Do batteries outgas when used?

[Bluetang99]

Do batteries only outgas when being charged or also when being used? I have no battery mount outside for the time being and was wondering if it would be safe just to put it under a cabinet when we need it to run the 12v circuit?

[Carol H]

YES even the newer AGM batteries that many think do not. The manufactures of those state they need to be vented as well.

Any battery in the trailer needs to be put into a special box that vents to the outside.

[Bluetang99]

Originally Posted by Carol H

YES even the newer AGM batteries that many think do not. The manufactures of those state they need to be vented as well.

Any battery in the trailer needs to be put into a special box that vents to the outside.

Good to know, I thought they only gassed when charging. And in that case I won't have to shell out almost $200 for an agm battery that still leaks gas, I'll just get a cheap deep cycle battery.

[Casita Greg]

Originally Posted by Bluetang99

Good to know, I thought they only gassed when charging. And in that case I won't have to shell out almost $200 for an agm battery that still leaks gas, I'll just get a cheap deep cycle battery.

Most of the gassing occurs during charging, but all batteries need to "breathe" all the time. Just because a battery is advertised as "sealed", that is not entirely true. Additionally, all batteries are capable of generating heat, again, mainly during the charging cycle, but it is another good reason to have adequate ventilation in any battery box or compartment.

[Ed Harris]

Yes.
Your question seems a little ambiguous too though?
They mainly togas while being charged and so in the context of "being used" in an RV it is safe to say that if you have a battery in there and it is connected to a charger circuit and its routine is being charged and loaded pretty much all the time when connected to shore power yes it will outgas at times while in use.

Better safe than sorry if you are thinking you might use a battery but not charge it unless it or you are not in the trailer.
Just stick the battery outside or in a vented enclosure if inside unless you are sure somehow that it is not producing gas.

[Bluetang99]

Originally Posted by Ed Harris

Yes.
Your question seems a little ambiguous too though?
They mainly togas while being charged and so in the context of "being used" in an RV it is safe to say that if you have a battery in there and it is connected to a charger circuit and its routine is being charged and loaded pretty much all the time when connected to shore power yes it will outgas at times while in use.

Better safe than sorry if you are thinking you might use a battery but not charge it unless it or you are not in the trailer.
Just stick the battery outside or in a vented enclosure if inside unless you are sure somehow that it is not producing gas.

Sorry I wasn't clear, by using it I meant not connected to the charging circuit, just connected to the fuse box which runs my TV and 2 led lights.

Basically what I was going to do is if one day we plan on getting the camp site without power I would take my battery and hook it up to the 12v circuit of the PD4045 under the sink.

When we would get the camp site with power I just wouldn't take the battery with me.

[Paul O.]

Your approach requires good planning and then camping according to your plan. If you left the battery at home, you are limited to electric sites only. That would not work for me. We plan, but not to that level of detail, and dealing with surprises along our journeys is part of the fun! Also, I would probably drop and damage the battery while moving it around so much - hopefully not on my toes! I think the "standard" 12Volt setup is better.

[Casita Greg]

Originally Posted by Paul O.

Your approach requires good planning and then camping according to your plan. If you left the battery at home, you are limited to electric sites only. That would not work for me. We plan, but not to that level of detail, and dealing with surprises along our journeys is part of the fun! Also, I would probably drop and damage the battery while moving it around so much - hopefully not on my toes! I think the "standard" 12Volt setup is better.

Bluetang99,
Your avatar just says "Scamp", but not what size. Does your trailer have electric brakes? Just curious, because if it does, the trailer battery needs to be installed while towing in the event of a "breakaway" trailer condition occurs. Trailer brakes are required for trailers over a certain weight in most states. I'm not sure what size trailer you have, but it is just one more item to consider if it does have brakes.

You can also save yourself a lot of work in having to go through the hassle of removing and reinstalling the battery all the time by installing a battery cut-off switch. YMMV

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Bluetang99

Sorry I wasn't clear, by using it I meant not connected to the charging circuit, just connected to the fuse box which runs my TV and 2 led lights.

Basically what I was going to do is if one day we plan on getting the camp site without power I would take my battery and hook it up to the 12v circuit of the PD4045 under the sink.

When we would get the camp site with power I just wouldn't take the battery with me.

As Paul suggests I think you will find it far more convenient in the long run to just wire the the trailer up to the battery the conventional fashion so you always have the option of camping without power or with power without having to do anything.

Not clear by your profile what year Scamp you have but it should already be wired to allow for the battery on the tongue and lines to your convertor. ....... so your good to go with or without power, that is unless the PO decided to reinvent the wheel a mess with the wiring. ;-)

[MarkyVasquez]

Another reason for good ventilation is because during charging batteries produce hydrogen. Hydrogen is an explosive gas. Batteries should have enough ventilation to disperse this gas and all sources of ignition should be kept away.


