HUD Regulations...Tiny Houses vs. RV Fulltimers - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-12-2016, 11:05 AM   #29
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Back in the 60s my mother owned and lived in a New Moon house trailer and had to have a license plate tax paid every year and the plate was attached to the rear. The trailer was up on blocks and the tires were off the ground. I think the tires had to remain on the unit for it to be classified as a trailer.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:19 AM   #30
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That's fascinating, Roger. I had no idea that the Aussies had bigger homes on average than us Americans (or that Hong Kong residents lived in 500 square foot homes, for that matter). Interesting! Thanks for posting it. I agree that the monumentally different RV-sizes are "what makes camping in a campground so interesting." Dollars to donuts, the same thing would happen in neighborhoods if people were allowed to build and live in tiny houses, campers or mobile homes as well as big houses (i.e. in the absence of the ubiquitous zoning laws that prohibit such salutary things from happening, of course).
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:28 AM   #31
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Henry Smith, The article you re-published is interesting in that the author saw that the Tiny House Movement had elected to build their creations on wheels in an effort to circumvent building codes, taxes and regulations.

That was in fact what brought HUD back into the issue and HUD then felt it necessary to reaffirm the special RIVA negotiated RV status while letting the new Tiny House folks know that they were not campers, or RV owners but we're in fact builders of housing intended for Permanent Residential use. That put them in the same regulatory venue as "modular housing", Mobile Homes, single and double wides etc., requiring certificates of occupancy after complying with all building and sanitation codes.

Result: Tiny Houses are residential housing not campers.
Tiny Houses are subject to real estate taxes and regulations.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:05 PM   #32
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i could not find the article that the missing link from the original post on this thread refers to.
i did find a snopes article that tried to explain how that the new hud rules don't "ban" tiny houses or full-timing.
but given as how similar laws, i mean rules, have tended to drive such things out of existence in the past i see no reason to doubt the eventual outcome.
as has been exemplified by the tv show tiny house nation though, most tiny builders and modifiers do try to meet or exceed any potentially applicable regulations.
maybe this will give us more clarification.
or maybe it will only lead to further persecution.
only respectful logical discussion over time will be able to tell us which outcome is most likely.
so please let us continue the discussion of laws pertaining to tiny living such as fiberglass rv full-timing.


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Old 04-12-2016, 01:08 PM   #33
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Those New Moon campers and the three axle Air Streams are classic examples of park trailers I mentioned earlier. You could tow them as in the Lucy comedy the Long Trailer but many reached sizes that made that very difficult.


This picture is a classic. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_i_AovfzNXg...3-IMG_7912.jpg


Or this one. I passed on like it doing 50 mph on the freeway, even with the speed difference it took a loooong time to pass it. http://www.airstreamclassifieds.com/.../02/450612.jpg
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:05 PM   #34
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but those are actual trailers ostensibly manufactured according to RVIA standards.
they would be ok for the new rules, right?
it's DIY and rebult models that are being targeted now, right?


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Old 04-13-2016, 12:29 PM   #35
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Wessonjoe, Please note that HUD got involved because the Tiny House Movement was constructing their residential structures on wheels seeking in many cases to obtain RV status.(based on their small square footage alone).
RVs are in a separate building class separate from RVs. This status is the result of the hard work of the RVIA with federal agencies (HUD in this case) to maintain our special status.
HUD let the Tiny House folks know they were not RVs but rather full time residential structures no matter how small,they were built.
That placed them in the same category as modular homes, manufactured homes...a.k.a. Double wides etc.
That made them taxable as real estate property no matter where they we parked.

Summary: RVs remain in a protected class...no change for Fulltimers living in actual RVs....all is well...for now.
Stay informed...this topic is being covered by ... rvtravel.com. Subscription to their weekly newsletter is free.

Happy Camping.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:35 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by wessonjoe View Post
but those are actual trailers ostensibly manufactured according to RVIA standards.
they would be ok for the new rules, right?
it's DIY and rebult models that are being targeted now, right?


.
The 2 pictured above are both RV's. One real old and the Airstream 80's-90's vintage. Both built originally as recreational camper trailers and would meet RVIA standards if in place at time of their manufacture.

Yes it is the DIY, trailer structures and none trailer based "Tiny" homes that are being built for the purpose of permanent housing that do not meet national and local building codes for permanent housing that is required for mobile homes, park homes, manufactured housing, modular housing and permanent housing structures that are being targeted.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:58 PM   #37
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Where I live, in order to avoid favouritism, we leave "u" out of it!
Floyd I totally understand that, which is why in this area about 15 years ago the homeowners started to kick back and started to lobby the local government to but the "U" back into it and allow "U" to actually have a big say in what happens in your own neighbourhood.

