"Insane" 280 torque in little Mazda3 speed - Fiberglass RV
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:39 PM   #1
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Today's NY Times used that word in a review entitled, "Hatchback Slathered in Hot Sauce." Could such a vehicle safely tow some of the smaller fiberglass trailers often mentioned here since it sure seems to have the physical capacity?

No doubt it would be a fun change of pace. I've never owned a car than can go 150 mph and I suspect that's true of most folks here. This car is even faster than the RX-8.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/automobi...amp;oref=slogin

I own the re-engineered Mazda MX5 which came out a year ago in 2006. The car started with 120 horsepower back in 1990, then jumped to 140 horsepower and now reached 170 horsepower and is feature the cover of 2007 Consumer Reports (Apparently a turbo-speed version of the is on the way) The MX-5 was picked as the "most fun to drive" an ranke second (three way tie) among all cars in avoidance manuever. CR said the closest thing in a four door or wagon is the Suburu Impreza.

EXPENSIVE VEHICLES WITH POOR REVIEWS: It's amazing how much the price of a vehicle sometimes reflects status of a brand rather than qualities you'd want. I knew Jags and Land Rovers were expensive but trouble. What's interesting is how poorly some of the high-priced German cars (BMW 7 series, Mercedes) did in relialiability. Ditto some of Volkswagons, especially the Tuareg (about $50K) which is available with a DIESEL engine and might have interested folks here. Saabs didn't do well either (a friend of mine got nicked and dimed to deathowning one). The Nissan Altima got a "below average" use recommendation.

GOOD REVIEWS: Most Toyotas did well (one or two exceptions. Hondas did well. Among Mazdas the Mazda 5 wagon and the two vehicles above did well but not the Mazda Triute (safety issues) and Mazda 6. The GMC Yukon and Chevy Tahoe did well and were rated among the most satisfying large SUV's by readers.

MY MAZDA MIATA MX-5 VS. PORSCHE BOXSTER. Consumer reports recommended both but there's a whopping price difference. The Boxster costs MORE than twice as nuch. In cse there are any Porsche owners here, I'm not knocking the car but--not having unlimited funds--can't see how the difference is justified unless you get something substantially and obviously much, much better for the money.

The acceleration is virtually identical (Boxer 6.5 seconds, MX-5 6.7). Both handle great and I wouldn't know who has the edge there. There's no question however that the Boxster has had somewhat more trouble areas in the past than the Miata and that repairs and parts appear a bit more expensive as well.

Someone here wrote that "everyone likes there own RV best because we don't like to admit to mistakes. I can't help being biased when it comes to looks but other people's reactions seem similar to my own.

I parked the Miata at a shopping mall and discovered a Boxster about ten cars away--same exterior color, tops down on both. Later as I watched from the store as several people walked right past the Boxster but stopped to stare at the MX-5. Both had an attractive red exterior. The Miata's interior (black) with silver (pseudo?) roll bars behind both seats just looks sexier than Boxster beige with red.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Until last year we only needed one car because my wife was able to walk to work previously. Now--because of medical problems--it looks like she might have to retire at the end of September in September instead of two years down he road. Neither her Protege 5 nor my Miata will do for a tow vehicle so one--at least--will have got to go then. The Miata "speed" may have the power for some of the trailers here but I'd guess the size would be a problem. I'd imagine the sight of a turbo-charged red Miata towing a 13 foot small scamp would cause some campers to scratch their heads.
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:20 PM   #2
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I'd imagine the sight of a turbo-charged red Miata towing a 13 foot small scamp would cause some campers to scratch their heads.
In 1996, when I first encountered the Lite House, trailer-for-two, their promotional literature stated that there was one being towed by a Red Mazda Miata. However, it was only possible because the trailer only had the bed and storage cabinets. No stove, no sink & water tank, no icebox, no propane bottle, no battery, ....
... all to get the trailer's weight down to about 650 pounds. Basically a hard sided tent on wheels.
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Old 03-13-2007, 04:14 AM   #3
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Hi: As far as I know Turbo powered cars are unsuitable for towing! The fact that the turbo is only required for hard acceleration means the waist gate is closed most of the time...meaning the exhaust that drives it ( very hot stuff ) bypasses it!!! When towing a trailer the extra drag would cause the waist gate to remain open most of the time and could cause overheating/berring failure in the turbo...As far as I know Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
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Old 03-13-2007, 05:01 AM   #4
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What you can do, and what you ought to do are often two different things. As to whether or not your Miata can tow a trailer, I refer you to my avatar. It can. Whether it can do it safely, long term, under all conditions is another issue entirely.

