for a good chuckle today.....

[ZachO]

Dave, that definitely started it for me! Good to see you over here.

And while I loved the thing, the quality of the work was not good. The difference was...this is going to surprise you...the molded fiberglass shell.

Whatever quality control issues it had, it was still on the road and causing happiness, almost 40 years later. Show me all the stick-built trailers getting gutted and rebuilt at 30 years old (yes I'm certain people can find examples, but anywhere near the level of fiberglass?). Things happen, including water damage from leaks, but the molded fiberglass body lives on.

IF people find value in that, the extra cost is worth it. As Steve points out, if you're just looking for a trailer, and don't plan to keep it a long time or don't care if it will still be on the road in ten years, fiberglass trailers don't have much going for them. More expensive, less space, less amenities.

[skalywag]

No wonder they leak! Glad I found an Oliver.
I want to go camping - not work on a trailer.
Cheers,

[ZachO]

Originally Posted by Franswa

something obviously happens whey you cross the equator....

sure is different...now I might be tempted to buy one of these...but the shipping would kill me !!!

Wow. Notice the relaxed, reasonable pace...

[LindaandPat]

[QUOTE=DavidG;675902]

Originally Posted by ZachO

I'm completely sold on the fiberglass quality and it would be hard for me to buy anything else.

The difference is the fiberglass shell. You just can't compare fiberglass or metal panels to a molded fiberglass body. It just lasts longer with fewer problems.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Zach, maybe you and I are fiberglas lovers because we both had Toyota Chinooks. ( and are on Chinook Yahoo site ). But I believe these two facts stand out : (1) All investment sites call a travel trailer (in general) a poor investment. Buy high, sell low ! Most do way more sitting than traveling, because of the high expense. Even if it only sits unused for 10 years, the value drops a LOT ! After 3 - 5 years most people use their trailer less and less.
(2) But lots of us have a 20+ year old Scamp or other fb trailer and it is worth MORE than new ! My '92 13' Scamp, which I paid $4000 for 8 years ago still looks pretty new and is worth at least $6,000 now. NO 'stick built can say that ! ! For me, end of discussion ! DavidG, from Fresno and Sonora

We have had many RV's through the years , but the last two were bought used and we were second owners . One a 21 ft motorhome bought for 7200. Sold 12 years later for 8900. It was a 1979 . Next a 9 1/2 camper bought used for 3500, sold for 5700. It was a 1992 . 21 years old . We take care of what we own and do maintence . That's it . On the motorhome if you could get 5000. That was good and was told I wouldn't get more then that . We got 7200 . I guess you would say both were stickies . But I could add all the prices I have paid for all our RV's , a few were new and not have paid what we paid for our new fiberglass trailer . So I guess we expect to not have some of the problems we have had and are disappointed with our purchase . I think the fellow is onto something about either changing out your RV like our vehicles or purchase something used and enjoy and move on to something later . At this point we just will keep this latest until we are done with camping ,we already are locked in . Interesting reading all the posts but we all have different experiences to share . Pat

[Bill rv tech]

Non fiberglass trailers serve an lesser known purpose, but so very important. As a retired RVIA tech, I worked on many TTs whose owners had to find affordable housing--these were not the traditional RVers traveling around the country. They were for all intents, permanent set ups, and for these folks, the TT worked OK. They still needed help understanding some of the nuances of living in a RV--like don't leave the black water open all the time!! etc.
I could occasionally adjust my charges, because it was my business. Still, one thing came through over and over, and as was clear in the video--the rigs are made to sell and not repair- had to be very creative on some repair calls- some issues due to owner error, others to manufacturers, and sadly, a lot due to fly by night rv "repair" folks.
I am enjoying my FG for another reason, and did enjoy my Scotty Highlander and Airstream--all three different animals, and for different purposes.
Keep up the excellent commentaries, as these do help folks new to the world of RV.
Thank you all!!
Bill

[ZachO]

I agree, everyone approaches it differently. I expect all of my purchase to last, and I'm a big proponent of maintenance. My truck is 20 years old. I buy quality stuff, I take care of it, and I expect it to last.

My dad only leased vehicles for years. Probably over a decade; he didn't keep anything longer than two years. I get it. Not how I do things, though.

