Interesting experiment - Fiberglass RV


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Old 02-12-2008, 12:05 PM   #1
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This is interesting for European trailers:
http://towingstabilitystudies.co.uk/..._simulator.htm
and this too:
http://towingstabilitystudies.co.uk/...avansnake.html

How about NA-trailers?
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:40 PM   #2
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This is interesting for European trailers:
http://towingstabilitystudies.co.uk/..._simulator.htm
and this too:
http://towingstabilitystudies.co.uk/...avansnake.html

How about NA-trailers?
I have to admit that the Europeans seem to have (in my opinion) a more rational view of sway. Most American trailer RVers are so pro anti-sway bar that they make unnecessary attempts to belittle anyone who asks simple questions about it. Reminds me of the IPCC.
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:55 PM   #3
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I have to admit that the Europeans seem to have (in my opinion) a more rational view of sway. Most American trailer RVers are so pro anti-sway bar that they make unnecessary attempts to belittle anyone who asks simple questions about it. Reminds me of the IPCC.
Those of us that have been towing for years realize that if you NEED a sway bar there is something wrong with your rig!
A sway bar is a band aid to cover up a serious problem.
John
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:16 PM   #4
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A properly balanced trailer can still exhibit minor sway in certain conditions. Sway control can be value added. Many folks with a great deal of towing experience understand this. The fiber egg world combined is but a fraction of the towing universe, and not everyone has the same comfort threshold where sway is concerned.

Cheers,
-KB


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Those of us that have been towing for years realize that if you NEED a sway bar there is something wrong with your rig!
A sway bar is a band aid to cover up a serious problem.
John
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:57 PM   #5
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A properly balanced trailer can still exhibit minor sway in certain conditions. Sway control can be value added. Many folks with a great deal of towing experience understand this. The fiber egg world combined is but a fraction of the towing universe, and not everyone has the same comfort threshold where sway is concerned.

Cheers,
-KB
may I say that I don't think the little "wiggle in the fanny" you feel when a truck goes by you is the "sway" most people are talking about when addressing the need for an anti sway bar.. that's because there are two kinds of sway:

1) the immediately correcting and normal straightening of trailer after getting a little off-line as shown in the flash animation linked. This is what happens when the trailer is properly loaded.
2) Oscillating yaw sway. This type of sway cannot be easily corrected without an anti-sway bar because the inertia of the initiating "wiggle sway" can overwhelm the "immediately correcting and normal straightening of trailer after getting a little off-line". An incorrectly loaded trailer can kill you this way. An anti sway bar is very valuable here.

For #1 an anti-sway bar is of no value other than to cancel the fanny wiggle that is sometimes a good reminder to slow down.
For #2 a sway bar is an absolute must for safety.

I prefer never to miss-load to the point that #2 is necessary.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:24 PM   #6
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Umm, don't overlook the fact that once a friction sway bar slips, it takes equal force to bring the trailer back in line with the tow vehicle. That's why the Bandaids can be dangerous under slippery conditions or under an extreme yaw condition.

IMHO, the worse danger is that they can mask yaw sway and allow one to get going faster with worse results if something happens.

Anyone using a friction sway bar should know when to loosen or disconnect it and should also occasionally disconnect it for normal towing to see if it is masking a sway condition because one changed the loading.

The sway control incorporated in some WDHs is much better, IMHO.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:31 PM   #7
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How about NA-trailers?
Lex, check out this MFROG thread:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/in...howtopic=27936

which contains a link to a YouTube video about a GM anti-sway system. Also, there are some other links on that site to so interesting RV stuf.
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:15 PM   #8
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2) Oscillating yaw sway. This type of sway cannot be easily corrected without an anti-sway bar because the inertia of the initiating "wiggle sway" can overwhelm the "immediately correcting and normal straightening of trailer after getting a little off-line". An incorrectly loaded trailer can kill you this way. An anti sway bar is very valuable here.

For #2 a sway bar is an absolute must for safety.

I prefer never to miss-load to the point that #2 is necessary.
Looks like the operating words are "incorrectly loaded".

As I think of properly loaded trailers and anti-sway bars I can't help but wonder about the safety of using one vs not. With all the noise about anti-sway friction bars I've wondered if I needed to include one. The answer I came up is no.

