HUD Regulations...Tiny Houses vs. RV Fulltimers - Page 6 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-15-2016, 12:07 PM   #71
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All true! I agree. But more taxes are always needed by all levels of government, and the tiny house movement is growing. If they're allowed to escape property taxes, it could be terrible. Who knows what might happen.

Come to think of it...isn't it unfair that us RV people should be able to live largely free of taxes? Shouldn't we also be included for tax purposes if tiny homes are? I mean, many RV's have more square footage under the roof than some tiny homes. Right?
Full-time RVers do pay taxes, including property taxes in many cases. It's included in the space rent at a private park.

As to your other point, government bodies are looking to increase revenues, true. But your neighbors are looking for fairness. Separate issues. In this case both interests align against the tiny house movement. Mother-in-law apartments and corner grocery stores, where permitted, are included in the property tax assessment.
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:46 PM   #72
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In Vancouver those mother-in-law apartments are called "lane-way houses" and there is currently a backlog of 700 applications to build. They are not cheap. Construction of one generally costs about $350,000.
You will not be allowed to build it out of corrugated tin or plant one of those 'tiny houses' that don't follow building codes ( just because you stuck wheels under it ).
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:04 PM   #73
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Okay. It's expensive to be an RVIA member. It may be more marketing than substance. But what about the larger question of standards? Does RVIA publish standards? Are they widely accepted and followed by RV makers, independent of whether they are members or not? Or is buying an RV purely a situation of caveat emptor?
I currently have a trailer in the driveway that has a RVIA sticker on it and despite having been out in the sun in Southern California for 12 years its VERY readable and looks like it could have been put on yesterday and it states the manufacture of the trailer certifies the trailer was manufacture to meet ANSI standard XXX.X

RVIA is basically a Professional organization that RV manufactures can choose to belong to.... just as you will find similar organization for many professions: - homebuilders, accountants, plumbers, electricians, etc In the case of some professions its not actually optional to belong to your professional organization - its mandated. The goal of such orginizations is to keep their membership up to date as to the current best practices and ANSI standards and members are expected to follow those standards. Like all professions there will be members who choose not to follow the organizations best practises policies - until they get caught!

I can tell you that the process of importing a trailer made in the USA that is under 16 years of age was made pretty easy due to that little sticker Easier than it was to import another US built trailer that was also less than 16 years of age at the time I imported it but it did not have a RIVA sticker on it showing it was compliant with the ANSI standards in place at the time of manufacturing.

As a consumer purchasing a new to you trailer, ask yourself which would make you feel more comfortable when buying a new trailer A) a trailer that states right on it that it conforms to the ANSI standard XXX or B ) One that was built by a party who decided they did not need anyone to tell them how to do it right.

Like every professional organization RIVA does not absolutely guarantee their membership actually did build every trailer to the ANSI standard set but it does provide the consumer with a bit more hope in that regard than one might have when purchasing from a manufacture who chooses not to belong to their professional organization.

On the other hand, I am aware that we do have at least one fibreglass trailer manufacture who does not actually belong to RIVA but who does keep up on the RV ANSI standards.
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:05 PM   #74
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RVIA (RVIA.org) is to the RV industry what SEMA (SEMA.ORG) is to the aftermarket automotive industry. A trade association that promotes in this case the RV industry, RV manufacturer's, re-seller's, dealer, parts vendors and anyone else associated with the RV industry.

Does RVIA have an agenda? Absolutely! RVIA is no different than any other trade group, PAC or lobbyist. Is RVIA good for the RV industry? That depends on your point of view. I believe they are.

Just look at the amount of posts and subjects posted here on this one fiberglass trailer site everyday. How many of those same posters have a ANY clue what's going on in DC or in local their local state legislatures and city councils concerning legislation that might adversely effect their use, ownership, storage, safety requirement or any other bit of what some consider foolish laws and restrictions proposed by the very idiots WE ourselves have elected to represent us? 1 or none at a maximum!

As has been noted by many above there are LOT'S of things that can effect our ownership, use, storage, taxation, differentiation of trailer types and general enjoyment of our RV. Without some type of watchdog group dedicated to the RV industry many of the freedom's we enjoy or dispise concerning our use, ownership, safety and construction of our own RV can be greatly effected. It this time of increased government intrusion into our live's "For Our Own Good" I for one am glad RVIA, SEMA and other organizations representing industries and causes that people are passionate about exist.