In 1980, I towed a Scamp 13 with a 4 cyl Dodge Omni. I didn't do it long (only a few times) and it was harrowing towing it over the mountains in SoCal to Anza Borrego, but I did it. I'd never do it again. It wasn't rated to tow a roller skate. I couldn't find a hitch to fit it, and the guy who was willing to install a "generic" class I hitch told me I was nuts. Fortunately I was young and confident and wasn't bright enough to ask why.

Check your owner's manual to see what your Miata is actually rated at for towing. Tow ratings are based on many mysterious factors, the least of which (I suspect) is horsepower. Rear end gearing ratio, transmission, clutch size, suspension, weight distribution, and body/frame construction all have some part to play. Further, short wheelbases are not recommended for towing, and the shorter the wheelbase the less competent the vehicle is for towing.

All-in-all, I'd say let the Miata be a sports car and find something competent to tow with if you want to drag a trailer around.

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Old 03-13-2007, 07:06 AM   #5
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Old 03-13-2007, 09:15 AM   #6
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From the discussion so far, it would appear that "Insanity", or sanity is relative.
A high speed, one way trip...or the alternative!
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Old 03-13-2007, 11:33 AM   #7
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I'd never consider towing with the MX-5 but wish I could. I'm aware of some of the other factors involved, including size, wheelbase and brake/transmission concerns.

Speaking of that my wife's brother--a nice guy and great family man--wrecked the transmission on his van (Caravan if I recall) by using it to tow a boat. I gather it wouldn't have happened if he had the transmission cooler.

That brings up a question which may be naive:

Some post I came accross recently led me to think such a cooler is mainly required where the tow vehicle is an automatic. Is that correct? If so, it suggests that the same vehicle, if rated to tow a given number of pounds, would not need the cooler if it were a stick?
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Old 03-13-2007, 11:55 AM   #8
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<span style="font-family:Arial">"Some post I came accross recently led me to think such a cooler is mainly required where the tow vehicle is an automatic. Is that correct? If so, it suggests that the same vehicle, if rated to tow a given number of pounds, would not need the cooler if it were a stick?"</span>


Correct.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:03 PM   #9
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<span style="font-family:Arial">"Some post I came accross recently led me to think such a cooler is mainly required where the tow vehicle is an automatic. Is that correct? If so, it suggests that the same vehicle, if rated to tow a given number of pounds, would not need the cooler if it were a stick?"</span>
Correct.
I think you are right.I tow my unit with a stick shift and no trany cooler and no heating problems.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:18 PM   #10
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There is a large difference between producing very high engine output for the few seconds that it takes to reach highway speed, and the sustaining that output under the continuous load of towing. I would not expect a problem with the turbo itself in a modern sports car, but the engine's cooling and lubrication system would probably not keep up.

There was a link posted here to a top speed caravan towing attempt by BBC's Top Gear. They reached about 125 mph, but the race-ready tow car then blew up its multi-hundred-horsepower turbocharged engine. I suspect that the same car was quite reliable in race use.

Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see some of these combinations...
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Old 03-13-2007, 05:23 PM   #11
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Sorry, Alf, you've got the idea of a turbo completely backwards. They often work better when towing as extra load makes the turbo do more work, which improves efficiency. I'm not suggesting better mileage towing, but less of a drop when towing. Turbo gas engines make lovely towing power units because they give you the big torque at low-ish revs.

