Need advice on propane heaters

[Ruth G]

Should I permanently install a propane heater in my 2006 16 foot scamp? I can buy a new one from Scamp for about $400, but would still need to pay someone to install it? It's suburban nt-12se furnace.

I have been reading all the recent posts about heaters. I miss having a heater. I could get a portable one for much cheaper, but then have to leave windows open and worry about carbon monoxide buildup.

I would like to boondock more. It can get cold in the spring or fall, and having heat would be nice. If I put in a built in one, how much do I really have to worry about using up the battery? Is the suburban a good one, or should I look at another brand?

It would be so much easier to just use electric heaters, but we liKe to boondock, especially because of four dogs.

Thanks,

Ruth

[cpaharley2008]

I'd get the Atwood Everest #8012 with the lowest amp hour draw available today, 2 a/h.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I'd get the Atwood Everest #8012 with the the lowest amp hour draw available today, 2 a/h.

The current used by the 8012 is about 2 amps (2A)... not "amp hour" or a/h (which would mean "amps per hour").

I agree that this Atwood is a good choice. It has lower-power fan because it is not for use with ducted systems; since our trailers typically use furnaces without ducting, there's no need for the higher power consumption (and more fan noise) of furnaces intended for use with ducting. I remember the 8012 spec at 1.8 A, but even if it is then "2" is close enough.

[Francesca Knowles]

I'm a catalytic heater user so have no personal experience in this department, but my observation as a member of several forums is that there's a general consensus that furnaces are indeed major limiters of boondocking time due to power draw from the battery. Most users report about three days of battery life in heating season, depending on usage of course, and on other demands in the system.

As Jim said, some furnaces are a little better than others, draw wise- the model you're looking at differs from the one he suggested by about 1 amp hr.

Francesca

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The current used by the 8012 is about 2 amps (2A)... no "h" or "hours" involved.

I agree that this Atwood is a good choice. It has lower-power fan because it is not for use with ducted systems; since our trailers typically use furnaces without ducting, there's no need for the higher power consumption (and more fan noise) of furnaces intended for use with ducting. I remember the 8012 spec at 1.8 A, but even if it is then "2" is close enough.

When a 12v " 2 amp draw" or "current used" item is listed, that means it takes 2 amps per hour to keep it operating, thus amp hour is an indicator when calculating your battery reserve which is measured in amp hours.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

I'm a catalytic heater user so have no personal experience in this department, but my observation as a member of several forums is that there's a general consensus that furnaces are indeed major limiters of boondocking time due to power draw from the battery. Most users report about three days of battery life in heating season, depending on usage of course, and on other demands in the system.

As Jim said, some furnaces are a little better than others, draw wise- the model you're looking at differs from the one he suggested by about 1 amp hr.

Francesca

Which calculates to a 33% savings or you could say the other model draws 50% more than the Atwood.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

When a 12v " 2 amp draw" or "current used" item is listed, that means it takes 2 amps per hour to keep it operating, thus amp hour is an indicator when calculating your battery reserve which is measured in amp hours.

Jim, please just leave that "per hour" out, and you would have it just right! The ampere (or just amp) is a rate unit - it already has the element of time in it. That's all I was suggesting - just use the units of measure of properly, to avoid confusing the information.

The corrected version of Jim's post would be:

When a 12v " 2 amp draw" or "current used" item is listed, that means it takes 2 amps to keep it operating, thus amp-hour is an indicator when calculating your battery reserve which is measured in amp-hours.

This problem comes up routinely, and greatly increases confusion compared to simply using the units of measure properly.

[cpaharley2008]

I guess my question would be, if the heater operated for 30 minutes avery hour, am I drawing 1 amp or 2 amps from my battery reserve every hour?

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The corrected version of Jim's post would be:

When a 12v " 2 amp draw" or "current used" item is listed, that means it takes 2 amps to keep it operating, thus amp-hour is an indicator when calculating your battery reserve which is measured in amp-hours.

This problem comes up routinely, and greatly increases confusion compared to simply using the units of measure properly.

"that means 2 amps to keep it operating" but for how long???? clear as a bell to me now as to what the furnace he is recommened will use in a hour of use. Not!

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I guess my question would be, if the heater operated for 30 minutes avery hour, am I drawing 1 amp or 2 amps from my battery reserve every hour?

2 amps for a half hour uses 1 amp-hour of power from the battery.

[cpaharley2008]

That is what I thought and if it ran for an hour, 2 amps. So when calculating your battery needs you need to time as well as draw. either way, I think Brian and I were saying the same thing, you say tomato and I say tomato

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

That is what I thought and if it ran for an hour, 2 amps. So when calculating your battery needs you need to time as well as draw.

Yes, it is rate x time. Like MPH x hours = distance.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

2 amps for a half hour uses 1 amp-hour of power from the battery.

Thank you Tom for a much simpler explanation for those of use who are electrically challenged & little interest in changing that.

[rabbit]

Slightly off center of topic, I'd like to have a repair manual or even a parts schematic for an Atwood 8012-11. Went up, up and away in a ballon and to the top of Everest and in my Burro but I can't find information on this furnace. The Atwood site PDF containing furnace info stop at p. 27 but according to its index the 8000 series info starts on p. 39. Some fun! Mine is out in the aisle right now. I'm going to blow out the squirrel cage to see if it's not throwing the sail switch but I may have to take to dealer. Chance to clean up Scotchlokbuttcon hell in there; apparently been out before for its annual checkup which is encouraging, I think? Atwood has the nerve to state that they can be serviced in place. Perhaps they mean a burner diagnostic from the front? A ferret with a stubby would have trouble servicing it in situ.

jack

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Ruth G

I have been reading all the recent posts about heaters. I miss having a heater. I could get a portable one for much cheaper, but then have to leave windows open and worry about carbon monoxide buildup.

Even if you purchase a permanent, built in propane heater.. you will still need to have ventilation and carbon monoxide can still be a concern.

Be safe!

[cpaharley2008]

Jack,
I have an #8012 in my Escape, I'll let you know when I go get the manual and tell you what is in it. Maybe after the game...

[rabbit]

Say, that would be great, Jim. Need the spark gap on the electrode or igniter. I think it's 3/16 or 1/4". I'd sure like to have a copy. Absolutely n need to look today--the holy of holies.

jack

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Thank you Tom for a much simpler explanation for those of use who are electrically challenged & little interest in changing that.

Tom is correct, and it is simple because it uses the correct units. Say the same thing with random extra words (such as "hour") in it and it makes less sense.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

That is what I thought and if it ran for an hour, 2 amps.

No, the idea is right but the words are wrong. See Tom's correct version.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I think Brian and I were saying the same thing, you say tomato and I say tomato

More like I say tomato and you say cherry, but I somehow figure out that you really mean tomato.

[Glenn Baglo]

As in, my boat travels at 6 knots, not 6 knots per hour.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Even if you purchase a permanent, built in propane heater.. you will still need to have ventilation and carbon monoxide can still be a concern.

Yes, you still need some ventilation with a furnace, but not enough to get rid of the propane combustion products... because they are not produced in the trailer interior. It's still a concern, but a vastly smaller concern.

The ventilation difference is not temporary/portable versus permanent/built-in; it is an unvented burner in the interior versus a furnace with a heat exchanger between the combustion and the interior air. Of course, while you can get a permanently mounted unvented heater (same air quality risks as any unvented propane heater), it's tough to find a portable heater with vents to the outside!