Do batteries outgas when used?

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by Bluetang99

For sure I will put the battery on the tongue in the future this was just meant as a temporary fix. I probably will do what you suggested and run the wires out to the front where there battery box would be.

I did call just about every shop around my area and nobody welds anything and there are no trailer shops around unfortunately. Eventually if I find someone that is a good welder and won't ruin my paint job then I will have them do it.

The PO was a construction company that had it parked in their shop for over ten years as a home for one of their workers. I guess since they never planned on towing it they just decided to rip anything useful out of the camper such as the electrical, water and angle iron for battery mount.

Back as old as our trailers are the whole battery on the tongue was an option, these days it is pretty much standard to have a battery just for the trailer. As in "oh look dear we have lights in the camper when we pull off in a rest area" Running a whole lot of 12 volt stuff would have been sort of high end for the Scamp market. I'm sure they offered it, just not standard.

Yep your paint job on the frame there will take a hit from the weld heat but that should be easy to touch up, will only be right around the welds.

I sort of figured this was something of a temp solution, that is one of the reasons I was thinking in terms of box or wiring you can use now and then use later for the permanent solution.

[Byron Kinnaman]

A slight change in the topic.
For those that think they don't need a breakaway switch I suggest you do some research. You can start here.

[vintageracer]

As someone above mentioned trailer "Break Away" systems and since they also require a battery I thought I would add this to the discussion.

Most all trailer "Break Away" systems are self powered with their own battery/box. Most states now require a trailer WITH brakes to have a "Break Away" system installed either electric or hydraulic depending upon the type of brake system on your trailer. Check with your states DMV for the laws that will apply to you in your state of registration concerning trailer "Break Away" system requirements.

Since most older Scamps (maybe new ones also) did not have factory installed brakes they did not have factory installed "Break Away" systems. I have seen some folks power their "Break Away" systems by a battery that was installed in the trailer for other purposes. I would avoid that situation.

IF your states trailer registration laws require you to install a trailer "Break Away" system installed on your trailer just a buy a self contained kit/system, install it, be safe and be legal.

The Hopkins system below is good along with others that are cheaper. Basic difference is generally the quality of the battery provided with the system.

Hopkins Towing Solutions Engager Breakaway Kit with LED Test Light | Trailer Brake Controllers| Northern Tool + Equipment

[Bluetang99]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

As someone above mentioned trailer "Break Away" systems and since they also require a battery I thought I would add this to the discussion.

Most all trailer "Break Away" systems are self powered with their own battery/box. Most states now require a trailer WITH brakes to have a "Break Away" system installed either electric or hydraulic depending upon the type of brake system on your trailer. Check with your states DMV for the laws that will apply to you in your state of registration concerning trailer "Break Away" system requirements.

Since most older Scamps (maybe new ones also) did not have factory installed brakes they did not have factory installed "Break Away" systems. I have seen some folks power their "Break Away" systems by a battery that was installed in the trailer for other purposes. I would avoid that situation.

IF your states trailer registration laws require you to install a trailer "Break Away" system installed on your trailer just a buy a self contained kit/system, install it, be safe and be legal.

The Hopkins system below is good along with others that are cheaper. Basic difference is generally the quality of the battery provided with the system.

Hopkins Towing Solutions Engager Breakaway Kit with LED Test Light | Trailer Brake Controllers| Northern Tool + Equipment

That's interesting, I've never heard of a breakaway switch, looks like it would save a possible dent in your car or a totalled trailer.

In Ohio you only need brakes for trailers over 3000# but eventually if funds allow when I get my axle replaced this would be a good thing to get.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

As someone above mentioned trailer "Break Away" systems and since they also require a battery I thought I would add this to the discussion.

Most all trailer "Break Away" systems are self powered with their own battery/box. Most states now require a trailer WITH brakes to have a "Break Away" system installed either electric or hydraulic depending upon the type of brake system on your trailer. Check with your states DMV for the laws that will apply to you in your state of registration concerning trailer "Break Away" system requirements.