The 'Tiny House" will continue to grow as this becomes more and more a local issue as many in "Big Cities" try convince us of the need for more affordable (READ SUBSIDIZED) housing in these big cities. My own Mayor just "Pledged" $10MM from the cities Reserve Fund last week to this very issue yet SHE has NO right whatsoever to spend this money on this issue. That's what the city council does. She says "Affordable Housing" is GOOD for Nashville and so it shall be all the while AVOIDING this single biggest issue facing our city and many others across the nation which is transportation the movement of people in and out of the 5 county Metro Nashville area. Which one these issues makes more political hay for her?

Do I agree with EVERYTHING RVIA or SEMA does on my behalf for the RV & automotvie aftermarket industry? NO and neither does anyone else. However I AM glad they are working on my behalf as the RV & and Automotive Aftermarket industry are MUCH better because of their actions.

Instead of complaining why not see what RVIA is all about at RVIA.org and then YOU decide. Like what they do? Why not join the organization that helps the RV industry is so many ways. Don't like em? Then fight em all the way. That's what make our country and way of life the envy of the world. Most folks across the globe are just trying to "Scratch A Living" yet in the Good Ole USA we have leisure time, money and ability to "Enjoy the RV Lifestyle".

Ain't AMERICA GREAT?????
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:24 PM   #75
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If i move into an area that has all these rules about what you can and not do with you property, It was my responsibility to find out about these rules before moving and to live with them. If I live out in a rural area and people start moving in around me and want to add all these rules and such, well they knew what my place was before they moved there. They should accept that and live with it. If I want to park a travel trailer in my carport or a tractor in my pole barn that is my business. They should live with it or move.
Well spoken. That's why I'd never move into a subdivision or neighborhood with a homeowners' association that had the power to force compliance with their petty rules. One other thing too: When people do start moving into your neighborhood and start demanding rules and regulations be put in place to suit them, FIGHT IT. Such people are like termites...they never, ever stop eating away at your right to live the way you want to.
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:33 PM   #76
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In Vancouver those mother-in-law apartments are called "lane-way houses" and there is currently a backlog of 700 applications to build. .
In North Vancouver they are often called "Carriage Houses"
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Old 04-15-2016, 02:13 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post

I can tell you that the process of importing a trailer made in the USA that is under 16 years of age was made pretty easy due to that little sticker Easier than it was to import another US built trailer that was also less than 16 years of age at the time I imported it but it did not have a RIVA sticker on it showing it was compliant with the ANSI standards in place at the time of manufacturing.

As a consumer purchasing a new to you trailer, ask yourself which would make you feel more comfortable when buying a new trailer A) a trailer that states right on it that it conforms to the ANSI standard XXX or B ) One that was built by a party who decided they did not need anyone to tell them how to do it right.
So what if you just buy the sticker? Or is there paperwork needed to back it up?
I asked myself that question about comfort in buying a new trailer, looked at the product myself, interviewed the builder, and bought a Scamp. Then spent the extra $500 on a nice trip to Florida!
BTW, My Scamp will be 12Years old in about eight weeks and the spot where the sticker would be is still shiny and easier to wax than the sticker. As for the trailer, it is safe and sound and meets all relevant standards.
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:39 PM   #78
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So what if you just buy the sticker? Or is there paperwork needed to back it up?
I asked myself that question about comfort in buying a new trailer, looked at the product myself, interviewed the builder, and bought a Scamp. Then spent the extra $500 on a nice trip to Florida!
BTW, My Scamp will be 12Years old in about eight weeks and the spot where the sticker would be is still shiny and easier to wax than the sticker. As for the trailer, it is safe and sound and meets all relevant standards.
:lout Well Floyd like all things in life one could always try it. But in this case I would first recommend reading up on the penalties for being untruthful at a border crossing We would really miss you around here!!!

Its been my experience that at the border there is usually only one party on duty at any time who has been trained to do the trailer imports so one runs the risk that the party you are dealing with is very familiar with which trailers they can expect to see a RIVA sticker on and which ones they will not.

You would be very surprised as just how many border staff also happen to be fibreglass trailer fans and they do lurk here! LOL Not to mention that RIVA has an on line data base the border can use to look up which manufactures belong to RIVA an which do not. Will they check? Hard to say but I can tell you that one of the other requirements of importing is to have a letter from the trailers manufacture stating the trailer has no outstanding recalls against it. I had such a letter - yet the party I dealt with at the border still went on line to a data base and called up recall history for the trailer to be sure the manufactures letter was factual. I know as I was standing there when they did it.

I like you love my Scamp and have few concerns with it from a safety stand point as it has stood the test of time. It would not surprise me one bit if although not RIVA members Scamp is following the ANSA standards although maybe not all of them. As I said I know of at least one other popular fibreglass trailer manufacture that I am pretty sure is as well but they do not belong to RIVA & if I had to guess the reason for it, is it is due to their being a fairly new manufacture the cost is/was prohibitive. Bigfoot prior to running into financial issues and temp closing did belong to RIVA but if you look now they do not appear on the RIVA website as being members..... but again I suspect they are still well versed on the ANSA standards. In the case of Bigfoot my guess would be its most probable due to finances they are no longer a RIVA member. They seem to be making a go of it again so perhaps they will be a RIVA member again in the not to distant future.

