind, etc, they become battered and the bark torn off in areas. Eventually there will only be a narrow bark strip running up the trunk to maybe one viable branch. The ground can erode away at around a meter every thousand years exposing the root structure. This kind of terrible environment, combined with the poor dolomite soil is why these trees last so long. In better areas they might only last several hundred or a thousand years and grow much faster.

At the end of the day, you can return to your trailer at the camp site, have a campfire and ponder the day's discoveries. I've never seen it crowded at all with about 50 campsites and maybe 10 campers. All for $5. per night and no entrance fee.
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Old 12-21-2016, 01:37 PM   #52
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Floyd, I don't see that we were off point. Complaining here might make you feel good but it will not solve your problem. Have you researched who you can write to or call that may be able to address your concerns?
I don't really have a problem,Wisconsin does.
I simply don't visit Wisconsin State Parks, unless I want to attend a ScampCamp with friends who have chosen one of these parks as a rally site.
I did call Pollyanna,and she sounded pessimistic about affecting any change.

Bringing this discussion here was my point, and all the responses made me feel all warm inside. Thank you for your response, which shows that I am reaching my intended audience.
Public awareness often gets more results than a dismissive conversation with a politician, especially if he knows I can't vote for him.
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Old 12-22-2016, 01:36 AM   #53
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Crowwing, I think my favorite places are the Adirondacks in NY

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My wife and I have a goal of visiting every state park in MN. We have approximately 20 left. We are so appreciative of our state park system. Beautiful parks, great staff, clean, and family friendly. I feel our rates are fair and our system is strong for the future.
John
:Zion national park just out of site plus Arches, Monument Valley, Dead Horse Canyon, the News Paper Park, South Grand Canyon, there are quite a few others but cannot recall them off the top of my head right now.
Yellowstone is another, Crazy Horse was a good one.
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Old 12-22-2016, 07:46 AM   #54
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Stude, Crowwing--all:


Arches was wonderful, though we didn't camp there. We also didn't hike. But we did get lost out in the desert in Paul's 4WD Jeep for many hours and for a while thought we were going to be Coyote food.


Yellowstone--wonderful, again, we didn't camp there. We did get held up by a herd of bison--which are a lot bigger up close...with enormous eyes and huge nostrils! (They blocked our jeep and walked alongside it for a long, ambling while). Wolf and Bear Haven was fab.


Zion is on a bucket list, as are many others mentioned. Adding Bristlecone Pine, too.


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Old 12-22-2016, 08:13 AM   #55
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Hi: floyd... Canada's National Pk's have free entry for 2017 in honour of our 150th B-day. What that means is you don't have to pay to get in the park so you can stop to pay to camp.
Peeling away the thin veneer of beau rock racy, one layer at a time!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
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Old 12-22-2016, 01:34 PM   #56
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I'm thinking you folks are all missing the point on Federal, State or Provincial parks (US/Canada). They were largely set up to set aside wilderness for future generations and wildlife. The camping was added - sometimes with a fight - to help justify the expense. Private parks are set up only to provide camping. Me, I'm a socialist and an environmentalist so I'm okay with my tax dollars supporting the environment. And camping - frankly I think the lower rate should go to those with kids, not the seniors. Here's a good reference to Environmental Deficit going on in our kids. PS being in an old growth forest promotes focus, lowers blood pressure, reduces asthma incidents and other respiratory issues in addition to helping diabetics maintain better blood sugar - current research is looking into how fungus and bacterias present in these forest help with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_deficit_disorder.
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