Lil Snoozy has closed shop

[NW Cat Owner]

Wow, so sorry to hear about the folks losing their deposit money. I wasn't really aware of this company until recently and their deposit requirements and wait times and all that. Completely sucks (fill in with your own word choice).


Looks like some of you need to change your profile information.


If anyone mailed a deposit, maybe something can be done about mail fraud.


Although since there isn't any funds to collect that could be rather pointless.


Yeah, I wouldn't expect to see a dime of your deposits. Great to hear the customer owned items are elsewhere and might be returned to you (at your cost, I'm sure).


Somebody mentioned how the payment method wasn't what he expected for Scamps and Casitas. I'm wondering what that meant. I'm only familiar with how it worked for our Escape. I just went to both the Casita and Scamp websites but didn't find any information on deposits and payment schedule. Heck, couldn't even find prices! Which is really wacky, if you ask me. I'd like to know what sort of prices I'd be looking at before I seriously considered purchasing. Bigfoot doesn't either, but I guess that's cuz they go through dealers. Least with Escape you know the base price right off the bat.


Anyway, bummer to everyone that's losing wads of money.

[jgilliam1955]

Originally Posted by NW Cat Owner

Wow, so sorry to hear about the folks losing their deposit money. I wasn't really aware of this company until recently and their deposit requirements and wait times and all that. Completely sucks (fill in with your own word choice).


Looks like some of you need to change your profile information.


If anyone mailed a deposit, maybe something can be done about mail fraud.


Although since there isn't any funds to collect that could be rather pointless.


Yeah, I wouldn't expect to see a dime of your deposits. Great to hear the customer owned items are elsewhere and might be returned to you (at your cost, I'm sure).


Somebody mentioned how the payment method wasn't what he expected for Scamps and Casitas. I'm wondering what that meant. I'm only familiar with how it worked for our Escape. I just went to both the Casita and Scamp websites but didn't find any information on deposits and payment schedule. Heck, couldn't even find prices! Which is really wacky, if you ask me. I'd like to know what sort of prices I'd be looking at before I seriously considered purchasing. Bigfoot doesn't either, but I guess that's cuz they go through dealers. Least with Escape you know the base price right off the bat.


Anyway, bummer to everyone that's losing wads of money.

Hello. We ordered a Casita over the phone. I ordered it this week and it will be completed May 6th. They had 3 on the lot I could purchase that day. We decided to order one with all the options except a microwave. You deposit $2000. Pay in full when you pick it up. Base price if The Liberty was $20,000. With everything else came to $24,000. They are so easy to deal with. And to get it so soon after ordering....wow! Ask for Jonathan.
We had waited 19 months for the Snoozy.

[Bernese Bunch]

Originally Posted by jgilliam1955

Hello. We ordered a Casita over the phone. I ordered it this week and it will be completed May 6th. They had 3 on the lot I could purchase that day. We decided to order one with all the options except a microwave. You deposit $2000. Pay in full when you pick it up. Base price if The Liberty was $20,000. With everything else came to $24,000. They are so easy to deal with. And to get it so soon after ordering....wow! Ask for Jonathan.
We had waited 19 months for the Snoozy.

Hi, Jack! I called Casita right after I saw your post and am waiting to hear from them with an owner in my area. I may wait to see how the Snoozy settlement goes before I commit. So nice that you will have your new trailer so quickly.

[LyleB]

Scamp, as of last year, required a $500 deposit when you place the order. Nothing more is required until you pick up the trailer. Plus, their policy, for many years, has been you get a full refund if you cancel prior to them starting production of your trailer, and they call you when they are getting close to starting. Really, couldn't ask for anything better.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by LyleB

Scamp, as of last year, required a $500 deposit when you place the order. Nothing more is required until you pick up the trailer. Plus, their policy, for many years, has been you get a full refund if you cancel prior to them starting production of your trailer, and they call you when they are getting close to starting. Really, couldn't ask for anything better.

Very generous! Escape has a non-refundable deposit, which did make us really think when we placed our order. We had to wait almost a year, which I thought was a crazy amount of time. We did sweat big time over that, wondering if they would go out of business.



I remember how excited we were as it got closer to the production time and all that. Yet another reason this is so crappy. All that anticipation and nothing in the end for the Lil Snoozy never-to-be-owners. I know losing that 10 thou would really hurt us.

[jgilliam1955]

This person is trying to get information. If you know anything call them or contact them. They can't find any court filings showing a Bankruptcy.
https://rvdailyreport.com/industry/s...y-closes-shop/

Greg Gerber | RV Daily Report

[jgilliam1955]

Originally Posted by Bernese Bunch

Hi, Jack! I called Casita right after I saw your post and am waiting to hear from them with an owner in my area. I may wait to see how the Snoozy settlement goes before I commit. So nice that you will have your new trailer so quickly.

Thank you Bernese. We thought like that to but got thinking it may be years before it's settled, plus I think everything is gone. I retire next year, my lovely wife retired 3 years ago. We can't afford to wait. While we have our health, it is time to follow our dream.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by jgilliam1955

...
https://rvdailyreport.com/industry/s...y-closes-shop/

Greg Gerber | RV Daily Report

Interesting to read the reader's comments to this story at that site.

