Count the cost(and the intent)

[Sid]

Originally Posted by sokhapkin

"America The Beautiful" pass doesn't provide 50% discount at NPS, NFS, BLM and COE camp grounds.

We camp quite a bit in Superior National Forest campgrounds and they do offer a 50% discount. I just called them to verify. A couple of exceptions do exist like Denali national park but those are few and far between.
As always call ahead to be sure.
Sid

[Raspy]

On our last trip to the Grand Canyon, I used my Senior Pass to get in free and camp for 1/2 price.

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by floyd

At $10 The Senior Pass is a gift of respect to the parents of a nation grateful for the reciprocal gift of the parks themselves.
At $80 The Senior Pass becomes merely a discount rate offered to the patrons who will likely have the lowest impact. (A grudged token of obligation)
I would not bother to buy one at the new rate for a couple of reasons.
I live east of the Mississippi where there are only ten parks compared to 49 west of it.
The Jewel of the East " Great Smoky Mountains" still has free admission.
We can seldom afford the time or expense of an RV trip to the far West, where the vast majority of National Parks reside, so it would take many years to financially justify the purchase of the Pass.
It would be impossible of course to justify the purchase based on supporting the Park system, since every visit would show support and at a higher rate.

Think about it, though: an $80, one-time fee for a lifetime of access. It's well worth having just on the off chance that you'll get to visit 4 or 5 places that take the senior pass during the remainder of your life. (Hopefully that will be a long period of time!)

[Al and Cindy K]

Thanks for the info Sid. This may be like the "campfires prohibited" interpretation. Sometimes our propane Campfire in a Can is OK and others its not. We've even been told different things at the same campground during the same stay. And, as you suggest, calling ahead is probably the best policy. I did a bit more research and came up with this and, since its on the internet, it must be true:

There are five different Federal passes>>>>>> https://www.recreation.gov/marketing...ass_Series.htm

Excerpt from above What is NOT covered by the Annual Pass?
The Annual Pass does not cover Expanded Amenity fees such as camping, boat launching, parking, special tours, special permits or ferries.

Also, some facilities and activities on Federal recreation lands (including those mentioned above) are managed by private concessionaires. The concessionaires charge for their services as any private company does and the Pass is not valid for their services.

YMMV - Al

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Think about it, though: an $80, one-time fee for a lifetime of access. It's well worth having just on the off chance that you'll get to visit 4 or 5 places that take the senior pass during the remainder of your life. (Hopefully that will be a long period of time!)

We each have spent the $10 and well worth it!
Think of it... a glance at the mortality tables will tell you that the average person will have a 14year "lifetime" left at the time of purchase at 62.
So maybe 10 years of traveling. That likely means on average, one or two actual uses of the pass, which for a couple is $160.
For those of us ( who realize your hope) the Pass may still a deal at $80 each, but for most it will end up being more costly than paying without it.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by floyd

We each have spent the $10 and well worth it!
Think of it... a glance at the mortality tables will tell you that the average person will have a 14year "lifetime" left at the time of purchase at 62.
So likely 10 years of traveling. That likely means on average, one or two actual uses of the pass, which for a couple is $160.
For those of us ( who realize your hope) the Pass is still a deal at $80, but for most it will end up being more costly than paying without it.

Last summer we saved well over $160 before July 1st. In August we went west, visited 8 national parks and stayed in numerous federal campgrounds at 1/2 price (about $10/night). We saved a lot of money. We own a camper to go camping.

[Al and Cindy K]

Floyd, I'm not sure why you're not placing any value on the half price camping benefit or assuming both partners need to buy the pass. For convenience, Cindy and I bought in at the $10 price but, other than one instance, we've never had to show both to get a price break.

Even at $80 apiece for two, we'd easily cover the $160 cost by Memorial Day of each year. Our two most visited campgrounds are Frisco at Cape Hatteras NS ($28/night) and Smokemont in Great Smoky Mtn NP ($17-$20/night), so two weeks more or less and we're good.

I have no idea how frequently the members here camp on Federal lands that honor the Senior Pass. Maybe a good subject for a poll?


