New Tesla Battery (PowerWall)

[Glenn Baglo]

When our daughter moved in with her boy friend, our gas and electric bills dropped significantly.

[honda03842]

[QUOTE=Carol H;519916]Possible reasons for the differences.

How many people are living in the home? What is the square footage of the home? In 2010 the average Canadian home was 1950 sq feet. In the USA in 2009 it was 2169 sq. feet. The average Canadian family was 2.9 based on the last census. The more people in the house the more hot water that is used for showers & dishwasher which will run daily, as will the washer and dryer. Its also good bet you will find more electronics running in a home with 3 people living in it than you will with 1, its tough to get 3 people to agree on what to watch if you only have one TV ;-) As well there is the cost of heating an additional bedroom or two on a cold winters night.

Good points Carol...

Definitely hard to compare people's usage. I was just thinking about our $75 monthly bill. When we're traveling we typically do laundry once a week using two washers and two dryers. On average it's $6 a week or $24 a month. It males me realize that the $75 isn't that bad.

As well this year I ran the kitchen in our Escapee park and Ginny did the kitchen laundry at least once a week for the kitchen.

[Carol H]

Ok Folks before I get another PM - YES I am well aware that the way to do a calculation from the gas usage to electrical usage for side by side comparison is far more complicated!

I was simple attempting to point out that one needs to look at ALL your power consumption regardless of the resources used to generate it or where you are consuming it.

[jcstanley]

You have all missed the POINT !!! The Tesla battery would work for me , because I live minimaly . Most of you just couldn't do this . Generally people are SPOILED , and have no idea how to rain in their desires . You don't need a new car every 3years , you don't need a 3000 sq. ft. house . you don't need to do laundry every day , you don,t need A/C . Think about saving the planet and not about living in luxury .

[honda03842]

John,

I consider living in a 92 square foot Scamp 16 for 230 days a year living pretty minimally. We are entering our 15th years.

I don't do it to save the planet but to may be save myself. The planet will survive just fine as it has for a few billion years.

I often think human ego suggests that we're in charge of the earth, I'm afraid it's not so. Nature can create chaos in a day.

[RogerDat]

Norm is correct the planet will continue, long after humans have probably vanished. However the quality of the earth we inhabit for the time humans (as we are now) is sort of up to us as a species.

We have all probably been at a campground at one time or another that was used too hard or not maintained well enough to balance the use it sustained. Or just had some campers that did not think on the consequence of their actions. Humans as a species have a global reach and impact.

The scope and purpose of solar and battery in camping is different than in household use. Camping the battery and solar is expected to run everything all the time. Or we do without or fire up a generator. Solar in a household that is on grid (hydro) serves to distribute collection (feed grid) or distribute collection and store a buffer to reduce demand on grid. Few households in residential communities run 100% off grid on alternative energy.

Tesla is simply leveraging their existing expertise to branch out to a new and potentially huge market. Beating both GM with the same general technology in the Chevy Volt, and possibly Ford with the C-Max hybrid or Prius or.... A little math says 100 homes could store 1 Mw of power. The down side of this 1 Mw of stored power would be? What? Expand that to 1/3 of houses or ~44.3 million x 10 Kwh and your talking some real juice and a very large market.

If the technology works and gets refined to improve with each generation Tesla just positioned themselves to be the leader in a market of 44.3 million potential installations. The early 10# mobile telephones in shoulder bags and 25# portable computers look nothing like our smart phones today but they certainly got the ball moving in that direction.

[RogerDat]

In case one wanted to read the specifics of the cases of electric vehicle including Tesla that have been involved in fires related to the battery packs.

Plug-in electric vehicle fire incidents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seems like an infrequent situation that involved collision or impact with something that busted the battery compartment. Think if you hit a trailer hitch at highway speeds something bad might happen. If it happens to your gas tank or fuel line any fire will be much worse.

I have a greater potential fire risk in the gas can for running the mower, or the assorted spray paints, solvents, lubricants, and cleaning solutions in my garage. Generator is a gas can sitting on a hot running engine. Potential risk is always the combination of how bad it could get and how likely is it to happen. Good design and safe operation reduce the risk. However the safety gas can with the kid proof latch can go suck a lemon. Only safer if one has 3 hands to safely manage pouring the can.

BTW - for what it is worth my newer car is 10 years old, I worked to help pass the legislation that provides the clean water and lack of acid rain we currently enjoy. I don't know how minimally "most of you" can live but then neither does anyone else. I do know I can live for a fair amount of time out of a rucksack with a tarp. I also know that those members who saw combat in the infantry probably got the minimal living thing covered better than most.

My guess is what you wanted to say was that Tesla solution works for you because you depend less on electricity than many do or the average household does.

[Bob Miller]

Thank you Carol for your post. I too had written one but put it on hold for fear of being kicked off the board or at least put on moderation..


