Decided to order the Oliver

[Cathi]

The 21' Escape is one of the only molded fiberglass trailers of a similar size to the 23' Oliver and many make that comparison. Some have then bought Olivers but probably more have bought Escapes, or are about to, partly because so few Olivers are made.

The molded fiberglass world is largely about being able to tow with a smaller tow vehicle. Oliver has not completely left that world on that aspect because so many fiberglass owners do have more powerful vehicles, some for other reasons than towing. So they can easily go to an Oliver or other heavy trailer if they want.

A heavy 23' trailer, however, is out of the range of many who tow fiberglass for a whole host of reasons. Those who do not want gas-guzzlers or who do not have a pile of money sitting around to spend any amount on a trailer or who do not like certain features of an Oliver or Escape will get something else.

I am all for paying for high quality and I like the high quality of much that I see about the Oliver. The question becomes how many more thousands for the trailer and then the tug and then the never-ending gas, and is it all worth it. We have our considerations which are different from those of other people. We all have to find the right fit.

[Ron Merritt]

Actually, the Escape is not the only comparison. Look what I posted above. The Bigfoot is much more similar to size, specs and weight.

Also, don't think that because you have a small trailer and smaller tug you won't burn a lot of gas. If you are towing near it's max capacity, a smaller vehicle's economy will drop ALOT. I know plenty of people towing smaller trailers with Jeeps and such having their MPG falling to 12 and 13, where I can do much better than that with my Silverado and tow twice the weight. That's why I caution people about towing so close to the max rating of their vehicles.


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[Cathi]

Originally Posted by hellsbay

GVWR has to do with the strength of the frame and rating of the axel or axels. Because of these the Oliver has way more carying capacity than most RV trailers. simply put, it is overbuilt. If you choose to load it up with 2400 pounds of stuff then you will need a larger rated TV. Most of us have travel with 200-400 pounds of stuff.

I would have no problem towing the new Oliver 23 with my 6cyl Toyota Tacoma, which is rated to tow 6,500 pounds. Cathy, I don't think you understand the weights completely. I know that they are confusing and can be different for different manufacturers and countries.
Not sure if that applies here between Canada and US. The carrying capacity is the difference between the GVW and the GVWR.

I understand the weights only too well. I know exactly what those numbers are. Which is why it is obvious to me that I would not tow a 23' Oliver with a V6 4Runner with 5,000 lbs capacity even with a GCWR of 11,300 lbs. I will assume that you are not suggesting that.

I believe real world weights that most carry in a trailer of that size exceeds the 200-400 lbs you mention, and by far, if Escape owners are any indication. They routinely carry 800 lbs. or more. We, however, travel light compared to most. That does not mean that I would even think of towing the 23' Oliver without a more powerful (read gas-guzzling) TV. The best mpg I have seen for a suitable tow vehicle is 17/20 with, I can only guess, 14 or so perhaps for towing. That is not impossible. We get 17 towing now. It's all a consideration.

I would want to know much more about the Oliver as well as the TVs. No interest in pick-ups, by the way, only enclosed vehicles. We all have our likes.

[Cathi]

Originally Posted by Ron Merritt

Actually, the Escape is not the only comparison. Look what I posted above. The Bigfoot is much more similar to size, specs and weight.

Also, don't think that because you have a small trailer and smaller tug you won't burn a lot of gas. If you are towing near it's max capacity, a smaller vehicle's economy will drop ALOT. I know plenty of people towing smaller trailers with Jeeps and such having their MPG falling to 12 and 13, where I can do much better than that with my Silverado and tow twice the weight. That's why I caution people about towing so close to the max rating of their vehicles.


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We do not tow near maximum capacity and we get 17 mpg. That is better than most I have seen.

[Ron Merritt]

If you like the layout so much with the Escape, and you are getting that kind of fuel economy, then why all the questions about the Oliver? Doesn't sound like you are really in the market for a new trailer.

[Cathi]

Are you saying that the Escape is better? I take it you never looked at any trailer but Oliver and never considered anything else? I actually shop.

[Ron Merritt]

No. But I note that you've indicated your preference for the layout of the Escape. That you are getting great fuel economy with your current rig and have stated you don't want to get a bigger tow vehicle. Add to that a $20,000 price premium of a well equipped and obviously heavier Oliver over a new Escape 21, and I don't think you are really cross-shopping at all. If you told me you were looking at Airstreams, or even a Bigfoot, then I might think you are serious. FWIW, those are what I cross-shopped as comparables.

