HUD Regulations...Tiny Houses vs. RV Fulltimers - Page 5 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-14-2016, 04:53 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Yup local government needs to maintain aging infrastructure such as sewer, storm water systems, roads, recreation centres, libraries etc no matter what the property values are. Just as home owner needs to keep maintain their home - new roof, new hot water tank, new furnace needed every so many years.

The cost of doing so does not change just because the value of properties went down.
Where I live, sewer, storm water systems,roads, and recreation centers are not supported through real estate taxes.
Libraries are, now that they have torn down the free Carnegie Library which was adequately funded through voluntary work and support, and replaced it with an inferior building supported by making the library a taxing body with the head Librarian making $140,000 per year plus benefits.

Most agree that taxes are to some degree necessary and that the rate should be fair....
Unfortunately "fair" is too often seen as a synonym to "carnival", with too many clowns farding around with other people's money.
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Old 04-14-2016, 05:03 PM   #58
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If done properly the equipment/property replacement funds should be in the bank at the time the equipment/property needs replacement/rebuild.

This is rarely - if ever done properly by gov't planners. Instead, they use 'aging infrastructure' as an excuse to raise taxes to cover their incompetence.
And to cover their rapacity. If we maintained our homes the way governments operate, we'd spend ever-larger amounts of money, every year...into infinity.
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Old 04-14-2016, 06:13 PM   #59
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Where I live, sewer, storm water systems,roads, and recreation centers are not supported through real estate taxes.
So how (& who) sets your taxes for such items, if not based on the value of your property?

Or it it simple that no one fixes those items thus the resulting drop in property values in your neighbourhood?

The funny thing about the topic of local governments is people love to criticize them but in these parts the voter turnout is extremely low for local government elections. Yet they are the one group we vote in who have the greatest impact on the biggest chuck of our property taxes, as well as the day to day enjoyment of the community. Go figure.

Here they hold open houses at the local hall trying to engage the community on various issues, often very few people bother to show up. Again go figure.

Some might suggest a poorly run local government is a classic example of what you can expect in return for investing little into something. ;-)

Do not get me wrong. There plenty of things that I do not like about our local governments practices and some major decisions they have made over the years. But I learned a long time ago that in order for things to change one has to get informed and stand up and ask for a change and be willing to put some effort into helping to make it happen.
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Old 04-14-2016, 07:15 PM   #60
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Wondering if maybe, just maybe, we could return to the original point of this thread as it relates to RVs, particularly all-molded towables…

So I have a question, several actually.

What, exactly, is the difference between a tiny house and an RV? If I were to build my own trailer, what would determine whether it is classed as a tiny house or an RV? Tiny houses will now have to meet one of two residential codes. What codes do RVs have to meet? Who verifies compliance?

I'm wondering because the RVIA seems to be deeply involved in this issue on the RV side. I have often noticed that many RVs have a small emblem on them indicating the manufacturer is a member. From what I have read, I take it that the RVIA, among other things, publishes a set of standards or codes for RV construction. I also noticed that Oliver advertises itself as an RVIA member. Scamp is not, as far as I can tell (no emblem or indication in its advertising).
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:08 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
Wondering if maybe, just maybe, we could return to the original point of this thread as it relates to RVs, particularly all-molded towables…

So I have a question, several actually.

What, exactly, is the difference between a tiny house and an RV? If I were to build my own trailer, what would determine whether it is classed as a tiny house or an RV? Tiny houses will now have to meet one of two residential codes. What codes do RVs have to meet? Who verifies compliance?

I'm wondering because the RVIA seems to be deeply involved in this issue on the RV side. I have often noticed that many RVs have a small emblem on them indicating the manufacturer is a member. From what I have read, I take it that the RVIA, among other things, publishes a set of standards or codes for RV construction. I also noticed that Oliver advertises itself as an RVIA member. Scamp is not, as far as I can tell (no emblem or indication in its advertising).
Scamp considered buying RVIA stickers, but soon discovered that the cost per unit was prohibitive, as much as 5% of the purchase price.
Also note that the subscription does not include inspection for each trailer.

When the Oliver rep pointed to his sticker with pride, I offered to go to a nearby RV salvage yard and get as many stickers as he wished, all from trailers only a few years old. One thing I noticed was that many of the emblems were deteriorated as well!
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:16 AM   #62
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So how (& who) sets your taxes for such items, if not based on the value of your property?


.
Not to worry, everything is either taxed or against the law, some are even both!
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:21 AM   #63
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The funny thing about the topic of local governments is people love to criticize them but in these parts the voter turnout is extremely low for local government elections....Here they hold open houses at the local hall trying to engage the community on various issues, often very few people bother to show up. Again go figure.
There's no great mystery there, Carol. The answer is that people want to be left alone. The members of the permanent political classes (thank you Sarah Palin), with their very high salaries, lifetime job security, and gold-plated pensions, always say "if you don't like it then get involved." But people don't want to have to "get involved," they want to be left alone.