Reasonings: An anti-sway bar simply creates a stiffer side to side connection between the TV and the trailer. The good points is that it's more difficult to put the trailer out of alignment when going in a straight line. The bad points it's more difficult to go around a corner. The tires instead of traveling behind want skid sideway, thus side loading the tire side walls. This probably is much problem other than increased tread wear when on dry pavement. However when it's wet or any other condition with less than ideal traction the tires could break loose. Now instead of providing a nice safe condition, the trailer is now a big weight on the end of a pendulum, which wants to take the rear of TV on ride side ways. That's probably not a good thing.

Here in the NW there's probably as much of the time with damp or wet roads as without. So if you follow instructions and remove the anti-sway bar in those conditions 50% or more of the time it's not attached. We also get on gravel roads from time to time. Gravel can be as bad as rain or snow even. The situations that can cause sway don't take a break when traction is less than ideal.

Therefore the best thing is to make sure you're trailer is always properly load balanced for towing and don't bother with the anti-sway bar.

JMHO.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:22 AM   #9
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Looks like the operating words are "incorrectly loaded".

As I think of properly loaded trailers and anti-sway bars I can't help but wonder about the safety of using one vs not. With all the noise about anti-sway friction bars I've wondered if I needed to include one. The answer I came up is no.

Reasonings: An anti-sway bar simply creates a stiffer side to side connection between the TV and the trailer. The good points is that it's more difficult to put the trailer out of alignment when going in a straight line. The bad points it's more difficult to go around a corner. The tires instead of traveling behind want skid sideway, thus side loading the tire side walls. This probably is much problem other than increased tread wear when on dry pavement. However when it's wet or any other condition with less than ideal traction the tires could break loose. Now instead of providing a nice safe condition, the trailer is now a big weight on the end of a pendulum, which wants to take the rear of TV on ride side ways. That's probably not a good thing.

Here in the NW there's probably as much of the time with damp or wet roads as without. So if you follow instructions and remove the anti-sway bar in those conditions 50% or more of the time it's not attached. We also get on gravel roads from time to time. Gravel can be as bad as rain or snow even. The situations that can cause sway don't take a break when traction is less than ideal.

Therefore the best thing is to make sure you're trailer is always properly load balanced for towing and don't bother with the anti-sway bar.

JMHO.
Just wonderring has anyone actually dne a weight check on their trailers to see if the weight is equal from side to side? It seems to me that with the fridge and stove on the passenger side of my scamp that tire always appears to be low when it is not. Do the manufacturers make an effort to balance from side to side?
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:18 PM   #10
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Dan, many folks have done individual wheel weights, and the "appliance" side is almost universally two hundred or so pounds heavier than the non-appliance side, particularly in Scamp 16s where the entire galley is typically on one side of the trailer. That varies, of course, from trailer to trailer. The up side is that the closet can be filled with clothing items or whatever to make up some of the imbalance.

The larger the trailer, the more opportunity there is to balance the weight by the placement of tanks, bath, refrigerator on one side, stove, sink, and oven on the other, etc. etc. etc.

Roger
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Old 02-14-2008, 06:22 PM   #11
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I've done side-to-side checks and they were OK. I presume that was because my white-water tank is on opposite side from kitchen and battery is in the middle.

It was easy to check all kinds of weight combinations when WA left the weight stations on when not in use and you could read the scale from outside.

My truck, however, was not equal because the 30 gallon fuel tank AND the driver were on one side...
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Old 02-14-2008, 06:31 PM   #12
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I've done side-to-side checks and they were OK. I presume that was because my white-water tank is on opposite side from kitchen and battery is in the middle.

It was easy to check all kinds of weight combinations when WA left the weight stations on when not in use and you could read the scale from outside.

My truck, however, was not equal because the 30 gallon fuel tank AND the driver were on one side...
I'm afraid to weigh each wheel now.
Not only is my galley on the right side so is the 20 gallon water tank and so is the the storage closet and so is the second battery and so is the microwave and so is my TV and so is.....





I am now afraid

I guess I could leave the black water tank full to compensate




ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Old 02-15-2008, 04:29 PM   #13
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I'm afraid to weigh each wheel now.

I am now afraid

I guess I could leave the black water tank full to compensate
Don't be afraid -- Do a paper exercise to estimate the front-back and side-side weight distributions and then run the simulator to see various effects. It should give you an indication as to whether you are in trouble or not and will demonstrate safe vs unsafe speeds.
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:35 PM   #14
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That's a lot of fun!

I wasn't able to get either link to run at work but both are aces at home.

The main thing I appreciate is how it separates out what they called yaw inertia from the simple relative hitch weight which is all I recall people talking about much. The second site I found very informative personally.


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