Al

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Al & Cindy K

Floyd, I'm not sure why you're not placing any value on the half price camping benefit or assuming both partners need to buy the pass. For convenience, Cindy and I bought in at the $10 price but, other than one instance, we've never had to show both to get a price break.

Even at $80 apiece for two, we'd easily cover the $160 cost by Memorial Day of each year. Our two most visited campgrounds are Frisco at Cape Hatteras NS ($28/night) and Smokemont in Great Smoky Mtn NP ($17-$20/night), so two weeks more or less and we're good.

I have no idea how frequently the members here camp on Federal lands that honor the Senior Pass. Maybe a good subject for a poll?


Al

I am glad to have the Pass and the half price camping benefit is the primary reason to own one.One stay at a COE facility has paid for our passes. Federal facilities are sparse in the East and so most camping must be in state and private facilities.
I love the Smokys and have visited many times. Admission is free to the park and we stay at private campgrounds with better facilities closer to the activities, then take day trips into the park.
If you camp at half the 20 dollar rate it, two weeks would save $140 which is twenty dollars short of the 160 dollar cost of passes for a couple. Still a good deal, but it is always good to weigh your options against your needs.

[steve dunham]

My wife and I each bought a senior park pass when we turned 62 at a cost of $10 each. We have used it on a few occasions and I will admit we have gotten our money's worth out of the pass . At the upgraded price of $80 , I am not sure if we would purchase the pass and definitely would not purchase two at a cost of $160.
A large part of Northern Minnesota / Wisconsin is NFS land but we seldom if ever camp in unimproved campgrounds .
Because it doesn't work for us does not mean it can't work for others.
We live in a forested area on a lake so the idea of camping in the middle of the woods on NFS land and staring at trees has little appeal for us. We can stay home and see better scenery.

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

My wife and I bought the senior park pass when we turned 62 at a cost of $10 each. We have used it on a few occasions and I will admit we have gotten our money's worth out of the pass . At the upgraded price of $80 , I am not sure if we would purchase the pass and definitely would not purchase two at a cost of $160.
A large part of Northern Minnesota / Wisconsin is NFS land but we seldom if ever camp in unimproved campgrounds .
Because it doesn't work for us does not mean it can't work for others.
We live in a forested area on a lake so the idea of camping in the middle of the woods on NFS land and staring at trees has little appeal for us. We can stay home and see better scenery.

Remember that at the entrance station to parks that charge, they usually check the pass holder's driver's license to make sure it is the pass holder. You cannot use each other's pass if you need to reenter the park after shopping, hiking, etc, so the pass holder must be in the vehicle.

Even at $160.00 for two passes, all it takes is one trip to the southwest & the magnificent national parks in the area for you tol save money when visiting & camping in the facilities that honor them.

[floyd]

What other products would you celebrate a 700% increase in one jump as if it were wonderful.
A few years ago IllAnnoy raised the price of a vehicle Title by a 1000% in one increase.
I bought a new utility trailer kit afterwards and the Title cost more than the trailer. I still benefited from the purchase and was glad of it, just not as much as the DMV.
Since I do Pro Bono work on vehicles I see people on minimum wage having to buy more than one car in a year, title tax and license is often more than the price of the car.
My point of all this rambling is that those increased fees are small for me if I buy a new car every 10 or 15 years, but I am sympathetic those who must meet them and struggle.

[Raz]

No one is celebrating. It is what it is. The point is that even at $80 for those that would use it, it's still a great deal. And there are many, many federal camp grounds in the east, even in Illinois. But you are quite correct if they are not somewhere you would chose to stay then the cost is too high.

[Jon in AZ]

Floyd, in my experience such is the way with and prices (or wages, for that matter) set by a governmental body.

Unlike private business, where one person or a small group can make sensible, small adjustments over time, changes like this require accumulated economic and political pressure to build up over time, so change tends to happen in sporadic bursts.

I saw that pattern in a 23 year career as a public school teacher. Flat salaries for a decade, then sudden, rapid increases, then flat...

I'm not addressing whether the new parks pass price or the IL vehicle registration fees are reasonable and fair, merely pointing out that they do not follow normal market patterns.