Owning and living in a fiberglass trailer is one defensive strategy. Another is to live in a place where there is very little government (in my area in New Hampshire, there are no zoning and no building codes, and the people there like it that way). Yet such strategies are difficult (there's a reason I also live in Florida). People shouldn't have to work hard or endure living hard to escape the depredations of "politics as usual".

So for all of the above reasons, I oppose bureaucrats trying to bring tiny homes under their power and control (so they can be taxed more!). I'd like to see the tiny homes get just as much protection from the political pirates as RV people have. After all, living in a travel trailer is hard, with many deprivations. The same is true of living in tiny houses on wheels.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:29 AM   #64
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Scamp considered buying RVIA stickers, but soon discovered that the cost per unit was prohibitive, as much as 5% of the purchase price.
Also note that the subscription does not include inspection for each trailer.

When the Oliver rep pointed to his sticker with pride, I offered to go to a nearby RV salvage yard and get as many stickers as he wished, all from trailers only a few years old. One thing I noticed was that many of the emblems were deteriorated as well!
Okay. It's expensive to be an RVIA member. It may be more marketing than substance. But what about the larger question of standards? Does RVIA publish standards? Are they widely accepted and followed by RV makers, independent of whether they are members or not? Or is buying an RV purely a situation of caveat emptor?
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:42 AM   #65
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Jon in AZ, Hope this thread gets back to the original subject and stops this endless dribble about government, taxes and infrastructure etc...nothing to go with RVing.

The RVIA does not publish standards but does get involved in the building codes for RVs and keeps them separate from the building codes imposed on housing.

It is simple...either it is a RV or it is a house.
HUD re-entered the picture as the Tiny House movement tried to use RV building codes for their units. The tried to be considered a RV based on their small square footage and the fact that the housing they created was built on wheels.
The fact remains that the Tiny Hoses were in fact houses and designed as permanent housing and not recreational vehicles....the key words here are "recreational" and "permanent housing". HUD made it clear small (tiny) square footage alone does not include tiny houses in the RV class...wheels or not!!!
There was also a "real property tax avoidance component" involved in the issue.

The taxation issue seems to have turned this thread into a discussion of government and taxation and away from Fulltimers in RVs.

It is time to end this quagmire of exchanges on local zoning laws and taxes.
Time to get back to RVs and Fulltimers following the sun in real RVs....free (for now at least) from more government involvement thanks to the agreement between HUD and the RVIA.

Happy Camping.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:12 AM   #66
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HUD Regulations...Tiny Houses vs. RV Fulltimers

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...real RVs[emphasis added]....free (for now at least) from more government involvement thanks to the agreement between HUD and the RVIA.
So how, exactly, do the new regulations draw the line? Seems to me that's the critical point. Whether it's mathematics, science, or governance, careful definitions are the foundation on which all else is built. This whole issue came about because tiny house folks were exploiting a grey area in previous definitions.

For the record, I am sympathetic to the tiny house movement. The idea that one needs XXXX square feet to be safe, comfortable, and socially responsible flies in the face of history, the rest of the world, environmental stewardship, and common sense. It parallels the micro-apartment movement in ultra-high-rent cities like NYC and SF. Living with less is good, as molded fiberglass RVs demonstrate in a different way.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:42 AM   #67
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Many years ago there was a thing called a "Mother-in-Law" house, which was a small home built in a person's back yard to give privacy,proximity, security and dignity to a parent who should not otherwise live alone.
These are largely gone now, along with corner grocery stores, due to zoning rules.

When I see these "Tiny Houses" I think of how they could serve that purpose once again offering peace of mind to families without suffering the disruption and indignity of having an elderly parent actually move in with them.

We had a couple of these backyard accommodations and corner groceries on our street growing up and I think they enhanced the value of the neighborhood... but I was too young to care about what they did to property values,guess I still am.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:59 AM   #68
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The idea that one needs XXXX square feet to be safe, comfortable, and socially responsible flies in the face of history, the rest of the world, environmental stewardship, and common sense. It parallels the micro-apartment movement in untra-high-rent cities like NYC and SF. Living with less is good, as molded fiberglass RVs demonstrate in a different way.
All true! I agree. But more taxes are always needed by all levels of government, and the tiny house movement is growing. If they're allowed to escape property taxes, it could be terrible. Who knows what might happen.

Come to think of it...isn't it unfair that us RV people should be able to live largely free of taxes? Shouldn't we also be included for tax purposes if tiny homes are? I mean, many RV's have more square footage under the roof than some tiny homes. Right?
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:30 AM   #69
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All true! I agree. But more taxes are always needed by all levels of government, and the tiny house movement is growing. If they're allowed to escape property taxes, it could be terrible. Who knows what might happen.

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Old 04-15-2016, 12:02 PM   #70
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In my over taxed state, I already pay property tax on my Casita so I assume someone with a tiny house would also.

As far as the other part of the discussion, If i move into an area that has all these rules about what you can and not do with you property, It was my responsibility to find out about these rules before moving and to live with them.
If I live out in a rural area and people start moving in around me and want to add all these rules and such, well they knew what my place was before they moved there. They should accept that and live with it. If I want to park a travel trailer in my carport or a tractor in my pole barn that is my business.
They should live with it or move.
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