Genesis - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-01-2007, 07:10 PM   #15
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Genesis
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Some
If it has a torson axle, what are the specs?

If it is a spring axle, does it have shocks, brakes and how many pounds will the axle support.

How many pounds will it haul?

Do you use LED lights inside and out?
Genesis utilizes a marine grade torsion axle with auto lube hubs rated for 3750 lbs. It has electric brakes and a 5-year warranty on the hubs. A company called Unique Functional Products in San Marcos, California manufactures it.

The weight of the trailer is 2860 lbs. The trailer is rated to carry 3500 lbs. This means that it can carry 640 lbs. of payload. The CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) is rated at 315 lbs. wet. This payload remains after allowing for 35 gallons of fresh water at 8.4 lbs. per gallon, plus 20 lbs. of propane. In our experience however, very few people fill the fresh tank prior to arriving at their destination. It is not very fuel efficient to carry around 300 lbs. of water, and the available payload can be better utilized carrying other items.

Most of the lights on the trailer are incandescent. This is mostly due to cost considerations. Genesis does utilize LED reading lights in two locations above the sofa/bed in the cabin area.

Steve
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:03 PM   #16
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I understand that the weight results from some very deliberate design decisions, and I'm not questioning that. I think it is good to have options, in a world of very similarly built RVs. It should be understood that this trailer is not towable by many vehicles with 3500 lb nominal tow ratings, because of the high hitch load... weight-distribution would be required in many cases (such as my Toyota Sienna), and that eliminates typical Class 2 hitches commonly found on small SUVs (and my van).

Since we're getting into details, one spec puzzles me; perhaps you might want to discuss it, Steve. The axle capacity is quite high (3750 lb); however, the GAWR rating is limited to 3220 lb, apparently because the 195/75D14 (load range C) tires are only rated for 1610 lb each. For comparison, my old 17' Boler is a few hundred pounds lighter, and came on F78-14 (now 205/75-14 tires), typical of "eggs" of this size. In such a substantially constructed design as the Genesis, why not a larger tire? ST205/75-14 tires (still load range C) would make 300 lb of axle capacity available, for people who want to carry more stuff, and would provide a reassuring margin for those who don't.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:06 PM   #17
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... In our experience however, very few people fill the fresh tank prior to arriving at their destination. It is not very fuel efficient to carry around 300 lbs. of water, and the available payload can be better utilized carrying other items.
That seems to be the consensus in this forum, too, and it's what I have done.

Sometimes, though, there's no water source at the campsite and at least the last bit of the haul needs to include water. It would be too bad to have to leave something behind because it could not be accommodated for the last hour of a day-long trip to a remote destination.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:44 PM   #18
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:27 AM   #19
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I understand that the weight results from some very deliberate design decisions, and I'm not questioning that. I think it is good to have options, in a world of very similarly built RVs. It should be understood that this trailer is not towable by many vehicles with 3500 lb nominal tow ratings, because of the high hitch load... weight-distribution would be required in many cases (such as my Toyota Sienna), and that eliminates typical Class 2 hitches commonly found on small SUVs (and my van).

Since we're getting into details, one spec puzzles me; perhaps you might want to discuss it, Steve. The axle capacity is quite high (3750 lb); however, the GAWR rating is limited to 3220 lb, apparently because the 195/75D14 (load range C) [b]tires are only rated for 1610 lb each. For comparison, my old 17' Boler is a few hundred pounds lighter, and came on F78-14 (now 205/75-14 tires), typical of "eggs" of this size. In such a substantially constructed design as the Genesis, why not a larger tire? ST205/75-14 tires (still load range C) would make 300 lb of axle capacity available, for people who want to carry more stuff, and would provide a reassuring margin for those who don't.
Brian, you are quite correct in everything that you state. Towing should always be safe, and according to the capabilities of the tow vehicle. As a side note, we are seeing a reduction in the tongue weight of the production units to about 390 lbs. Also, bear in mind that the galley and fresh tanks (and therefore the bulk of the cargo load) are behind the axle, and will therefore lighten the tongue as the trailer is loaded.

With regard to the tires and axle, the numbers you quote are right on. Due to the GVWR, we did not see a need to increase the capacity of the tires to match the axle, but since you mention it, we are considering a change to a new tire, an ST195/75D14D 8 Ply Sure Trail MTD which is rated for 1880 lbs. This will bring the tires in line with the axle capacity at 3750 lbs.