[LindaandPat]

[QUOTE=LindaandPat;675911]

Originally Posted by DavidG

We have had many RV's through the years , but the last two were bought used and we were second owners . One a 21 ft motorhome bought for 7200. Sold 12 years later for 8900. It was a 1979 . Next a 9 1/2 camper bought used for 3500, sold for 5700. It was a 1992 . 21 years old . We take care of what we own and do maintence . That's it . On the motorhome if you could get 5000. That was good and was told I wouldn't get more then that . We got 7200 . I guess you would say both were stickies . But I could add all the prices I have paid for all our RV's , a few were new and not have paid what we paid for our new fiberglass trailer . So I guess we expect to not have some of the problems we have had and are disappointed with our purchase . I think the fellow is onto something about either changing out your RV like our vehicles or purchase something used and enjoy and move on to something later . At this point we just will keep this latest until we are done with camping ,we already are locked in . Interesting reading all the posts but we all have different experiences to share . Pat

Just added up the five RV's we have owned in 30 plus years for fun . Two were purchased new a 8 ft camper in 1972 and a new tent trailer in 1984 total of all five is 13,100. Last used RV sold in 2013 .total 19,300 recouped for all five . New trailer just shy of 30,000. Pat

[LindaandPat]

Originally Posted by ZachO

I agree, everyone approaches it differently. I expect all of my purchase to last, and I'm a big proponent of maintenance. My truck is 20 years old. I buy quality stuff, I take care of it, and I expect it to last.

My dad only leased vehicles for years. Probably over a decade; he didn't keep anything longer than two years. I get it. Not how I do things, though.

Yup our truck is a 1992 and hope to never replace her . Pat

[Kai in Seattle]

Thanks for the video; we watched it with great interest.

I had some thoughts: first, all that lumber makes the thing heavy. Far heavier than, say, our 16' amerigo at 1997 registered pounds. (Dry weight) Means you have to have some heavier-duty tow set-up. Means gas mileage goes down. Okay. The JayFeather was something like 4600 pounds; our tow capacity is only 3600 and the salesman suggested a weight distribution hitch. I refused even to consider it.

Then, they are rolling out 32 a DAY. That's about 8500 units a year from THAT plant alone, and it was plant #fifty-something. FIFTY plants? So that's 8500 x 50? 425,000 trailers a YEAR? That cannot be right. It simply can't. Do I think "they" are also creating 8500-425,000 camp sites a year? I don't know.
I really don't.

It gives me a shudder to think one day camping sites may be available only by lottery, and have to be planned two or more years in advance IF you are lucky enough to get one at all.

I've read that travel trailer sales are at an all-time high--for many people, it is a symbol of the good life, the good family life, the good retirement. A trailer in the driveway is as necessary to the deemed good and successful life as a three+ bedroom house, two full bathrooms, a two car garage and a fireplace chimney visible from the road.

I can only hope "they" leave "their" trailers where they belong, in their driveways, and leave us a campsite here and there! And I mean mostly in state parks, where there is electricity, a water spigot at each site, a clean handicapped-accessible public shower, and some TREES between sites.

Oh, and online reservations.

So far, Oregon and Washington have all those things available, but we usually (not always) make our reservations 9 months in advance...and cross our fingers and hope for decent weather.

Meanwhile, Paul keeps Peanut in OUR driveway and when it's not too cold, he uses it for his own personal, private reading and coffee lounge. It also keeps him in touch with neighbors, many of whom stop by if the door is propped open.

I can comfortably say that we understand the interior construction of Peanut completely and much of the exterior...and I know exactly how well to evaluate the quality of the work and finish. Our having done it all ourselves. (We know where the bodies are buried.)

BEST
Kai

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I don't find any of this too alarming. Six hours... remember that is just final assembly. Most of the components were pre-assembled. I believe I read that Scamp produces around 450 trailers a year. That means one is also coming off the line every six hours or so (based on a factory schedule of 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, which is just a guess).

Most of the complaints of the Jayco owner in the second video seemed cosmetic, fairly minor, and did not affect operation of the trailer. Hard to say if that is why he was finding warranty service difficult to obtain- perhaps if it was a defective plumbing connection that had water running all over the floor, he might have gotten prompt attention. Don't know, but I do know from a number of posts here that Scamp honors their warranty, in one case offering to pay for a repair to an appliance that should have been covered by the appliance manufacturer. I'd say the warranty advantage goes to the factory direct model- I can have work done at the independent repair shop of my choosing.

I compare Scamp and Jayco because they are both budget-priced units in their respective market segments. I agree with your assessment, Robert, that expectations may sometimes be unrealistic for the price paid. For the money, the Jayco buyer gets a lot of space and a full-featured home on wheels. For similar money, a Scamp buyer gets a whole lot less space, fewer features, similar fit and finish, but that wonderful molded shell and cabinets.