My creds are somewhat less but; I drove my last new vehicle for ten years and sold it to buy another 10 y.o. vehicle, I served on the very first Yosemite Master Plan committee in the 70's and, just for good measure, was happy to have the opportunity to serve my country, as have my forefathers in Korea, WW-II, WW-I, the Civil War (both sides) the war of 1812, and The Revolutionary War, all so we can have and enjoy what we have today.

[Mike Magee]

I believe that even the 7 kWh battery would require far more solar panels to recharge completely than one would want to carry with a FG trailer.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

I believe that even the 7 kWh battery would require far more solar panels to recharge completely than one would want to carry with a FG trailer.

It got my attention because I could use solar panels and a generator to store enough power to run the ac for a few hours at night when generators are not allowed. It's too expensive now but the day is coming.

What would it take to charge the 7 kWh? Would 750 watts of solar panels do it? (In summer)

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by honda03842

"... The planet will survive just fine as it has for a few billion years. I often think human ego suggests that we're in charge of the earth, I'm afraid it's not so. Nature can create chaos in a day.

Well said. Reminds me of an old comedy skit that I hadn't seen in years - George Carlin "Saving the Planet". It's on YouTube if anyone is curious. (WARNING: contains typical George Carlin vulgar language, so if you fear being offended, don't watch the video.)

[Carol H]

Here is what I think

[Steve in NY]

Not to change the subject, but if you are heating with oil or propane and cooling with electric, put Geo-thermal in now. For most locations, its a no brainer. I put it in two years ago and I have recouped 1/3 of its cost and the house is warmer and in the summer more comfortable. I am eying solar next. Sadly, I don't think many change for the environment, but for the economics. I am hopeful for Tesla. I believe it is going to be an independent who challenges the establishement.

[honda03842]

Steve,

Actually the environment is doing pretty well. I read an award winning book by a Yale professor on New England's environment covering the 1700-1800's.

New England was virtually clear cut for farmland and wood. Deer were virtually non existent. I never saw a wild turkey in NE until I was almost 50, now turkey, deer and moose are every where. We live in a beach community of 1/6th acre lots and have had moose in our neighborhood.

We used to live in a Geodesic dome, 50 feet in diameter. Once we intentionally tried to find it from a small plane, almost impossible. Trees every where and growing faster than ever with all the CO2 in the air.

The rivers and skies are both cleaner.

We have driven much of North America and are always amazed by how much unoccupied space there is, good thing because people are clammering to get here.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Steve in NY

Not to change the subject, but if you are heating with oil or propane and cooling with electric, put Geo-thermal in now. .

Yup, our Provincial government is offering homeowners grants for those who make the switch to Geothermal.

We have a small city close to me has put in their own Geo Thermal system running under the streets, about ten years ago and any new residential towers and business are required to tap into it.

[honda03842]

Carol, What city is that?

[Carol H]

The City of North Vancouver - its a small city located in the centre of the much larger District of North Vancouver (were I am). We are known to be just a tab green around here ;-)

The city has a webpage on the subject. Lonsdale Energy Corporation - City of North Vancouver

[Ron Merritt]

I think all of you have missed the presentation. This device is basically for load shifting. Charge it when energy is cheap, use the power from it when energy is expensive. In many markets (but not all) the price of electricity varies by the time of day. That savings is how you get a payback on this device. The time periods are relatively short - so 4 or 5 hours use is all that is needed.

To equate this to batteries you'd put in your RV, it's around 800 amp hours. That would be quite expensive in Lithium Ion's, especially when you include the costs of the included converter/charger, monitoring and liquid cooling systems. Go to SmartBattery.com and you'll see just a 100 amp hour battery with just the monitoring circuitry is $1299.

So the breakthru here is the Tesla GigaFactory. They are going to start churning out cheaper and cheaper high grade lithium batteries. This is only the start - they already have plans for even more factories.

Could this device be used in an RV? I imagine it could in something large enough to house it. Dimensions preclude it in our eggs. The capacity is surely large enough to run an RV for a long time, but solar charging would take a considerable amount of panels to do it quickly. In RV's like my B-Class, the alternator or generator could recharge it pretty quickly.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Ron Merritt

I.
Could this device be used in an RV? I imagine it could in something large enough to house it. Dimensions preclude it in our eggs. The capacity is surely large enough to run an RV for a long time, but solar charging would take a considerable amount of panels to do it quickly. In RV's like my B-Class, the alternator or generator could recharge it pretty quickly.

I believe it can be used either inside or out, so maybe it could be mounted on the front of the trailer in an upright position. If you had a battery like this installed, you wouldn't need your regular battery(s) and only need 1 propane tank (for those with 2).

[Ron Merritt]

I was thinking that it could be mounted on the underbelly of a trailer. But it would have to be protected from the cold, as you cannot charge lithiums below 32 degrees F without damaging them.

On an Oliver, probably not a problem as there is the fiberglass hull and the aluminum frame crossmembers to support it.

But then the point is probably mute anyways - we already have a dedicated battery compartment that holds 440 amp hours of batteries. I've never gotten even down to 75% yet.