The coupler on the tongue, which is rated at 3500 lbs, limits the GVWR of the Genesis trailer. We could of course increase the coupler to 5000 lbs., the result of which would be that the trailer would have a GVWR of something in the neighborhood of 4150 lbs., a payload of 1290 lbs., and a CCC of around 950 lbs. wet. Therefore, while the trailer is designed to handle these loads, we did not want to change the coupler and publish such a GVWR for a trailer that weighs 2860 lbs., as we were afraid we might scare people off with such a high GVWR.

Steve
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:43 AM   #20
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Jack, I am not sure why you removed your post, as you said what you feel. In any case, I respect your passion.

There was a fellow named Lutz, who took over Chrysler from Iacocca, in the days before the Germans bought the company. When he came on board, Chrysler had been building the K cars for many years, and they were stale. Their designers and engineers were scoring 7's and 8's on a scale of 1 to 10 in the consumer focus groups, and were very proud of these scores. Problem was nobody was buying their cars.

So along came Lutz. He dictated that they build something very nitchy and unusual. With reservations, the engineers and designers went to work. The resulting car scored 0's and 10's, polarizing the focus groups. Lutz ordered the car into production, and they sold every vehicle they made, and made very good money doing it. The car? It was the Viper. Two seats, completely impractical, overpriced, it was a hit. It was also pretty and fun.

Lutz was making the point to his staff that polarization is a good thing. People may love it or hate it, but the ones who love it will buy it. People who rate something a seven, likely will not.

Jack, I guess for you, Genesis is a zero. If I agree with Lutz, then that is OK. We can only hope that for some, it will be a 10.

Respectfully,

Steve
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:06 AM   #21
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Hey, Steve, since you are in the trailer design business, how about something that would fit through a 7 foot garage door, that could be pulled by a regular car?

Bobbie
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:35 AM   #22
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Hey, Steve, since you are in the trailer design business, how about something that would fit through a 7 foot garage door, that could be pulled by a regular car?

Bobbie
Bobbie, you have me stumped. The only way I can imagine to do that already exists, in the form of a folding trailer (they do make hard wall versions of this) or a teardrop.

Perhaps others have some thoughts on this.

Steve
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:46 AM   #23
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Bobbie, you have me stumped. The only way I can imagine to do that already exists, in the form of a folding trailer (they do make hard wall versions of this) or a teardrop.

Perhaps others have some thoughts on this.

Steve
A garageable towed RV that could be pulled by a sedan tug is also my fantasy. I live in a condo with a HOA. Although I have a huge garage with a standard door my trailer has to sit on a storage lot. With most trailers on the market I'll have storage fees for the rest of my life. (Been there done that with soft sided popups.) When I move up or on or whatever as an RVer those storage fees will be eliminated. Also, the current truck gets 10 mpg. Yes, it hauls trailer but it also sucks gas. The next vehicle will be more fuel efficient and probably have a MUCH lower tow rating.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:48 AM   #24
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Bobbie, you have me stumped. The only way I can imagine to do that already exists, in the form of a folding trailer (they do make hard wall versions of this) or a teardrop.

Perhaps others have some thoughts on this.

Steve
Well, there are at least 3 fairly simple approaches:

1) Reduced headroom. Not as short as a teardrop - but not 'standing' room. If you spend 95% of your time either laying or sitting - why have the extra headroom?

2) Move the floor closer to the ground. Reduced clearance reduces the ability to go offroad - but means you don't need a step to get into it. My old Boler was VERY close to the ground. I could stand up in it (I'm 6") easily AND it rolled into our garage with a 6'10" door height.

3) Pop-Top trailers. This isn't a pop-top, only the upper 2' or so expands. The only US example I know of was an 18' Bantam - and of course a lot of truck campers. You get lots of storage since the non-folding part can easily be 5' tall. I've seen plenty of examples in Europe and Australia.

Mike
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:42 PM   #25
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I read Jackís post last night and felt is was to the point, polite, fair and put him on the zero side of scoring.

At one time I may have really looked hard at the Genesis. Today, Iím looking for a tandem axle, little bigger & a little wider FiberglassRV - 19í to 21í.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:46 PM   #26
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3) Pop-Top trailers. This isn't a pop-top, only the upper 2' or so expands.
I'm guessing you mean a pop-top isn't the same as a pop-up. If I had the skill, equipment, money and time I'd figure out a way to effciently lower and raise the upper portion of an egg with a belly band by about 5 inches purely for garaging purposes.