For the record, all of the factory defects I have observed in my Scamp are minor and cosmetic. None affected operation of the trailer. My biggest complaint is the quality of the 12V wiring- seems made to last 5 years. At 9 years old, my Scamp remains leak-free (yes, it does rain and snow in my corner of Arizona- it's snowing right now).

The six hours is irrelevant. If I recall the plant where my Tempo was built, it was one per minute at the end of the assembly line.
The line was long and several, so it could have been many hours or even days from start to finish. And that's just component assembly.
It took the best part of a minute for the robot to install the windshield.

Just how long would it take an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters to type the complete works of Shakespeare in perfect order. Odds are (but not positively)that it would be less time than one immortal monkey working full time by himself.

[Tom 72]

A week ago, I read that the RVIA says 505,000 units will be manufactured this year, or double a decade ago. First, baby boomers are retiring, and second, the industry may have been in a recession a decade ago.

I doubt anyone thinks they are making 505,000 new campsites, unless you count WalMart parking lots.

PS, the small manufacturers of molded fiberglass trailers are likely not RVIA members. Someone said Casita makes 4/day, or around 1,000 in a 250 day work year. Jon says Scamp may produce about 450/yr. I don't know about others.

Parkliner is going the dealer route, distributed with T@Bs & T@Gs, I guess. I called the Denver Dealer listed. He doesn't carry Parkliners.

[ZachO]

Having returned to the same spots/areas over and over in my life (a shorter time span than most here, maybe, but still meaningful), I've seen the RV "lifestyle" explode. So yeah, Kai, the worlds going to...heck.

I drive down a road in southern Utah, remembering the days when I was in college and there was hardly anyone there, and they were all either in tents or sleeping in the back of their trucks.

Now it's rare to see a tent. There are people in every conceivable pull-out off the road, all in campers. Maybe one tent for every twenty camper trailers or motorhomes. The outdoors are officially discovered, but rather than going into them and being changed by them, we're just bringing all the comforts of home out into them, changing them. I'm still reconciling where I stand in all that, since I'm one of the trailers out there.

[steve dunham]

Across from us is a 100 acre parcel of woods with a ten acre pond
We noticed one day that someone was driving through the field and into the Pines but thought nothing of it . About a month later the owner of the land (Pat) stopped by and asked if we knew why someone was driving across his field and we said no so he decided to call the sheriff and report it . The sheriff eventually caught the intruders camping on Pat's property. The trespassers reasoning was they bought a trailer and needed a place to camp, campgrounds were too crowded and too expensive and they weren't hurting anything.
We just bought 20 + acres and as soon as spring comes a gate is going up.
This problem is only going to get worse because half of the people won't take the time to see if they are on public or private land and the other half doesn't care.

[Cliff Hotchkiss]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Fiberglass trailers have their issues and the quality control is as bad or worse than stick built trailers . Stick built usually are built using a jig where FG trailers use the free hand close enough is good enough method ( Hand Grenade Method)
I have found areas on both my FG trailers where the only thing keeping the rain out was the gelcoat cause someone forgot the fiberglass backer.
The wood cabinets in FG trailers are equal to or lower in quality then the cabinets in low end stick builts. ( Staples and hot melt glue is not quality )
The plumbing and wiring in the stick built trailers is often better then the FG trailers in both material and installation methods.

I wired / worked on new homes for over 40 years and from what I've seen the FG trailer industry has little to brag about and much to be ashamed of .
Jayco makes a pretty good trailer IMHO

In your opinion is there a reason I should buy a fiberglass trailer?

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Cliff Hotchkiss

In your opinion is there a reason I should buy a fiberglass trailer?

I own a fiberglass trailer but this constant loathing of stick built trailers and patting ourselves on the back because we are the chosen ones who chose FG is getting old .
Fiberglass trailers have their benefits but they are not perfect by any means and their price often exceeds the quality of their build
I have never gained one iota of intellectual superiority by buying or being the owner of any mass produced product.
There are some great stick built trailers on the road and we need to recognize that fact. FG is not the only way to see the country or make memories

[k corbin]

Every business benefits from efficient methods of assembly and if they have their heads screwed on right is a must do goal for having a profitable business. The speed at which things can be assembled does not necessary reflect on the quality of the product. What it does reflect on is that the product designers and the engineers who plan things such as production facilities took the time to think it through to eliminate wasted time and wasted motions. Hopefully also combined with safety and ergonomics to reduce the physical stress on the workers.

