New FGRV in Europe

[jack maloney]

Check this out: http://www.caravandeals.co.uk/voyager_vector.asp

But sit down before you look at the price tag - about $45,000 US!

[Gail Shook]

That 45,000 USD price tage is enough to make me cry. It is a beauty but I would have to sell my home to buy it. YIKES!

Gail

[Chester Taje]

Its not on my pocket book.Looks like a bullet train.

[Martin D]

Wow, I really like it. Makes you wonder where the American RV manfacturers have been and where they are going. Except for Scamp and Casita and Bigfoot (Canadian) there is virtually no real innovation in this entire industry. Instead of wood framing they use aluminum sticks and those leaking rubber roofs and more seams and panels on the basic box style than you can count - all potential problems. With fuel costs going thru the roof you would think there would be a few companies willing to build a product similiar to this in the USA instead of the same old tired stuff.. Martin

[jack maloney]

With all due respect, Martin, the only real innovation in molded FGRVs was done decades ago with the first Bolers. Since then it has just been variations on a superb theme. Our fiberglass eggs are way ahead of the general RV marketplace, but certainly nothing new.

[Gina D.]

Tho the European trailers are very elegant, and I would actually LOVE to have one, I do have to question if they are "camping" trailers.

I have no qualms about plopping in my Burro with muddy boots and rain soaked clothes etc. These mansions on wheels would make me squeemish about doing something like that.

Now, "RVing", I could easily see.. using it as a home away from home (Or as a regular home) would be nice.

I must admit that on my recent trip with all the horrid weather that kept me inside almost 24/7 that I would have liked a little more room and modern comforts.

But then again.. my whole rig is paid for

[Ken James]

Wow, I really like it. Makes you wonder where the American RV manfacturers have been and where they are going. Except for Scamp and Casita and Bigfoot (Canadian) there is virtually no real innovation in this entire industry. Instead of wood framing they use aluminum sticks and those leaking rubber roofs and more seams and panels on the basic box style than you can count - all potential problems. With fuel costs going thru the roof you would think there would be a few companies willing to build a product similiar to this in the USA instead of the same old tired stuff.. Martin

I agree Martin. Boler brought us the fiberglass rv and what followed were merely variations upon that theme. I think it is time some out-of-the-box manufacturers brought us updated ideas. I would like to see the interior from the Soykar popped into something like this unit we are talking about here. Wow! Would that be a trailer!

There must be a whole lot larger margin of profit in the huge behemoths that plug up the RV lots. They sell gadgets, bells and whistles, I'm afraid. I pity the innocent older retiree walking in to buy a rig to go see Denali in Alaska. You see acres of these monsters up there. So many of these uninformed society successes truly do not know they have an alternative. Unless they had some experience from the camping days with their own family they are ripe to be robbed by an unscrupulous salesperson.

Maybe the rising oil prices will bring North America to it's senses.

[Roger H]

Ken... it's yes and no on the retirees being "robbed". The behemoths bring many things to many people. They are not "camping" as most of us would consider it, but many if not most of the folks who buy them aren't interested in "camping". They want to travel in comfort and take "home" with them. They're not interested at all in a minimalist lifestyle, regardless of the cost.

Frankly, MY Scamp isn't a minimalist trailer and I found out through the succession of FG trailers I had that I wasn't interested in being a minimalist any more (although I have been in the past and was for many, many years), although I don't have the need for great expanses of space when I use my Scamp. And, sometimes I really enjoy the space that my Airstream has, especially for an extended stay. I've full-timed in a 23' Airstream and found it to be just a little small for me. My Scamp 16' gets a little close for me after a week in it by myself. I could do it, but I confess that I enjoy the space inside my 34' Airstream for extended stays, especially with my family along.

Quite frankly, I believe that many of the folks who have the big mohos and way-expensive top of the line trailers wouldn't camp if they didn't have them. I'd guess that many of the consumers of the big mohos with all the bells and whistles would never consider travelling with anything smaller or with fewer bells and whistles. Those choices are out there, and readily available, but folks who buy the big mohos don't choose them. That style of travelling just has different goals from what many of us hold.

Rog

[Roger H]

Wow, I really like it. Makes you wonder where the American RV manfacturers have been and where they are going. Except for Scamp and Casita and Bigfoot (Canadian) there is virtually no real innovation in this entire industry. Instead of wood framing they use aluminum sticks and those leaking rubber roofs and more seams and panels on the basic box style than you can count - all potential problems. With fuel costs going thru the roof you would think there would be a few companies willing to build a product similiar to this in the USA instead of the same old tired stuff.. Martin

Innovation costs money, Martin. While folks continue to buy white-box trailers to replace their aging and failing white-box trailers, and RV manufacturers are making a tidy profit with their current offerings, there isn't much reason for them to invest in innovation.