Steve's trailer will appeal to those folks who want to be able to stand full height in their trailer without mussing their hair or massaging their scalps. Those same folks will also like being able to stretch full length on their bed. (Since I'm 5'5" and the current gf is 2 inches shorter than me, not a factor in my house.) It will also appeal to the tired of tents, teardrops and/or popup people who are interested in stepping up to a hard-sided more secure camper. Its for outdoors people who have all of their non-sleeping activities outside the trailer, not the traveling hotel room people. In a sense it is an entry level travel trailer without the entry level quality or price.
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:24 PM   #27
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I want to start by saying that if the Genisis had been available when I first decided to get a trailer a couple of years ago, I'd have been **very** interested. I started by looking at teardrops, and the design still appeals to me. I'm definitely one of the people who would be excited by the headroom. And I really like that Steve has made a conscious decision to put out a high-quality trailer with plenty of standard amenities that we here all talk about somehow incorporating in our own trailers.

I don't entirely understand all of the technicalities that have been discussed about weght issues. I do agree that the trailer is a little on the heavy side, because even though my Villager could tow it (at 3500lb capacity), by the time I loaded up I wouldn't want to tow it. That would put me well inside my safety margins and maybe on the wrong side of them. I think a couple hundred pound reduction would go a long way in buyer appeal. On the other hand, I don't know how you'd do it and maintain all the features. Just a thought from someone who tows with a lower capacity vehicle.

A feature that has me confused is the washroom. I'm not knocking an indoor privy, y'unnerstand. But in my head (pun intended), the sort of camper that is going to be willing to stand out in cruddy weather to do his cooking isn't going to mind a hike to the bathroom when one is available. Or if boondocking, that camper is probably going to set up a privy somewhere -- or will just act like a bear. The washroom is a nice feature, and maybe in the future it could be an option, as with Scamp/Casita, leaving room for additional storage/seating/bunks.

Only one bed is a drawback. I think there are a lot of families that would love a trailer like this but who would not buy due to it having only one bed. I think many of them would be thrilled to substitute a set of bunks for the washroom. My son (and his wife!) comes to mind.

Somebody already mentioned it, but I'm saying it again: here in the rainy NW where I am, snap-on walls for the kitchen area would be very desirable. Very. Very. Very. I'd pay extra for them, yes I would.

A fold-down table on the inside would be useful, perhaps opposite the door. Someplace to put the teacup and watercress sandwiches while watching Anne of Green Gables on a rainy day.

Overall, I like the looks, features, and feel of this trailer. I hope I get the chance to see one before too long.

Steve, thanks for coming and showing it to us, and for all the feedback you've given about the design rationales, construction, and features.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:05 PM   #28
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A feature that has me confused is the washroom. I'm not knocking an indoor privy, y'unnerstand. But in my head (pun intended), the sort of camper that is going to be willing to stand out in cruddy weather to do his cooking isn't going to mind a hike to the bathroom when one is available. Or if boondocking, that camper is probably going to set up a privy somewhere -- or will just act like a bear. The washroom is a nice feature, and maybe in the future it could be an option, as with Scamp/Casita, leaving room for additional storage/seating/bunks.

Only one bed is a drawback. I think there are a lot of families that would love a trailer like this but who would not buy due to it having only one bed. I think many of them would be thrilled to substitute a set of bunks for the washroom. My son (and his wife!) comes to mind.

Somebody already mentioned it, but I'm saying it again: here in the rainy NW where I am, snap-on walls for the kitchen area would be very desirable. Very. Very. Very. I'd pay extra for them, yes I would.

A fold-down table on the inside would be useful, perhaps opposite the door. Someplace to put the teacup and watercress sandwiches while watching Anne of Green Gables on a rainy day.
Good points all. Given the reaction here, we will need to do some work on the weight as you suggest. I especially like the bunk bed idea. Your comment even makes me think of a way to place a bunk and keep the shower/bath/lavy. That suggestion alone really makes me glad we joined the group. I think we will learn a lot here about what people want. The garageable unit idea is very cool also.

With regard to a table, we do include a couple of tablemates with the unit. These are a kind of TV table that snuggle up to the sofa, and fold flat. We chose these so that they could serve a dual use inside and out, and they work well with the sofa bed design. However, I have to admit, a folding table would be nice.

Thanks to you and everyone here for the comments and suggestions.

Steve
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