Since most older Scamps (maybe new ones also) did not have factory installed brakes they did not have factory installed "Break Away" systems. I have seen some folks power their "Break Away" systems by a battery that was installed in the trailer for other purposes. I would avoid that situation.

IF your states trailer registration laws require you to install a trailer "Break Away" system installed on your trailer just a buy a self contained kit/system, install it, be safe and be legal.

The Hopkins system below is good along with others that are cheaper. Basic difference is generally the quality of the battery provided with the system.

Hopkins Towing Solutions Engager Breakaway Kit with LED Test Light | Trailer Brake Controllers| Northern Tool + Equipment

The house battery works better than an additional battery just for the breakaway system. Therefore you don't need the additional battery. A breakaway switch is easy to install, but if don't feel comfortable installing one your local RV store can handle it.
The law as I remember it (federal) if brakes are required so is a breakaway system (switch for electric breaks).

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

The house battery works better than an additional battery just for the breakaway system.

Assuming you have a "House" battery in/on your trailer.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

Assuming you have a "House" battery in/on your trailer.

True. If not the federal law requires a big enough battery to hold the brakes for 15 minutes, as I read it.

That said most trailers have house battery or two.

[RogerDat]

I think the key point is if trailer is required to have brakes. I'm sure in some state or states for at least some FGRV's brakes would be required by the state department of motor vehicles. However I doubt it applies to most FGRV owners. Either they have a low enough trailer weight that no state requires brakes (*cough* 13 ft. * cough*) or don't live in a state that mandates brakes for the weight of trailer they own.


The breakaway switch is common on heavy equipment trailers because the trailers can be loaded with a pair of bull dozers so they are set up for their potential max weight capacity. Have seen some pretty large campers licensed here in Mich. that don't have them. Well over the weight of most FG campers.

[Patricia D.]

I am not sure about the etiquette but I just have a question about the original issue of housing batteries in the trailer. I am taking my trailer (1975 Ventura) down to the framing and rebuilding it. I am removing the fridge and was thinking of using the bottom of that cavity to house the batteries with a shelf above. There is a large vent on the exterior that I was going to change to a hatch (or modify the metal vent) so that I could access the space from outside to attach stand alone solar panels as needed. If I sealed the box on the inside would this be a reasonable approach?

[Carol H]

[QUOTE=Patricia D.;592213 If I sealed the box on the inside would this be a reasonable approach?[/QUOTE]

As long as you vent it to the outside.

[Franswa]

hydrogen is FOURTEEN times lighter than air so getting rid of it is pretty simple / easy....as long as the vent (exhaust) is higher than any other space of the "container" the gas will be gone in short order....

whichever way you decide to go...keep in mind that for a problem (explosion) to occur there has to have been a spark produced by something... like a loose wire near the battery...guarding against that is as important (or more IMO) as venting...

good luck and don't forget to post pics...."no pics, didn't happen"...LOL

[Michael Pupeza]

No!
The information that I read from the major manufacturers say that they can be placed in any direction, even upside down, and require no venting.
I just replaced 2 size 27 True AGM batteries that spent their 1st 8 years as backups for a telephone PBX system then I used them for 6 years in my Bigfoot 17. They both failed within the same year - good quality control. When removed from service they were completely sealed and dry. That being said, I use a Progressive Dynamics Intellipower(?) PD-9060 Converter and monitor their performance constantly with a Xantrex Link 20 dual battery monitor system.
Now, is it a good idea to vent them?
Probably, since many systems can fail and either overcharge them or over discharge them, or they fracture from travel, or other reasons. Certainly I would suggest a plastic battery box and constant visual inspections.
This is my information for my purposes only, you can do what you want, but I keep one on the tongue and the other on a non-vented battery box, well strapped down, inside under my passenger front seat.
Ka-Boom - I hope not.
Mike .....>

[Patricia D.]