The last brush that the RV industry had with innovation was from Bonair in Canada with the Oxygen. As large as Bonair was, the engineering and technical aspects of building the Oxygen took so much time, energy, and resources from the parent corporation that they killed their dealer network by not supporting them, which subsequently apparently killed the company AND the Oxygen.

See: Oxygen affidavit for the story...

I'm sure those things don't go unnoticed in the RV industry.

When the market for white-boxes gets saturated, and they don't sell well any more, then the RV manufacturers will have to find a new product to separate those folks who have white-box units from their new hard-earned money. That's how innovation happens here.

Roger

[Donna D.]

The demise of the Bonair Oxygen was very sad. We've got four members on FiberglassRV who are owners. Norman and Jean the most active on the forums.

A couple of quotes from the affidavit:

Bonair is the only manufacturer of recreational vehicles in the Province of Quebec (one of the largest consumer markets for recreational vehicles in Canada).

Bonair’s specialty is manufacturing fold-down campers. However, Bonair spent the last
two years prior to its acquisition by Peak Group in developing a lightweight fibreglass
travel trailer known as “The Oxygen”. This product proved to be too heavy and too
expensive. During fiscal 2000 and 2001, Bonair did not design or introduce to the market
even a single new product, as it focused its efforts completely on the Oxygen product
line. This all-out focus on Oxygen caused immense harm to the relationship between
Bonair and its dealer network, resulting in the Bonair dealer network shrinking in size as
R.V. dealers started to lose faith in the organization.

The recreational vehicle industry in North America is well established and dates back to
the 1920’s. However, the present state of the industry is fragmented. The recreational
vehicle industry has not followed the consolidation trend of the 1990’s which affected
most manufacturing sectors.
In North America, there are currently over 300
manufacturers of trailers and motorhomes (not including the many small manufacturers
who custom-build a few units each year). This fragmentation is in direct contrast to the
North American automotive industry, which has consolidated into a few major
manufacturers.

Sigh

[Roger H]

And this from the English forums page Tom Trostel found...

Freedom Caravans

Roger

[jack maloney]

Roger: that rig looks suspiciously like a sticky with flat FG panels.

[Roger H]

I thought it looked suspiciously like a rebadged Cadet!

Roger

[Per Walthinsen]

Not to be snide or anything, but the language used to describe it is a bit of a jolt to this West Coast person: the "Traumatic" heater (oops, I think I misread that), the "cassette" toilet (actually I'd rather have an 8-track model), and the "loo" (much better than "head" in my opinion). I've got to read this forum more often.

[Roger H]

Ok... Per... since you admitted it... I had to read the name of the heater twice too!

Roger

[John McMillin]

The genius of this big white banana comes through in the specs. That's a 21 footer weighing only 3300 lbs? So few kilograms, for so many pounds (never mind dollars, because we won't have the opportunity). And that weight, no more than some well-equipped 16-er Scamps or Casitas, includes double axles. I'm impressed.

[Brian B-P]

Per, I thought your cassette/8-track thing was hilarious, but you're dating yourself: some of those young people haven't heard of 8-track tapes!

For those who don't already know, "cassette toilet" is not a regional term; the term is widely used, but it is for a type of equipment which is not common in North America. Check out the page from Thetford if you're curious.

[BOBSMITH]

I quite like it.

It does really remind me of The Oxygen in design. I was not aware that The Oxygen was "too heavy". How much did they weigh?

My co-worker, who talked me into buying a Casita, saw an Oxygen at the campground at Myrtle Beach State Park about a year ago. He wanted to look inside, but he never saw the owners around.

[Loren G. Hedahl]

That Vector does look nice, but not nice enough for the price. From what I know about the pricing over there, it is the VAT (value added tax) that is added on to each part during each point of manufacture and assembly that causes the high cost. The social reforms and entitlements of that area demand this type of taxation.

One way of getting around some of this, I've been told, is to purchase from another country, say Portugal. I have not followed up on this, so it may be only hear-say.

On the other hand, why not take a little old Scamp, gut it, and have some yacht builder provide a new interior. It may not cost as much as you think. He may love such a project to add to his portfolio. It may also be a she, or a he and she.

For me, I like simple and functional. I don't like being in bondage to my possessions. I like to use it, put it away, forget about it, then take it back out for use again with a minimum of fuss.

I'm not sure these European units fit that functionality very well.

Years ago, there was a small trailer called a Sprite, made in England that looked very simple and functional. It was perhaps 14 or 15 feet, very light and seemingly well constructed, possibly fiberglass over a frame. Last one I saw was up on Vancouver, B.C., parked for the afternoon along the beach park. It was still in very acceptable shape. It also had that European elegance at first glance.

[norman and jean mulloy]

Our Oxygen is 2,000 to 2,200 lbs dry wt.
jean