This poster's claim is unconfirmed but I have no reason to doubt that it is true:

David
March 8, 2019 at 9:07 am
Unfortunately I was one of the three employees left without a job the gave us a 24 hour notice we were loosing our jobs I was the lead build tech on these beautiful campers what a solid product due to very poor ownership and money management all these customers have been ripped off and 3 employees with no jobs with no care to Richard Mickle at all

[Bernese Bunch]

Originally Posted by jgilliam1955

Thank you Bernese. We thought like that to but got thinking it may be years before it's settled, plus I think everything is gone. I retire next year, my lovely wife retired 3 years ago. We can't afford to wait. While we have our health, it is time to follow our dream.

You make a very good point! I'll reconsider my plan. I may follow in your path with the Casita. Just waiting to see one in person, Thanks

[Air Doug]

Unemployment in his area is apparently low and he also had problems keeping reliable labor in the shop. As delivery times kept getting extended, his cash flow was hurt and he had ongoing costs for rent, pay for Amy, etc. that he fell behind on. Eventually the whole thing snowballed and orders for new Snoozys slowed down because delivery was so long. It all sounded believable to me.

First of all, I feel really bad for all of the folks holding worthless order forms. I can't begin to imagine how much worse you all feel. I'm sorry.

I want to add a few observations that I haven't seen in this thread yet.

I think the above quote is plausible. When we picked up our Snoozy in August 2017, I had the chance to talk to Richard's dad in the shop. He said he was helping out by trying to improve the business side of the operation and speed up production. He said they had no problem with demand. The key problems he mentioned were getting reliable deliveries from quality suppliers and keeping skilled labor in a tight market. The cabinetry maker was new(ish) at the time and it had set them back when they changed suppliers. The second was finding skilled workers who would stay on. My personal observation of the construction of the Snoozy is that there would be a significant learning curve for a new worker and the loss of a skilled worker could really set them back. The vast majority of the work on our Snoozy is high quality but I observe that some of the minor details are less so, e.g. rear running light screwed on crooked. That indicated to me that at least one of the fabricators was still in training. In a tight labor market, they had to manage as best they could.

The second problem I saw was that Richard couldn't say no to custom requests. When we were waiting for ours to be built, we kept getting delayed and delayed. Amy would explain for weeks that ours was next, but they had to finish the one before ours first. Finally she mentioned that there were a lot of custom changes and that it was taking far longer than expected to finish it. I think I read others mentioning how happy they were with Snoozy for accommodating their custom requests.

A final observation is that Richard was quite willing to spend as much time as needed to answer questions when we took delivery. I was aware that our questions kept him from building. I can imagine that as the order list got longer and longer, more and more time could have been spent by Richard just managing visitors and questions from an ever-lengthening list of customers.

I don't know what happened but the above maybe sheds a little more light.

[jgilliam1955]

Originally Posted by Air Doug

First of all, I feel really bad for all of the folks holding worthless order forms. I can't begin to imagine how much worse you all feel. I'm sorry.

I want to add a few observations that I haven't seen in this thread yet.

I think the above quote is plausible. When we picked up our Snoozy in August 2017, I had the chance to talk to Richard's dad in the shop. He said he was helping out by trying to improve the business side of the operation and speed up production. He said they had no problem with demand. The key problems he mentioned were getting reliable deliveries from quality suppliers and keeping skilled labor in a tight market. The cabinetry maker was new(ish) at the time and it had set them back when they changed suppliers. The second was finding skilled workers who would stay on. My personal observation of the construction of the Snoozy is that there would be a significant learning curve for a new worker and the loss of a skilled worker could really set them back. The vast majority of the work on our Snoozy is high quality but I observe that some of the minor details are less so, e.g. rear running light screwed on crooked. That indicated to me that at least one of the fabricators was still in training. In a tight labor market, they had to manage as best they could.

The second problem I saw was that Richard couldn't say no to custom requests. When we were waiting for ours to be built, we kept getting delayed and delayed. Amy would explain for weeks that ours was next, but they had to finish the one before ours first. Finally she mentioned that there were a lot of custom changes and that it was taking far longer than expected to finish it. I think I read others mentioning how happy they were with Snoozy for accommodating their custom requests.

A final observation is that Richard was quite willing to spend as much time as needed to answer questions when we took delivery. I was aware that our questions kept him from building. I can imagine that as the order list got longer and longer, more and more time could have been spent by Richard just managing visitors and questions from an ever-lengthening list of customers.

I don't know what happened but the above maybe sheds a little more light.

That's is a very good observation about business. When we ordered ours Aug 2017 Amy mentioned sometimes the supplier would stop building Snoozy shells, because his business got busier. 1 or 2 months may go by before we could get more shells. I thought then we were willing to wait because it was such a good product.
Us folks that were waiting were starting to think, hope I get mine before he goes under.