On the other hand we both know in recent times here that we have seen some pretty unsafe build practise by new manufactures in the fibreglass trailer biz.

One example of that was a new trailer manufacture who for what ever reason did not even see fit to read the axle manufactures installation instructions regarding clearances or bother to read the battery manufactures install instructions regarding appropriate venting on their batteries. Pretty basic stuff. In both cases we had members here who where put at a fairly high risk of injury or death due to both those issues. In one case one member was very very fortunate to have had no harm done to a child who was sleeping on top of a battery compartment fire. Do I think that manufacture ever even bothered to read the ANSA standard on anything he did on that trailer? Do I suspect there is a high likelihood that trailer had other very unsafe build issues? Not normally a betting type but I would be willing to put a few dollars down on that one! :lout
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:50 PM   #79
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ANSI standards for those who love technical reading!

ANSI-American National Standards Institute
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:33 PM   #80
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Thanks, Mike, Carol, and Floyd for the education about RVIA and ANSI. I was unaware of the extent to which the RV industry is self-regulating. Caveat emptor, indeed.

I'm still curious how HUD defined each to make a clear distinction... but not enough to wade through pages of government-ese to read the original documents.
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:52 PM   #81
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Thanks, Mike, Carol, and Floyd for the education about RVIA and ANSI. I was unaware of the extent to which the RV industry is self-regulating. Caveat emptor, indeed.
While they are in fact pretty self-regulated, big brother does tend to look over them in many different ways and areas! For example DOT rules regarding placement of lights and types of lens's etc that can be used pretty well cover everything in that area.

It is also my understanding that they need to use a party who is licensed to do the electrical or at least oversea the electrical as well as propane installations etc.... which is the actual reason behind why some of the smaller manufactures do not offer propane appliances. Its not as some suggest a safety concern. If that is factual or not I am not sure.

So they are not totally unregulated. But its easy to see why some might choose to give preference to purchasing from a RIVA member vs a none member.
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:15 PM   #82
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While they are in fact pretty self-regulated, big brother does tend to look over them in many different ways and areas! For example DOT rules regarding placement of lights and types of lens's etc that can be used pretty well cover everything in that area.

It is also my understanding that they need to use a party who is licensed to do the electrical or at least oversea the electrical as well as propane installations etc.... which is the actual reason behind why some of the smaller manufactures do not offer propane appliances. Its not as some suggest a safety concern. If that is factual or not I am not sure.

So they are not totally unregulated. But its easy to see why some might choose to give preference to purchasing from a RIVA member vs a none member.
Gotcha. I heard the reason some do not offer propane had to do with the cost of meeting insurance requirements, not government regulatory requirements (that was in regard to EggCamper in particular). Insurance companies have a lot of power, and they're probably more effective at changing behavior than government regulations.

My impression of transportation licensing agencies is that they care about little beyond exterior dimensions, weight, brakes, and lighting. They certainly seem to have no interest in what's inside the RV or in policing whether RV electrical and propane systems meet safety standards (in spite of the many RV fires I have witnessed on public roadways).
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:30 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post

My impression of transportation licensing agencies is that they care about little beyond exterior dimensions, weight, brakes, and lighting. They certainly seem to have no interest in what's inside the RV or in policing whether RV electrical and propane systems meet safety standards (in spite of the many RV fires I have witnessed on public roadways).
Having taken two trailers through a required transportation inspection in order to register them in this country all of the above is 100% correct. Mostly interested in the placement of outside lights and the lens covers DOT # and the brake away system. But I did note on the most recent inspection that this time they did take a look at the tires on the trailer to make sure they conformed with weights & size stated on the trailer manufactures label. I do not recall them doing that when the Scamp was inspected, perhaps because it did not have such a detailed label on the outside of it. ;-)
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:31 AM   #84
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This topic now has 84 reply posts and counting...might be some new record.

Love 'um or hate 'um regulations are here to stay along with safety regulations and building codes. When it comes to electricity and propane I find it comforting to know that somebody is looking out for our safety.

It seems that the RVIA (RVIA.org) is the only organization looking out for RVers.
Somebody had to get involved and establish minimum codes and safety standards or goodness knows what we would have ended up with
A look at some of the "Tiny Houses" could give you a glimpse at what a mess RVs could have become without some codes and standards.

Happy (Safe) Camping !
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