A boss of mine had an Audi S4, the (previous) turbo four-wheel-drive sports model, which was a near-perfect tow car - mountains of torque, more brakes than two cars would need, and a surprising amount of stability for a relatively small car. His wife complained a lot, as he felt obliged to show guys in fast cars he could out-drag them, with both a trailer on the back and a boat on the roof.....

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Old 03-13-2007, 05:37 PM   #12
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I do not think it is the torque but the weight. I think your vehicle needs to have the weight to hold things on the road. I once pulled a utility trailer with my Suzuki 4 door 4X4 Sidekick and when I came to the stop sign and applied the brakes, the weight of the trailer pushed me out into the traffic lane.

That Suzuki Sidekick had the torque, just not the weight to control the trailer.

Do not exceed the manufactures stated limits in the owners manual. Hurt someone by ignoring the manufactures limits and you may lose everything you have in the court case.
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:07 PM   #13
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I don't think a turbocharger fundamentally aids efficiency in a gasoline engine, but I do see how it can help by allowing operation at a lower engine speed for the same power, reducing wear and frictional losses. On the other hand, the slightly lower compression ratio required to accommodate the turbo means starting with a handicap compared to a non-supercharged engine.

Every implementation of the same technology is somewhat unique, so I'm sure there are great turbo gasoline tugs. Just don't expect a sports car engine to run at high output continuously, regardless of the technology.

Diesels and turbos are an entirely different matter... but I don't see a turbodiesel MX-5 or Mazda3 in the near future!
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:36 PM   #14
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That brings up a question which may be naive:

Some post I came accross recently led me to think such a cooler is mainly required where the tow vehicle is an automatic. Is that correct? If so, it suggests that the same vehicle, if rated to tow a given number of pounds, would not need the cooler if it were a stick?
Typically, a manual transmission has no cooling associated with it (auto transmissions are relatively delicate, as is their fluid, and produce a lot of heat when they are 'slipping' and not in lockup mode) because the components are robust and there's far less waste heat.

Because auto transmissions usually use the main radiator for primary cooling (look on the bottom back of the radiator and you will see the transmission fluid plumbing), there's also less cooling available for the engine. Auxilliary transmission coolers help to make up the difference.

The prime newbie-to-towing misconception is that towing is all about pulling power -- The grim reality is that one not only has to pull it, one has to be able to steer it and stop it -- Many motorcycles are powerful enough to pull one of our trailers up Pike's Peak, but likely would never get it back down in one piece...

Even with trailer brakes to handle the stopping part, the towing geometry of small cars is such that a sway situation caused by too much speed, rough road, imbalance or even a passing truck would have the trailer overpowering the car and flinging it into the ditch or the opposing traffic...
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:15 AM   #15
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Hi: I usually do most things better backwards ... except when the trailer is attached Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:03 PM   #16
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"All-in-all, I'd say let the Miata be a sports car and find something competent to tow with if you want to drag a trailer around".

Reminds me way back when I had a 1962 MG Midget sports car, I used to pull a 13' Glen-L water ski boat with a big Merc on it, fortunately you could see under the hull of the boat when towing.

Sure wouldn't want to tow with my wife's older MX-5 Miata, but we did do a 7,500 Km road trip a few years ago from Victoria, taking in Crater Lake, Reno, Fallon, Salt Lake City, Yellowstone, Jackson Hole, top down in sleet over the Highway to the Sun mostly camping with the occasional Motel/KOA cabana. Sure got a lot of looks setting up the tent and gear from the big rig owners. Now we can travel in real comfort.

Looking forward to a road trip with my Escape 17 and my just purchased 04 Pathfinder TV. We plan to head down to southern Utah, Grand Canyon next month and have already planned a month trip in November to the Baja.

Anyone towing with an 01-04 Pathfinder, hoping we won't need an equalizer.
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:54 AM   #17
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How 'bout my wife's Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 as a tow car?


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Unfortunately, we no longer have either the Burro nor the Mitsu... and for those inquiring minds who want to know, they were just parked like this... the Mitsu couldn't tow a little red wagon... despite it's massive horsepower!

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