[Cathi]

Perhaps you know all about Bigfoots or Escapes or Airstreams without asking questions. How amazing.

I did not say that I would not get a bigger tow but merely stated what I had found in that respect. May not want to. No telling. Might depend on what features an Oliver has and whether we really want them. If you have a trailer you really want, you then find the tow vehicle. Perhaps you shop differently. I am looking at TV possibilities.

Not that it should be your concern, but I have already looked at Airstreams, Bigfoots and a whole host of others, maybe far more than you. As for your comment that you do not think I am really in the market for a new trailer, gee, I wonder why I am asking all of these questions and did not just know these things without asking. I guess we should all get off of the forum.

[Ron Merritt]

Have no idea what your motivations are. Reading must not be one of them.


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[Cathi]

If anyone knows where I would read about real-world experience in winter in an Oliver, please advise. I have looked and asked. That is a valid question for a trailer said to be four-season. I am sure there are folks out there who know.

[Cathi]

Originally Posted by Ice-breaker

I like the Oliver and think it is a nice trailer. The double hull of the Oliver is also a nice feature in terms of strength, but has some distinct pitfalls that would make your usage of the term "better" quite subjective. Many people do not want to have to haul around the large weight that is associated with the double hull Oliver. The look of the fiberglass interior of the Oliver appeals to some but not all. The strength of the single hull fiberglass rv's appears to be more than adequate for the majority of owner's having single hull trailers.

Thank you for the comments, Dave. This is the kind of thing I am wondering about also. I would not know about the construction advantages or disadvantages or their differences without talking to a few experts that I would have to find. I take it you know about the hull situation. The implication that single hulls do not hold up well or we should have double hulls if we want something durable, well, does not necessarily seem the case. Just another difference that may be worth it to some and not to others. The tanks and lines inside the hulls seems very good if they are indeed heated.

The interior look is another thing. I can't really tell without seeing one. They look nice in the photos. We are used to the wood look, very different.

[Rob Outlaw]

Since the discussion of towing weights & tow vehicles has come up regardless of whether its an Oliver, Scamp, Escape or what ever there appears to be some misunderstanding regarding what your TV can actually tow… legally. A few months ago I brought this up within the Oliver forum since up until recently no one was using a weight distribution hitch with their Legacy Elite II's.

Cutting to the chase without a weight distribution hitch your TV towing rate specs are cut in half ± a few pounds, period. I do not know what year this went into effect but for those with newer vehicles with towing package you should be able find the following stamp (image posted below) on your TV hitch that describes what you can tow with and without a WDH. You will have to crawl under your hitch to find this stamp, or alternatively it should be in your manual.

My '04 Tundra did not have this stamp, but my '13 Ford F150 Eco Boost does. When I first learned of these new specs I called the FoMoCo customer service to pick their brain and was informed that even with my Class IV hitch, and all of the excessive advertising regarding this trucks towing capacity those figures are cut by 50% if NOT using a WDH. The customer service person believed as I do that literally some 50% or way more of the people out there towing are way beyond their legal limit. She did not know what year this new spec went into effect.

Hopefully this info will help those considering purchasing a new TV or travel trailer.

Personally I have always been of the persuasion you could never have enough tow vehicle for what ever you are towing. The harsh reality is towing consumes copious amounts of gas and there is just no way of getting around this, especially out west where steep hill/mountain climbs and high elevation persist.

[Rob Outlaw]

Perhaps worth pointing out what comes standard on the Oliver is way out beyond what other companies provide. In fact there are only a few options, most of which do not add up to a lot of weight, well with the exception of the 4 battery pack, be it the AGM's or Trojan Wet Cells. So by the time you start adding all of the extras, add on's, and options with so many of the other TT's produced pretty soon you're knocking on the door of the Oliver's standard weight. However most companies do not produce weight as you go analysis as you add on these options.

If you doubt this this, saunter on over the Lance Travel Trailer website, and navigate to the build your own trailer or something along those lines. Once there you can start adding on options to your hearts content and unlike other companies this will also produce the GVW of the trailer with those options. The 1995 model comes within a couple hundred pounds of the Oliver, yet it still doesn't have many of the standards the Oliver has. In all fairness it also has many that the Oliver doesn't have, i.e. slide out, 1 foot wider dimension, full bath etc.

The point is, make sure you're comparing apples to apples when talking about weights, especially hidden weights.