I usually go the cautious route so will make sure that the batteries are located where I can monitor them and where they can be vented.
I am still in the planning/design stage and reading ahead on the forums is really helping me see possible pitfalls but, best of all, possible solutions.
For sure I will have pictures but they will be a while, I am going to enjoy the process and not rush.

[Santiago]

Originally Posted by Carol H

YES even the newer AGM batteries that many think do not. The manufactures of those state they need to be vented as well.

Any battery in the trailer needs to be put into a special box that vents to the outside.

I talked to the LifeLine tech department recently out gassing of AGMs when housed inside the trailer. Not an issue, its standard practice he said. I asked about their published statement that says can not be in an enclosed area. He recognized that is confusing. What they meant was it can not be sealed in a container. In the trailer cabin, with potential gassing being so slight it would dissipate without a problem, that's IF it ever happened.

I will be installing three banks of AGM in my ordered Escape and currently have a Gel battery inside the 05 Scamp 13 I just put up for sale. No maintenance ever, terminals are clean and look like when it came out of the box. Speaking of which, they can be shipped UPS because they are safe. Cost is higher but you will get it back as they last a lot longer, in the end they are cheaper.

[Jon Vermilye]

For anyone considering even AGM batteries unvented in your trailer you might read this thread.. True, it shouldn't happen, but...

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye

For anyone considering even AGM batteries unvented in your trailer you might read this thread.. True, it shouldn't happen, but...

Good, I was about to post the same link. A very long thread but basically the AGM batteries installed by Parkliner vented acid. Parkliner has since moved the batteries onto the tongue.

Years ago I noticed a spark anytime I connected the wires to my battery. Like almost everything electronic these days many of the devices in our trailers are never really off. I traced the spark I was seeing to the hardwired propane detector. To minimize any explosion risk I went to an AGM battery and added an inline fuse away from the battery that I use as a disconnect. Also, I use a two state charger to charge my battery when home instead of the four state charger that came with the trailer. It's slower but at home I'm in no hurry. Raz

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Raz

...To minimize any explosion risk I went to an AGM battery and added an inline fuse away from the battery that I use as a disconnect...

IMHO, having a master battery disconnect switch (or breaker) is:

1. A major safety feature. In case of any problems like a short that cannot immediately be isolated, suspicious electric arcing smells, or even an actually fire, the battery can be shutoff almost instantly.
and
2. A major convenience. When the master switch is off you know you can disconnect from the battery terminals with no chance of sparking. You can also disconnect those phantom loads like a hardwired propane detector and stop your battery from discharging.

Pulling a fuse works too, just not quite was well. But kudos to anyone who has made a battery disconnect improvement.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Pulling a fuse works too, just not quite was well. But kudos to anyone who has made a battery disconnect improvement.

I was going to add a switch but after reading review after review of failed switches on Amazon I decided to go with the inline fuse. Besides I like having the fuse close enough to the battery to protect against the lead in wires shorting.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Michael Pupeza

No!
The information that I read from the major manufacturers say that they can be placed in any direction, even upside down, and require no venting.
.>

Hummm...... the fine print from all the AGM battery manufactures I have read say they recommend they be vented. We even had one of the manufactures reps come on here when this topic came up previously stating they recommend they be vented.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Raz

I was going to add a switch but after reading review after review of failed switches on Amazon I decided to go with the inline fuse. Besides I like having the fuse close enough to the battery to protect against the lead in wires shorting.

You know this better than I do, but for the rest of the audience..

The "master battery fuse" should be included in all cases, and as close to the battery terminal as possible.

Scamp installed my master battery fuse a full 10 inches from the battery terminal.. thats ten inches of wire that could short out and burn or spark.

I prefer (and use) the Blue Sea Systems terminal fuse because it adds the maximum protection against causing a short at the terminals (such as might occur if someone were careless with tools), as well as protection further down the line. The down side is that you need a wrench to remove the fuse, and it is more expensive.