[Air Doug]

We also were a little concerned about putting down such a large deposit but decided that we were willing to risk losing it. Ordered late November 2016.
Then the March delivery turned into May, with the TruckFridge sitting in their shop since February. May turned into June... A little concerned turned into a lot concerned. Ours was mostly done by late July, picked up in August with the final hull seam caulking done the night before after hours.

[jgilliam1955]

As you know we lost $10,000 to Snoozy also, but as stated we ordered a Casita Liberty. I found this video today showing the instructions for picking up the Casita. Fast forward to the inside. They do not show this plan on the website. Some of you may find this helpful, you were interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyIed1l09Mc&t=2193s

[Bernese Bunch]

Originally Posted by jgilliam1955

As you know we lost $10,000 to Snoozy also, but as stated we ordered a Casita Liberty. I found this video today showing the instructions for picking up the Casita. Fast forward to the inside. They do not show this plan on the website. Some of you may find this helpful, you were interested.

Thanks, Jack. Very informational, for me.

[thrifty bill]

First, again, I am so sorry for all the people that have lost a lot of money waiting for their dream trailer. I hope they get something back once this is all sorted out.


A business plan based on getting shells from a boat manufacturer when he has spare capacity is a risky plan. Just in time, or worse, not nearly in time, makes is worse. Having a backlog yet nothing to build is tempting disaster.

One can only wonder how many orders were lost due to the extreme lead times. Between the huge downpayment and super long lead times, I looked elsewhere.

Looks like a very nice trailer with a very poor business plan. Outsourcing key parts like the frame and body can work, but you will need reliable suppliers. Meanwhile, all of your competition makes their own shells, so you are at competitive disadvantage. If you go the route of having multiple shell providers, then that means likely multiple molds, which is an additional cost. Having no shells to build, you either pay employees with no work, or you lay them off. In today's economy, hard to get those employees back later. Really needed to be at least a couple of shells ahead of production minimum. Just in time manufacturing requires super reliable suppliers, particularly for custom parts, otherwise it doesn't work.

I have to wonder what manufacturing experience Richard had.

1 or 2 months without a shell? Disaster.

I managed a factory in South Carolina for many years. Recruiting and retaining personnel was always a challenge. Workers had the choice of major companies with top notch benefits and pay. We lost several to BMW for example. You would lose one, then another would join their buddy, and off they went!

[Bernese Bunch]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

First, again, I am so sorry for all the people that have lost a lot of money waiting for their dream trailer. I hope they get something back once this is all sorted out.


A business plan based on getting shells from a boat manufacturer when he has spare capacity is a risky plan. Just in time, or worse, not nearly in time, makes is worse. Having a backlog yet nothing to build is tempting disaster.

One can only wonder how many orders were lost due to the extreme lead times. Between the huge downpayment and super long lead times, I looked elsewhere.

Looks like a very nice trailer with a very poor business plan. Outsourcing key parts like the frame and body can work, but you will need reliable suppliers. Meanwhile, all of your competition makes their own shells, so you are at competitive disadvantage. If you go the route of having multiple shell providers, then that means likely multiple molds, which is an additional cost. Having no shells to build, you either pay employees with no work, or you lay them off. In today's economy, hard to get those employees back later. Really needed to be at least a couple of shells ahead of production minimum. Just in time manufacturing requires super reliable suppliers, particularly for custom parts, otherwise it doesn't work.

I have to wonder what manufacturing experience Richard had.

1 or 2 months without a shell? Disaster.

I managed a factory in South Carolina for many years. Recruiting and retaining personnel was always a challenge. Workers had the choice of major companies with top notch benefits and pay. We lost several to BMW for example. You would lose one, then another would join their buddy, and off they went!

Probably would have been smart for them to hire a consultant and, perhaps, relocate where there was a better pool of employees. He had the demand but lacked the ability to fulfill. Water over the bridge.

[Mike Magee]

Someone pulled up to me while I was parked with my Hauley today and said, "That's a cool trailer, what kind is it?" I used to give folks like that a good report and some info on how to find the company. This time I replied, "It doesn't matter, they just went out of business."

[jgilliam1955]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Someone pulled up to me while I was parked with my Hauley today and said, "That's a cool trailer, what kind is it?" I used to give folks like that a good report and some info on how to find the company. This time I replied, "It doesn't matter, they just went out of business."

Good reply. We don't even want to see one any longer. It's like not wanting to see the face of someone who did you wrong.

[steve dunham]

Doesn’t it seem strange , that in the largest boom period for RV manufacturers we are loosing FG trailer manufacturers on a regular basis . Looking at the list I saw this morning there are 8 fiberglass trailers manufacturers still in business . If you want a modestly priced new FG trailer you basically have two choices , Scamp and Casita .
When the economy tanks again I can see the list of 8 rapidly shrinking
If you can’t make it in the good times, it’s really hard to make it in the bad .
Someday our only choice may be a fiberglass trailer made by Forest River !!

[ZachO]

Boy I hope not.

Not that I know anything about business, but I'm beginning to see more and more as I get experienced enough to understand, that obviously you need to know how to run a business. And it's not a simple thing. You can jump into the best market on earth and have instant customers but if you don't manage it right you can still implode.