[Rzrbrn]

Sure, sure, unlike government, private companies are reasonable when they raise prices....like perhaps Martin Shkreli, CEO of Turing Pharmaceuticals who bought the rights to a drug used in the treatment of HIV and increased the price by 5,000 per cent and who tried a similar move with a previous employer with kidney pills.

But regardless, even at $80 the senior pass is a bargain. We have saved much more that $80 by using it over the last 2 camping seasons.

[Al and Cindy K]

Floyd, the next time you're down our way for a camping trip in the Smokies, let me know. There are numerous USFS campgrounds and a couple of NC State Parks in the area that we think far exceed anything the National Park Service has to offer. I can even point you to some with electrical and water hookups if you'd like. Nothing against private campgrounds and I'm really glad a lot of folks prefer them as it leaves more sites for me in the public facilities.

I'm no math whiz but figure I'd likely make up that possibly missing $20 somewhere between Memorial Day and Christmas.

We'll be In Ocala NF the last week of January enjoying the half price camping at Juniper Springs. But, if you're heading down I-95 to Scamp Camp next month and need anything while passing through the Rocky Mount, NC area, give me a shout. That offer stands for all others as well.

Al

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Floyd, in my experience such is the way with and prices (or wages, for that matter) set by a governmental body.

Unlike private business, where one person or a small group can make sensible, small adjustments over time, changes like this require accumulated economic and political pressure to build up over time, so change tends to happen in sporadic bursts.

I saw that pattern in a 23 year career as a public school teacher. Flat salaries for a decade, then sudden, rapid increases, then flat...

I'm not addressing whether the new parks pass price or the IL vehicle registration fees are reasonable and fair, merely pointing out that they do not follow normal market patterns.

And with the park system, we cannot boycott or take our business elsewhere to apply pressure. An 800% increase in one step would never work in my business, or in a service that the majority of people needed.

If the parks are national treasures, kept safe for all of us to enjoy and cherish, why pick on one group to help cover expenses? Wouldn't it make more sense to raise the price for everything a few percentage points and still offer retired folks, with lower incomes, a benefit? Whenever a small group gets hit with something like this, instead of everyone, there is much less blowback.

Yes, $80. can still be a good deal. But the calculation must include how many times it will be used and wether the initial cost beats the lower cost of staying somewhere on that one trip. I'm very happy to have my senior pass and I guess I'll have to be extra careful not to lose it.

[Glenn Baglo]

Fact of the matter is that private companies are pulling back on perks for retired folk because the 'baby bulge' is moving through the system. There are too many of us, and most are actually better off than retirees of the past.

[Raz]

A while back (2009?) the Forest service sought public comment on a proposal that would have decreased the camping discount from 50% to 10%. This was apparently at the request of the concessionaires who run the camp grounds. The response killed the idea at the time but that kind of stuff is seldom forgotten. There is always a good argument to raise rates.

A Vermont resident at age 65 could purchase a lifetime hunting and fishing license for a one time fee of $50. As of Jan. 1 2017 you now have to wait until age 70. Reason given, to keep Vermont in line with New York and Massachusetts.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Al & Cindy K

Floyd, the next time you're down our way for a camping trip in the Smokies, let me know. There are numerous USFS campgrounds and a couple of NC State Parks in the area that we think far exceed anything the National Park Service has to offer. I can even point you to some with electrical and water hookups if you'd like. Nothing against private campgrounds and I'm really glad a lot of folks prefer them as it leaves more sites for me in the public facilities.

I'm no math whiz but figure I'd likely make up that possibly missing $20 somewhere between Memorial Day and Christmas.

We'll be In Ocala NF the last week of January enjoying the half price camping at Juniper Springs. But, if you're heading down I-95 to Scamp Camp next month and need anything while passing through the Rocky Mount, NC area, give me a shout. That offer stands for all others as well.

Al

Thank you for the kind invitation, we love North Carolina and eastern TN. and would love to explore some of the places that we often drive by without noticing .

Maggie Valley has a couple of very nice Campgrounds and we like River Plantation in Sevierville TN. for when you want to be near the tourist action.