As I said previously the process of putting the "U" back in the decisions made as to what bylaws would apply to each neighbourhood was not a fast or easy thing to achieve - as you can imagine all the "U"'s living in the area had to have their say. But on reflection it was a process that I strongly suspect most would agree was worth the time to take as complaints regarding what so and so is building next door have dropped dramatically at the local government level or well as from neighbour to neighbour, since the neighbourhood zonings came to be. A number of communities both in the Canada and the US have since used the model this District took to follow in an attempt to reduce the conflicts/anger amongst homeowners so commonly found in areas that are seeing increased development or large pockets of redevelopment.

Bottom line is if people do not like the laws the local government has put in place the only way it will ever change is if the "U"'s step up and actually put some time and effort into changing it to something they can live happier with.

I like many in the fibreglass community wish that the rules governing where and when I can park my trailer in the driveway were not in place but I also understand that not everyone takes care of their trailers. To be honest I really do not want the view out my front window to be that of a trailer or boat that has not moved in years covered in tarps or a portable garbage that itself is failing down. So I can appreciate the reasons for the District wide rule of no boats or trailers in the driveway during winter months.
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:05 PM   #38
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Funny thing about laws and rules. They almost always exist because someone wants to do something and someone else thinks it is a bad idea that should not be allowed.


When enough people think something is a bad idea and agree with "there ought to be a law" then one happens. Sometimes it can be a case not of the number of people but the passion on one side or the other.
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:22 PM   #39
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What is said above is true, but doesn't mention the most important responsibility of all: The duty to leave people alone if they're not directly harming you. That's not a popular idea these days, as everyone leaps to use government to implement their own ideas of what is "acceptable" or what is "harmful".

Why not leave people alone? If they want to live in a tiny home, what business is it of ours? If they want to put a trailer on their land and live in it, what should we care? I've lived in trailer parks filled with junky trailers and shacks. In one was a poet and novelist. In another a geneticist working on his Ph.D. In another a family raising 5 kids, 4 of whom became medical doctors when they grew up. In yet another trashy trailer was a young woman attending law school. Terrible neighbors because they lived in relatively run-down places? I beg to differ.
The BIG issue is not whether or not good people/kids can come out of messy neighbourhoods - they sure can! The issue as I see it is that not everyone has the common sense to know what is or is not harming their neighbour.

For example I was reading an newspaper article a few years go that suggested your neighbours messy yard can impact the value of your property by as much as 25%. Depending on where you live & the value of housing that may not equate to a great deal of harm - your example of a trailer park where all the yards are messy is a good example but in areas such as in Vancouver, BC where currently a 55 year old 3 bedroom house are selling for over 2.2 million the level of harm due to the neighbours messy yard or old trailer hoarding can be high.
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:21 PM   #40
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...Sometimes it can be a case not of the number of people but the passion on one side or the other.
…or more often the power (political, social, economic) of one side or the other.
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Old 04-13-2016, 08:16 PM   #41
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Carol, I just can't help responding to some of what you've said above, with all due respect (and I realize I'm probably part of a very small minority here...maybe even a minority of one! )

You said: "To be honest I really do not want the view out my front window to be that of a trailer or boat that has not moved in years covered in tarps or a portable garbage that itself is failing down."

I respond: So what? Maybe there are people who don't like the color of your house, or the shape of your home's front door, or the kind of car you drive. I repeat: So what? Since when should a person or group have the power to dictate to you how to live or what you have on your own land? You know, it used to be that people objected strenuously to having black people move into the neighborhood. "It drives down property values" was the argument.

You also said: "The issue as I see it is that not everyone has the common sense to know what is or is not harming their neighbour. For example I was reading an newspaper article a few years go that suggested your neighbours messy yard can impact the value of your property by as much as 25%."

My response is the same: So what? Which is more important? That people be forced to orient their lives in such a way that your property value is conserved? Or exercising the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness...including when someone thinks that doing so might "negatively impact property values"?
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:08 PM   #42
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My response is the same: So what? Which is more important? That people be forced to orient their lives in such a way that your property value is conserved? Or exercising the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness...including when someone thinks that doing so might "negatively impact property values"?
I get it now Henry. We allow YOU to exercise YOUR inalienable rights. Nobody else matters.
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