foil faced bubble wrap insulation lies - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 08-14-2015, 08:31 AM   #15
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Sprayed polyurethane would be the most commonly available product with highest R-value, but the application is very messy. It also "grows" irregularly when curing and would need some contouring afterward with a Surform. A side benefit of using sprayed urethane directly to fiberglass on fiberglass eggshell type structures is a stiffening of the shell. Urethane is very tough.
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:56 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by LindaandPat View Post
That's alright . I really don't think yet there is anything else without cost , taking up needed space etc. out there for this situation . Oliver using double hull with that air space is great . But then you have the cost most of us can't do at this stage of our lives .Pat
I've had carpet, double hull construction,latex coated foam rubber, fiberglass insulation,and ratfur over reflextix in travel trailers.

Hands down, the ratfur over reflextix is superior in real world comfort.

We spend a lot of time slicing and dicing ratings and decimal points on everything from tires to tongue weight, while paying little attention to what actually works best for the application.
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Old 08-14-2015, 10:24 AM   #17
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What percentage is actually exposed exterior walls and ceiling in the average Fiberglass trailer?
Much of the interior is fitted with cabinetry and benches which definitely affect the thermals.
Floors and windows are huge factors as well, the floors on most fiberglass campers are not insulated at all.
That may also be an argument for ordering carpet instead of vinyl for flooring or adding hard foam and Ozite to the floors inside the benches.

I have slept in project trailers with the lining removed and the experience is miserable... Hot in the sun cold at night and the walls glow all night if there is a street light or even a full moon! Then there is the noise... You could almost hear an ant sigh at a hundred paces.

Every approach to wall covering works pretty well though, since by far most camping is done in temperate weather and the trailer is equipped with wheels which help to assure that it is.
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Old 08-14-2015, 11:12 AM   #18
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My trailer of choice uses Ensolite. What reading I have done says it is mediocre insulation, at best. But it does not pass light, and it keeps the condensation down. Good enough for me.

I think Reflextix serves the same function, with less weight. Even better.
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Old 08-14-2015, 12:23 PM   #19
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From my original post --

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Linck View Post
I am glad my trailer has it, but its far from as good as they claim. Its insulation value is nowhere near R15, more like R 3. That's enough to help with cold weather condensation prevention though plain unfaced bubble wrap would do as well.
Furthermore, there are many advantages in Scamp's use of Reflextix, or similar brands. The folks at Scamp line the whole interior shell, save the floor, before any furniture, built-ins, etc are added. This provides a continuous insulating layer with no thermal bridges save for a couple of dozen rivets. While only achieving something like R3 the lack of thermal bridging (think studs in a wall) adds to the real benefit. I am pleased its there and was a factor in my choosing Scamp. Now if only some window supplier made double paned windows with frames of less conductive fiberglass, like used high end houses, condensation issues in cool weather would be nearly eliminated. Scamp does claim R15 on their website. That's wrong. Still they make GREAT trailers even if their copywriters are prone to exaggeration.

Physics - Shiny metallic surfaces not only reflect heat, they also are very stingy in emitting heat. An insulating air space of about 3/4 inch adjacent to both sides of foil is ideal; twice as good as one side. No air space exists in Scamps on either side so the effective R value is somewhere between 1 and 2. With an airspace on both sides the R value will increase to something like 4 or 5. I estimate the typical Scamp wall assembly (fiberglass, bubblewrap, ratfut) achieves a R value of 3.

One fellow above noticed increased comfort by leaving the Reflextix exposed on the inside of his RV. This is a clear demonstration of the insulating value of an exposed shiny surface. In this case it reflects body heat, etc. right back at you and you are warmer. You can try this when camping by holding a piece of foil between you and your campfire. It easily blocks nearly all sensible heat from the fire. However this blocks only radiant heat, only one component of heat loss, but it is easy to feel the difference. Most folks chose a more decorative, if less insulating, surface treatment. I like Rat Fur myself.

There are other advantages to Scamp's choice of wall assembly. Resisting heat flow is one. It also resists sound penetration. I appreciate this when adjacent campers party later than me. And the rat fur makes a great surface to velcro things to.

Airstream campers benefit from their shiny foil skins. Have to query the Google to know for sure but white fiberglass is probably as good from a heat perspective and much better protecting from casual hurled objects or worse.