Happy Camping!
Marky

[wbullivant]

I think the optimum plan is to build a sealed battery box with a removable lid. Then run a vent tube (1/2" or larger pvc) from the top of the box in an upward direction to the outside of the trailer shell. Next install a small computer fan (apx 3" brushless 12v DC) that will draw less than 5 watts near the bottom of the box. Leave about a 1/2" gap between the batteries. There will some ventilation without the fan running as hydrogen is much lighter than air. Turn on the fan during heavy charge or discharge to assist in battery cooling.

Bill in NC, building Promaster camper

[Franswa]

I've had batteries explode near me TWICE....both are long stories but both times the circumstances were the battery(ies) had been rapidly completely discharged....AND a spark was introduced. Contrary to popular belief (Hindenberg stories et al) nothing much happens other than a VERY LOUD bang....the battery casings split open...battery caps crack/fly and some acid escapes....

Hydrogen is fourteen times lighter than air...venting is simple...manufacturers take the easy way out by mounting a battery box outside but this increases tounge weight and can become impractical if/when more storage is desired

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Casita Greg

Bluetang99,
Your avatar just says "Scamp", but not what size. Does your trailer have electric brakes? Just curious, because if it does, the trailer battery needs to be installed while towing in the event of a "breakaway" trailer condition occurs. Trailer brakes are required for trailers over a certain weight in most states. I'm not sure what size trailer you have, but it is just one more item to consider if it does have brakes.
...

My Scamp did not come with a break-away and I am not aware of any Scamps that do. So the battery is not needed for the brakes in that case.

Originally Posted by MarkyVasquez

Another reason for good ventilation is because during charging batteries produce hydrogen. Hydrogen is an explosive gas. Batteries should have enough ventilation to disperse this gas and all sources of ignition should be kept away.

The OP posted that he is NOT going to be charging the battery in the camper.

He also said "for the time being" so this is not what he plans to do permanently, and perhaps not more than once.

Originally Posted by wbullivant

I think the optimum plan is to build a sealed battery box with a removable lid. Then run a vent tube (1/2" or larger pvc) from the top of the box in an upward direction to the outside of the trailer shell. Next install a small computer fan ...r

Again, the OP is not looking at the optimum permanent plan but just a simple way to watch TV with LED lights for the time being.

-----------------
I am not going to tell you that you can use your battery safely in the camper, because you can't do it easily. But if you were to do so, and you only used a few LED lights and a small TV, and you never charged it indoors, and if you kept the terminals protected to prevent shorts, and if you made sure it was not in an enclosed space (except the trailer it's self of course), and you kept sparks and other sources of ignition away (no cooking inside with the battery there also!) and you kept some windows and esp the top vent(s) open to move the air around, and you made sure there was no risk of electrolyte (acid) being spilled...

.. then the risk is pretty low. But the risk is real so for liability reasons I am telling you to not do it.

[RogerDat]

How about buy the battery box, they are plastic, strap closed, some have handles. You will use this when you do have a mount on the tongue, Said mount just being two pieces of angle iron that the plastic battery box gets strapped or bolted to.


When you want battery take box containing battery, during camp set up if you need battery put the box containing the battery on the ground by the tongue and hook it up. Don't need it then leave the battery box with battery packed away. Heck no reason you can't charge the thing if it is sitting in the box outside on the ground by the tongue.

http://www.amazon.com/NOCO-HM318BKS-.../dp/B004W5SGBO

You will have safer transport of the battery, covered when in use, safely vented during use. You will want one of those boxes eventually anyway as they protect the battery and make bringing into a garage or shed for off season storage much easier.

Don't kid yourself an exploding battery is no joke, I know of only one person that did it, they were jumping a car with battery that had just been run down trying to start. Exploding battery creates shrapnel covered with battery acid. Aside from extreme pain from the chunks of plastic that were blasted into his hand and arm covered with acid, even after pieces were removed the acid burned skin did not heal for months.

[Kai in Seattle]

Paul cleaned up the original battery area inside our 73 amerigo.
It had once been in a wooden box under a dinette seat. The wood was in very bad shape so he took it out. We could tell where the battery had been anyway, from the discoloration and residue in a horrible little rectanble on the fiberglass, with ragged holes all over the area..

He scrubbed and patched and now it's clean and primed and painted.

We didn't want to have that mess inside again, and having heard about the off-gassing, we decided to carry ours on the tongue in standard battery

Paul has chained them down now, so they don't run off and get into trouble.

[Bluetang99]

Originally Posted by Paul O.

Your approach requires good planning and then camping according to your plan. If you left the battery at home, you are limited to electric sites only. That would not work for me. We plan, but not to that level of detail, and dealing with surprises along our journeys is part of the fun! Also, I would probably drop and damage the battery while moving it around so much - hopefully not on my toes! I think the "standard" 12Volt setup is better.

We don't travel far, our campsites we stay at are all within an hour drive so it's not too bad. Just about all the campsites are electric to begin with so the only time we would "plan" to bring the battery is when we would like to reserve a spot down in this valley where they only allow tents and pop-up size campers.