Should a company be proud of how little time it takes them to assembly a product? Yes of course they should, achieving such things takes a lot of care, thought, planning and also an investment in tooling as well as the training of the employees.

It is very popular for marketing purposes for companies to create and show assembly films. Boeing has them, Rolls Royce has them Volkswagon, etc. Here is one from Rolls Royce jet engines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2R6NTgvEV4

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Tom 72

A week ago, I read that the RVIA says 505,000 units will be manufactured this year, or double a decade ago. First, baby boomers are retiring, and second, the industry may have been in a recession a decade ago.

I doubt anyone thinks they are making 505,000 new campsites, unless you count WalMart parking lots.

PS, the small manufacturers of molded fiberglass trailers are likely not RVIA members. Someone said Casita makes 4/day, or around 1,000 in a 250 day work year. Jon says Scamp may produce about 450/yr. I don't know about others.

Parkliner is going the dealer route, distributed with T@Bs & T@Gs, I guess. I called the Denver Dealer listed. He doesn't carry Parkliners.

Of those, how many are replacement and how many are growth?
Perspective...
Last year, the best selling single vehicle in the U.S. produced 840,000 units.
Seems like a lot, but its a drop in the bucket of nearly 300,000,000 vehicles, only 1/3 of 1% of a fleet which averages only 11 years of age. We don't really need that many more parking spots.
500,000 may still represent a substantial increase in RVs, but I wonder what the average fleet age is, and how it stacks up when fiberglass is isolated out separately?

[ZachO]

Originally Posted by k corbin

Every business benefits from efficient methods of assembly and if they have their heads screwed on right is a must do goal for having a profitable business. The speed at which things can be assembled does not necessary reflect on the quality of the product. What it does reflect on is that the product designers and the engineers who plan things such as production facilities took the time to think it through to eliminate wasted time and wasted motions. Hopefully also combined with safety and ergonomics to reduce the physical stress on the workers.

Should a company be proud of how little time it takes them to assembly a product? Yes of course they should, achieving such things takes a lot of care, thought, planning and also an investment in tooling as well as the training of the employees.

I can't disagree with any of that, but what I saw in the first video posted, which is my subjective opinion, is "rushed". Yeah, definitely some cool efficiency and streamlining, but what really jumped out at me was that it felt very rushed. No time to make sure it's right, just get it out the door and let the warranty sort it all out.

[Mike_L]

I'm an avid "boondocker". My unit gets punished harshly traveling the back roads. I've owned both "stick-built" and FG units. My first trailer was a stick-built. It was built like a tank and served me well. It survived many hail storms and had thousands of tiny dents but was still solid when I sold it and never leaked. I had a stick-built unit that got totaled by tennis ball sized hail at two years old. It leaked like a basket from new. Many dealer attempts to fix these leaks were all unsuccessful so maybe the hail demolition was actually a good thing.
My current unit is fiberglass. I haven't been able to find any damage whatsoever from towing it over gravel roads or the numerous hail storms it has endured. I wouldn't touch anything else but a fiberglass shelled unit.
As for cabinets; it depends on how they are made and what they are made of. Particle board sucks! The unit that leaked from new had all solid oak cabinetry. It was solid and looked beautiful, even with the water dripping off it. I wish I had the same stuff in my current unit.
I've seen campgrounds under 6 feet of water. The stick-built units were on the bottom. Many of the FG units were floating, at least initially.
It's hard to generalize. FG shells are definitely more durable. Other than that the other components come in good and not so good.

[charlsara]

[QUOTE=Kai in Seattle;675916]Thanks for the video; we watched it with great interest.



I had some thoughts: first, all that lumber makes the thing heavy. Far heavier than, say, our 16' amerigo at 1997 registered pounds. (Dry weight) Means you have to have some heavier-duty tow set-up. Means gas mileage goes down. Okay. The JayFeather was something like 4600 pounds; our tow capacity is only 3600 and the salesman suggested a weight distribution hitch. I refused even to consider it.



Then, they are rolling out 32 a DAY. That's about 8500 units a year from THAT plant alone, and it was plant #fifty-something. FIFTY plants? So that's 8500 x 50? 425,000 trailers a YEAR? That cannot be right. It simply can't. Do I think "they" are also creating 8500-425,000 camp sites a year? I don't know.

I really don't.





I don’t think you have to worry much. Most of these trailers will go to the local lake a couple of times a year. The rest of their life will be spent will setting in a driveway without maintenance. They will eventually start leaking and be sold to a person like minded. Most of them will be junked within 10-12 years.