Cheers all, john
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Old 08-14-2015, 12:38 PM   #20
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Thermodynamics is an interesting study. I happen to believe in the science of air currents and breaking them up to improve insulation factors. I relate an experience I had a number of years ago that was very convincing. Some of you might remember blue foam pads for backpacking. I used that same material for insulation between a vibration table and environmental chamber. One side was exposed to the temperatures inside the chamber and the other to the air outside. At 150F inside I could not feel any temperature rise on the outside. At -40 I could not feel any cooling on the outside. This material was 3/8" thick, closed cell foam. No air space for air currents.
I too am a bit skeptical of the R15 rating, but it's probably not that far off. With two layers you're not going to get air currents that transfer heat between layers and between the inside of the trailer to outside or outside to inside.
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Old 08-14-2015, 01:46 PM   #21
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I have had 2 trailers with the Reflectix/Ratfur insulation - a Scamp and a Casita. I lived in Alaska at the time and frequently camped in sub-freezing temps. It wasn't hard to stay warm in such a small space, but the furnace cycled constantly. When boondocking, my battery would only last one night or less. Later, I moved to hot and humid Arkansas with the Casita. The AC compressor cycled constantly trying to keep the trailer cool. I did cover the windows with Reflectix from Lowe's and it was a big help to reflect solar heating. But clearly, the insulation was not effective for hot or cold weather.


Now that I am back in a cold climate, I just need a better insulated trailer. My Bigfoot has foam insulation (including the floor) and double pane windows and I can use it through the November hunting seasons. I understand that the majority of members on this forum don't camp frequently in extreme conditions, so it is a non-issue for most of you.


The most interesting tidbit in the article was that the bubble-wrap insulation wasn't any cheaper than a superior foam insulation. Just for the sake of saving energy for heating and cooling, I would like to see all FGRV factories use a higher quality insulation. I don't know why they couldn't glue some closed-cell foam to the walls instead of the bubble wrap. Scamp and Casita famously keep doing everything the same way for decades. I believe Oliver and Escape are the only other manufacturers that offer a higher quality insulation.
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Old 08-14-2015, 01:58 PM   #22
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Clearification Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by David and Nancy View Post
I have had 2 trailers with the Reflectix/Ratfur insulation - a Scamp and a Casita. I lived in Alaska at the time and frequently camped in sub-freezing temps. It wasn't hard to stay warm in such a small space, but the furnace cycled constantly. When boondocking, my battery would only last one night or less. Later, I moved to hot and humid Arkansas with the Casita. The AC compressor cycled constantly trying to keep the trailer cool. I did cover the windows with Reflectix from Lowe's and it was a big help to reflect solar heating. But clearly, the insulation was not effective for hot or cold weather.


Now that I am back in a cold climate, I just need a better insulated trailer. My Bigfoot has foam insulation (including the floor) and double pane windows and I can use it through the November hunting seasons. I understand that the majority of members on this forum don't camp frequently in extreme conditions, so it is a non-issue for most of you.


The most interesting tidbit in the article was that the bubble-wrap insulation wasn't any cheaper than a superior foam insulation. Just for the sake of saving energy for heating and cooling, I would like to see all FGRV factories use a higher quality insulation. I don't know why they couldn't glue some closed-cell foam to the walls instead of the bubble wrap. Scamp and Casita famously keep doing everything the same way for decades. I believe Oliver and Escape are the only other manufacturers that offer a higher quality insulation.
I have heard that Casita's only insulation is the foam backing the floor carpeting they put on the walls. This is first I've heard of them using a Reflex type insulation.
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Old 08-14-2015, 03:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post
I have heard that Casita's only insulation is the foam backing the floor carpeting they put on the walls. This is first I've heard of them using a Reflex type insulation.
And likely the last.
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Old 08-14-2015, 03:52 PM   #24
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FYI. R values per inch.
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Old 09-21-2015, 05:58 PM   #25
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Smile Our experience

We have elephant hide with a closed foam backing on our walls. Our electric heater keeps it toasty inside. We have had below freezing temps at night in Yuma where the fountain next to our trailer froze.
The only problem is the condensation. A person breathes out a remarkable amount of moisture. We counter that by having plastic or other non-permeable sheeting over our cushions as a vapor barrier or the water will condense inside the cushions and cause mold. We leave a window cracked and the roof vent open partially depending on the cold. This helps but does not eliminate the moisture. A dry climate, read Arizona, helps a lot, too. We use a yoga mat and a shooting mat on the walls next to the sleepers. That, and sleeping bags keep us comfortable.
Then there is the sopping up in the morning.
From:

ColoradoENERGY.org - R-Value Table


Material - - - R - - Thickness
Fiberglass Batt 11.00 3 5/8"
Fiberglass Batt 13.00 3 1/2"
-(high density) 15.00 6 1/2"
Fiberglass Batt 19.00 5 1/4"
-(high density) 21.00 8"
Fiberglass Batt 25.00 8"
-(high density) 30.00 9 1/2"
Fiberglass Batt 30.00 12"
-(high density) 38.00 12"



Notice that you need a 6 1/2" thick for R15
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