How do Public Campground Reservations Work?

[steve dunham]

Joy is correct !!! . Reserve America made more money last year off Wisconsin state parks than the State of Wisconsin. The state out sourced the reservation system under the guise of cost savings,. If you look at the wages saved by farming out the work , on paper the state saved money but when you factor in tax revenues lost on the wages and sales taxes lost on purchases that would have been made by the employees .THE STATE SAVED NOTHING AND LOST MONEY.

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Joy is correct !!! . Reserve America made more money last year off Wisconsin state parks than the State of Wisconsin. The state out sourced the reservation system under the guise of cost savings,. If you look at the wages saved by farming out the work , on paper the state saved money but when you factor in tax revenues lost on the wages and sales taxes lost on purchases that would have been made by the employees .THE STATE SAVED NOTHING AND LOST MONEY.

Sounds about typical these days. Our country is for sale to the highest bidder. If there's going to be commercial entities charged with this, there needs to be several in competition. If we're not going to go the not for profit, "let the government manage our public lands" route, there at least needs to be strong competition. One appointed company is the worst of either, government or commercial.

[Marsha D]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

We took our UHaul out for an overnighter nearby to do a shake down before we leave for a longer trip.

Surprisingly, the "ranger" told us that we couldn't stay in the site we chose, as it's for people that reserved on line only. He stated that if we had internet access we could go online and reserve that same site, then stay there, otherwise, we had to stay in a "walk in" site. He said he had no access to the reservation site. This was a Michigan state park.

I'm curious if the National Forest campground reservations are similarly run??

We've always stayed at SF or NF campgrounds and have never had to make a reservation. They are on first come basis. Never occurred to us that we would have to make a reservation, and we've never been turned away from any open sites.

[Raz]

We have found many National Forest Campgrounds run by concessionaires and in the Reserve.gov system. Both add to the cost of a camp site for walk ins. More and more the Forest Service and the Park Service are farming things out.

For example.....
http://www.recreation.gov/marketing....eProvider.html

[Roger Kimble]

If the goverment doesen't have to make a profit and a private co. does, how can they do it cheaper than the goverment.

[BCDave]

Originally Posted by Roger Kimble

If the goverment doesen't have to make a profit and a private co. does, how can they do it cheaper than the goverment.

From the gov't viewpoint, its a no-brainer

As the Gov I can hire staff, pay them, put them on the benefits rolls etc and provide office space for them plus phone lines & computers

OR

I can have a Company called Reserve America PAY ME to take over the whole thing and I not only get $$$ income, but I save all the other costs!

What astonishes me is that the Gov't still issues drivers licenses, still admins toll bridges & roads still does so many of the tings that gov'ts do, instead of making $$ on them, thereby being in a position to reduce taxes.

[dylanear]

Originally Posted by Roger Kimble

If the goverment doesen't have to make a profit and a private co. does, how can they do it cheaper than the goverment.

To be fair, sometime the government can be awful wasteful. But to me the solution is better government, not selling it off to one company trying to make a profit. There's times and places for both, but I'm not sure I'm seeing the value in these for profit companies running our parks when not so well paid ranger and park workers are being laid off, overworked and getting their benefits cut.

I'm not 100% opposed to private vendors as part of our public recreation areas. The vendor who runs a lot of the Grand Canyon amenities (Xanterra?) does a pretty decent job. The meal I had at the El Tovar was exquisite, far from some park service hot dog and burger stand. But it was also very expensive. And I do think there should be transparent accounting. They better not be making 20% profit unless they are demonstrating AMAZING efficiencies compared to the publicly run parks.

I think a proper ratio of government (non profit) and private (for profit) competing can be a good thing. I'd love to see a non-profit (but not subsidized either) government created health insurance option that would drive competition with the private insurers (as it is they collude more than compete I'm afraid).

Sorry if this is getting way off topic or too political, but it is in "General Chat".

[Alf S.]

Hi: All... Here in Ontario the Provincial Parks always have a certain %age of sites that are non reservable...1st. come 1st. served basis. Too bad the rates are so high compared to the N.Y. State Pks. for instance.
Can't wait to qualify for the seniors(over 65) discount!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Alf S.

Hi: All... Here in Ontario the Provincial Parks always have a certain %age of sites that are non reservable...1st. come 1st. served basis. Too bad the rates are so high compared to the N.Y. State Pks. for instance.
Can't wait to qualify for the seniors(over 65) discount!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

That says a lot because N.Y. is quite pricey. Raz

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by BCDave

From the gov't viewpoint, its a no-brainer

As the Gov I can hire staff, pay them, put them on the benefits rolls etc and provide office space for them plus phone lines & computers

OR

I can have a Company called Reserve America PAY ME to take over the whole thing and I not only get $$$ income, but I save all the other costs!

What astonishes me is that the Gov't still issues drivers licenses, still admins toll bridges & roads still does so many of the tings that gov'ts do, instead of making $$ on them, thereby being in a position to reduce taxes.

Wisconsin charges $17.00 for a camp site .Reserve America charges $8.00 for reserving the camp site . Wisconsin furnishes the park , bathrooms, showers, toilets, drinking water. a dump station, electricity, park rangers, activities for kids , a swimming beach , pavilions fire rings , picnic tables , picnic area, jobs for it's citizens etc etc. Reserve America furnishes a website where I can self reserve a campsite. Which one do you think is making money , it ain't the Wisconsin park system

[Mary F]

Originally Posted by dylanear

To be fair, ...
I think a proper ratio of government (non profit) and private (for profit) competing can be a good thing. I'd love to see a non-profit (but not subsidized either) government created health insurance option that would drive competition with the private insurers (as it is they collude more than compete I'm afraid).

Sorry if this is getting way off topic or too political, but it is in "General Chat".

Yep, Dylan. This has strayed way off topic and is decidedly political.

Please, even in General Chat, we want to all be friends as if gathered 'round a campfire.

Leaving politics out of our discussions helps keep things friendly.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Joy is correct !!! . Reserve America made more money last year off Wisconsin state parks than the State of Wisconsin. The state out sourced the reservation system under the guise of cost savings,. If you look at the wages saved by farming out the work , on paper the state saved money but when you factor in tax revenues lost on the wages and sales taxes lost on purchases that would have been made by the employees .THE STATE SAVED NOTHING AND LOST MONEY.

We stayed at Brunet Island State Park near Cornell Wisconsin from July 23 to July 26 , 2012 . The site I had reserved was vacant for July,22 so I called the park and asked about coming a day early. I was told that was a reservable site and I would have to reserve it through " Reserve America." and by the way the reservation fee had gone up to $10.00. ( Camping fee was still $17.00/ Day) The other option I was given was to drive down , hope there was a vacant walk in site , stay there for the night of the 22nd and then move to my reserved site on the 23rd . If I did not move to my reserved site on the 23rd , I would be charged for 2 sites. I felt sorry for the Park Ranger , he has no say in the matter but gets most of the abuse. for a faulty system

[Raz]

Makes perfect sense to us. .