Just some food for thought.

rob

[Ron Merritt]

Rob,

I'll be one of those not using WD or sway control with my new trailer. My truck's hitch tag says 1000 lbs w/o WD and 1500 lbs with. My max tow is around 18000 lbs. The truck itself weighs around 7600 lbs. It has a fairly long wheelbase being a crew cab.

One neat thing about the Oliver is the adjustable tongue. You can pretty well manipulate your tongue weight which may be needed for some folks. With my heavy truck, I doubt adjustments will be necessary.

There are so many variables involved in figuring out if you need sway control. Weight of the trailer compared to weight of the truck. Length of the trailer and length of the tow vehicle. Tongue weight proportion of total trailer weight.

When I towed a 34' box trailer, sway control bars were definitely needed. When I towed my Vantage 19UL (23' with rounded body) it was not needed at all. With a 25' show car hauler I have, even with a car in it, neither WD or sway control is needed - that one is 1000 lbs on the tongue and 10,000 lbs overall. But it has a very low center of gravity.

In my experience, if your loaded trailer is lighter than your truck, is not much longer than your truck, and tongue weight is less than 20% of the total weight, and you have less than 1" drop on the rear suspension (stiff), then towing with just the ball hitch is OK. These are my own rules, not something written in stone.

They certainly didn't apply when I towed with a Chevy Suburban. The trailer met most of these criteria, but the Suburban had such a soft suspension (basically a car suspension) that sway and WD was an absolute necessity even though this vehicle was quite heavy and had a long wheelbase.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Ron Merritt

They certainly didn't apply when I towed with a Chevy Suburban. The trailer met most of these criteria, but the Suburban had such a soft suspension (basically a car suspension) that sway and WD was an absolute necessity even though this vehicle was quite heavy and had a long wheelbase.

I drove one of those for a while. It was likely the worst truck I ever towed with. Like you I found the suspension very soft. I did not to a lot, but when I did I never felt it was all that stable.

[Ron Merritt]

The poor guys that bought them with the air suspension could never get a WD set up properly because the air suspension would constantly adjust. On mine, I ended up installing Timbrens, which helped a lot (I didn't have the air ride).

I also had the 5.3 motor, so besides the 9 to 10 mpg, I also got to enjoy very poor hill climbing.

Supposedly the tow rating was 7200 lbs, but that was a laugh. That is why I'm very skeptical when I see the ratings on SUV's. Maybe they won't fly apart up to those numbers, but they certainly won't be a comfortable tow.

[Jim Bennett]

I personally think that my Pilot has way stiffer suspension, than that Suburban had. If I feel I need more stiffness though, out comes my F-350, no issues there. lol

[Ron Merritt]

Eventually I'd like to downsize my truck. I've been looking into the RAM 1500 diesel and am interested in the new Colorado/Canyon diesel. These trucks may be a good match for the Oliver. The RAM is rated for nearly 10,000 lbs and gets 28 mpg highway. The GM's aren't out yet with the diesel versions, but should be rated just a bit less than the RAM.

[minke]

Originally Posted by Ron Merritt

Rob, ...

One neat thing about the Oliver is the adjustable tongue. You can pretty well manipulate your tongue weight which may be needed for some folks. With my heavy truck, I doubt adjustments will be necessary. ...

From the Oliver website I couldn't figure out what the adjustable tongue was. Your clue "... manipulate your tongue weight ..." makes me think that the length is adjustable. Is that the case?

On my '11 so-called ¾ ton F-250 the hitch says I need a WD hitch if the tongue weight ≥ 600 pounds and/or the trailer is ≥ 6,000 pounds. If you wish to discuss differences in tow vehicles the differences between ½ ton and ¾ ton pickup are often not understood. The major characteristic differentiating the two in my eyes is the amount of stuff the truck can carry in the cabin and on the bed. While both kinds of truck can tow >10K pounds the ½ ton pickup may have a non-towing payload of maybe 1,500 pounds while the ¾ ton pickup may be nearly twice that. I haven't checked the numbers in a long time but think I've got it right.

[Ron Merritt]

Yep. There are a few pictures around that show it. I don't think it's a quick adjustment - think it's something you bolt and unbolt.

I think with your truck, those limits are because of the springs Ford decides to use in it's trucks. They are generally softer sprung, and therefore ride better than the GM's. Often you see folks install air bags in them to eliminate the sag from a heavy load. That doesn't negate the need for WD, but does help with the dynamics.

You are right about the differences. Often, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks can have the same engine and transmissions. The difference in the rating is due to frame rails, springs and axles - all the load carrying bits. Engine power is not much of an issue with the modern trucks - they all have gobs of pulling power.