[Bluetang99]

Originally Posted by Carol H

As Paul suggests I think you will find it far more convenient in the long run to just wire the the trailer up to the battery the conventional fashion so you always have the option of camping without power or with power without having to do anything.

Not clear by your profile what year Scamp you have but it should already be wired to allow for the battery on the tongue and lines to your convertor. ....... so your good to go with or without power, that is unless the PO decided to reinvent the wheel a mess with the wiring. ;-)

Nope, no wiring whatsoever in the trailer. I will probably be the first one in thirty years with power, and water lol. There is no place for a battery on the tongue so unless they sell bolt on brackets I probably will not have one welded on right now. Does anyone know where I can buy brackets that I can screw or bolt on to mount a battery box? Thanks

The Scamp is a '75.

[Gordon in Idaho]

I'd just like to add that battery out-gassing is a cause for caution. Years ago, I was putting jumper cables on the battery in the engine compartment of my VW bus, and it exploded, sending me into the car behind me. Luckily, the battery blew mostly upward, and not in my face. AGM batteries are safer, but avoid the sparks!

Gordon

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by Bluetang99

Nope, no wiring whatsoever in the trailer. I will probably be the first one in thirty years with power, and water lol. There is no place for a battery on the tongue so unless they sell bolt on brackets I probably will not have one welded on right now. Does anyone know where I can buy brackets that I can screw or bolt on to mount a battery box? Thanks

The Scamp is a '75.

You might want to put the year with the trailer model in you profile. I have a 77 Scamp 13 and no it does not have a set of angle iron bars for a battery mount, and did not have a place in the wiring harness to hook up a battery. Just the line for power from the TV which goes directly to the fridge and two lights on the upper cabinets.

Those three items are my entire original 12 volt system. Original wiring confirmed that this is what came with the camper. You had to be plugged into the TV to run the lights and could run the fridge on 12 volt while going down the road. Your car wouldn't start if you left fridge on 12 volt and trailer plugged into your TV.

According to my measurements any normal sized RV battery box on the tongue has to have the cross pieces of angle iron welded to the bottom of the "A" made by the frame. Not the top. Otherwise battery won't fit between the front wall of the scamp and the propane tank.

The propane tank can't move forward to create more clearance for battery from wall of scamp without being in the way of the side of tongue mounted jack, also original that has a handle which rotates on the horizontal.

Getting angle iron rails welded under tongue might run $50 at a utility trailer shop or welding shop. I would think any "bolt on" would cost almost as much and clamps that bolt tighten around tubular frame are a good way to dent and crush the frame. I would avoid them. I don't want to talk about how I know, but clamp on jack wheels are evil and I have one in a garage sale I'm selling cheap.

Whole reason I suggested wire from 12 volt line with spliced line running out to the tongue with battery box on the ground, or sitting on a board set across tongue is that the wire to the tonge and the box are both purchases/work in the eventual direction of having a battery on the tongue where it really belongs. I think it was just optional back when ours was built.

[Bluetang99]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

You might want to put the year with the trailer model in you profile. I have a 77 Scamp 13 and no it does not have a set of angle iron bars for a battery mount, and did not have a place in the wiring harness to hook up a battery. Just the line for power from the TV which goes directly to the fridge and two lights on the upper cabinets.

Those three items are my entire original 12 volt system. Original wiring confirmed that this is what came with the camper. You had to be plugged into the TV to run the lights and could run the fridge on 12 volt while going down the road. Your car wouldn't start if you left fridge on 12 volt and trailer plugged into your TV.

According to my measurements any normal sized RV battery box on the tongue has to have the cross pieces of angle iron welded to the bottom of the "A" made by the frame. Not the top. Otherwise battery won't fit between the front wall of the scamp and the propane tank.

The propane tank can't move forward to create more clearance for battery from wall of scamp without being in the way of the side of tongue mounted jack, also original that has a handle which rotates on the horizontal.

Getting angle iron rails welded under tongue might run $50 at a utility trailer shop or welding shop. I would think any "bolt on" would cost almost as much and clamps that bolt tighten around tubular frame are a good way to dent and crush the frame. I would avoid them. I don't want to talk about how I know, but clamp on jack wheels are evil and I have one in a garage sale I'm selling cheap.

Whole reason I suggested wire from 12 volt line with spliced line running out to the tongue with battery box on the ground, or sitting on a board set across tongue is that the wire to the tonge and the box are both purchases/work in the eventual direction of having a battery on the tongue where it really belongs. I think it was just optional back when ours was built.

For sure I will put the battery on the tongue in the future this was just meant as a temporary fix. I probably will do what you suggested and run the wires out to the front where there battery box would be.

I did call just about every shop around my area and nobody welds anything and there are no trailer shops around unfortunately. Eventually if I find someone that is a good welder and won't ruin my paint job then I will have them do it.

The PO was a construction company that had it parked in their shop for over ten years as a home for one of their workers. I guess since they never planned on towing it they just decided to rip anything useful out of the camper such as the electrical, water and angle iron for battery mount.